playing with a pick is faster - fact or fiction?

[Deedee]

5 hours ago, MrDaveTheBass said:

This is weird: When I play with a pick, I can sing at the same time. If I try to sing whilst playing the same line with my fingers, my mouth doesn't open, and my face gurns about like I'm having a stroke. Who'd have thought moving two fingers took up so much brain power?

Snap.  I find that I can sing and play better with a pick.  Something to do with the detachment from the bass that seems to make it a bit easier.  Different strokes eh!

[martthebass]

58 minutes ago, Deedee said:

Snap.  I find that I can sing and play better with a pick.  Something to do with the detachment from the bass that seems to make it a bit easier.  Different strokes eh!

I’m the other way around Dan....if I use a pick my BVs go to crap...go figure

[Marvin]

I can't play fast and I can't play with a pick... 😎

[Cato]

I play bass fingerstyle.

I always assumed that I can play bass with a pick because I play guitar with a pick.

This thread inspired me to actually try playing bass with a pick for the first time in about a decade.

Turns out I'm really bad at it.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Cato

[BreadBin]

This is possibly the most interesting thread on here right now, and not that it were needed, proves beyond a doubt that we are all different! 

[SpondonBassed]

I've only recently been applying myself to double thumbing as a technique in itself.

I've not yet got it down to my satisfaction but it helps me to get a better feel with some of the lines I practice.  I'd imagine it to be as fast as playing with a plectrum when done by qualified adults under the guidance of the local safety elf just as soon as he receives the risk assessments signed off in triplicate.  I can see why MK uses insulating tape.  It's a technique that requires toughness and stamina when used consistently

It's never going to have the clack attack of a plec but it's good to have the knack never the less.  *Try saying that out loud with a gob full of granola.

*Mild choking hazard and strong expletives to be expected.

[Akio Dāku]

I regularly use both and I think it's hard to argue a mechanical advantage is gained with either speed wise. Plus both are reliant on the the individuals technical facility; so I think the optimal position to be in, IMO, is to be able to execute any musical idea you have with any technique. Then you choose the techniques you implement based on the timbre they provide and not because of a limitation you have as a player.

[BreadBin]

24 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

It's never going to have the clack attack of a plec but it's good to have the knack never the less.  *Try saying that out loud with a gob full of granola.

*Mild choking hazard and strong expletives to be expected.

Clack attack?  Wasn't that a disco group?

[SpondonBassed]

8 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

Clack attack?  Wasn't that a disco group?

"Clack attack" is the family friendly term for an infestation of crab lice I believe.

I once thought about going to a fancy dress disco with my knackers made up like mirror balls but my other half said it was far too subtle so I went as Boris Johnson instead.

[Brother Jones]

4 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I've only recently been applying myself to double thumbing as a technique in itself.

I've not yet got it down to my satisfaction but it helps me to get a better feel with some of the lines I practice.  I'd imagine it to be as fast as playing with a plectrum when done by qualified adults under the guidance of the local safety elf just as soon as he receives the risk assessments signed off in triplicate.  I can see why MK uses insulating tape.  It's a technique that requires toughness and stamina when used consistently

It's never going to have the clack attack of a plec but it's good to have the knack never the less.  *Try saying that out loud with a gob full of granola.

*Mild choking hazard and strong expletives to be expected.

I'm not 100% that MK double thumbed, at least in his heyday. That triplet speed is more left hand patting. Could be wrong though...

Personally I learned to play with a pick, but haven't used one for at least 20 years. I was lucky enough about 18 months in to learn fingerstyle with three fingers instead of two, which means that 16ths or even 32nds are not that challenging; whereas I suspect the issue with a pick for me at least would be consistency.

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, Brother Jones said:

I'm not 100% that MK double thumbed, at least in his heyday. That triplet speed is more left hand patting. Could be wrong though...

Personally I learned to play with a pick, but haven't used one for at least 20 years. I was lucky enough about 18 months in to learn fingerstyle with three fingers instead of two, which means that 16ths or even 32nds are not that challenging; whereas I suspect the issue with a pick for me at least would be consistency.

You could well be right.

My point was that the fleshy side of the thumb and its nail cuticle take a fair bit of punishment if you keep bashing them against the strings.  I suppose it's another reason to consider ultra-light string gauges.

[Cato]

23 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

You could well be right.

My point was that the fleshy side of the thumb and its nail cuticle take a fair bit of punishment if you keep bashing them against the strings.  I suppose it's another reason to consider ultra-light string gauges.

If you're using roundwounds I don't think a lighter gauge would make much difference, it's still going be like running the back of your thumb up and down a nail file.

Flats would be less abrasive but you probably wouldn't get the sound you want.

There's no shame in the electrical tape, I've seen countless pros using it over the years.

I use it myself when I periodically restart my efforts to get good at advanced slap techniques.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Cato

[Chris2112]

I was very snobby about playing with a pick for a long time. I have focused so intently on fingerstyle dexterity that I left the pick for several years. It was Anthony Jackson that brought me back to the pick, along with the notion that whatever suits the song best is the best approach. I still play fingerstyle about 95% of the time. 

 

I find the pick useful for odd rhythmic groupings that repeat over one string. Or, slightly off time patterns. I can nail the quantised synth bass line in 'Lonely Town's by Brandon Flowers easier with a pick because the 'up/down' motion feels more natural there than alternately plucking with the right hand. But in terms of outright speed over complex patterns, fingers wins for me. I couldn't play bebop lead lines with a pick and good right hand consistency and time is a great skill to work on, reaching for the pick to make a hard song easier is not something I would typically do. 

[rushbo]

This thread is way more interesting than I thought it would be!

I started off as a pick player, because when I bought (or should I say, mom and dad bought) my first bass, I nervously said "yes" when the salesman asked me if I wanted a plectrum to go with the amp, lead and strap he'd informed my horrified parents that I simply must have.  That phase lasted for years until I joined my first band and I started to experiment with fingerstyle.

I use both techniques today, but I prefer fingerstyle as it suits my slightly busy/funky style. I'll reach for a pick if I need to play a fast, simple line with lots of repetition - a Ramones tune for example. I'd struggle to play that consistently with my fingers. I'd never be able to play "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick"  well with a pick as crossing strings so rapidly would result in a bit of a plectrum based car crash.

I love digging in with a pick and playing fast, melodic lines with my fingers. I can play equally fast both ways, but it's a different kind of fast, if you get my meaning...

[SpondonBassed]

8 hours ago, rushbo said:

...I use both techniques today, but I prefer fingerstyle as it suits my slightly busy/funky style. I'll reach for a pick if I need to play a fast, simple line with lots of repetition - a Ramones tune for example. I'd struggle to play that consistently with my fingers. I'd never be able to play "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick"  well with a pick as crossing strings so rapidly would result in a bit of a plectrum based car crash...

That's a very good example for this topic.

Does any bass player succeed in playing Rhythm Stick with a plectrum?  That would serve well as an answer to the question posed by the OP.

Edited June 11, 2018 by SpondonBassed

[xgsjx]

I find certain songs I can play faster with plectrum & others faster with fingers.  I tend to choose which one is going to give the sound I want for the song.

I can play Rhythm Stick with a plectrum, but it doesn't sound right.

9 hours ago, rushbo said:

I use both techniques today, but I prefer fingerstyle as it suits my slightly busy/funky style. I'll reach for a pick if I need to play a fast, simple line with lots of repetition - a Ramones tune for example. I'd struggle to play that consistently with my fingers. I'd never be able to play "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick"  well with a pick as crossing strings so rapidly would result in a bit of a plectrum based car crash.

I love digging in with a pick and playing fast, melodic lines with my fingers. I can play equally fast both ways, but it's a different kind of fast, if you get my meaning...

I'm surprised you can't string skip with a plectrum.  I started out pretty much the same as you & now mostly play finger style (though still have a couple of songs in the set that require said bit of plastic).  Practise.  Rhythm Stick is a good number for getting plectrum playing up to speed (I do the first note as an upstroke).

Edited June 11, 2018 by xgsjx

[No lust in Jazz]

2 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

That's a very good example for this topic.

Does any bass player succeed in playing Rhythm Stick with a plectrum?  That would serve well as an answer to the question posed by the OP.

Yes I did - we gigged it for a couple of years.

Donna Lee is tough(er)

Edited June 11, 2018 by No lust in Jazz

[SpondonBassed]

4 hours ago, No lust in Jazz said:

Yes I did - we gigged it for a couple of years.

Donna Lee is tough(er)

I'd like to have heard that.  Have you any recordings of it?

[No lust in Jazz]

7 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I'd like to have heard that.  Have you any recordings of it?

Sorry, I don't

[Monkey Steve]

On 06/06/2018 at 23:36, paul_c2 said:

I think its the same speed achievable (with familiarity of each....), and here's why:

If you play with a pick, each up and down of (say) the index finger produces 2 notes - the upstroke and downstroke of the pick.

If you play with fingers, then each up movement of the finger produces a note, and while that finger is going down again (ready for the next 'up'), the middle finger produces a note. So its, effectively, a very similar movement which determines the maximum speed.

In theory playing with 3 fingers would be 1 1/2 times quicker still, if you could develop the technique to the proficiency of playing fingerstyle with 2 fingers. But in practice I personally hardly ever use 3 fingers, so I can't play at 1 1/2 times the speed of 2 finger playing. Maybe a bit quicker, but any quicker and its too rough/out of time to be practicable. I might be able to learn if needed, and I've no doubt that others can and do master this.

I don't think this stands up, because the mechanics are completely different

Playing with a pick means only moving your wrist, and with only very limited movement at that, whereas finger style is moving a whole different set of muscles

[xgsjx]

Have you tried holding your index finger between your thumb & hole finger & using it like a pick?

 

[Russ]

Probably about 90% fingerstyle, 10% pick these days. Once I shed that 'bass snob' attitude to using a pick, I threw myself into it and got quite good with one in the end. 

There's an articulation and tone to the notes that you get with a pick you can't get any other way, and it's worth knowing how to use one just for those moments. 

I have been working on an alternate technique for some of the pick stuff I play though, as there's a few songs I play where I would play part of the song pickstyle, and the rest fingerstyle, and I didn't want to keep reaching into my pocket for the pick.   I keep my thumbnails long, then I play the downbeats with the thumbnail, then the rest with fingers (ie, thumb-2-3-4, repeat). It's a twangier and less complicated version (ie, less fingers involved) of the Matt Garrison technique that I've adapted for my own purposes, basically. 

[Dad3353]

37 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

Have you tried holding your index finger between your thumb & hole finger & using it like a pick?

That's exactly how I play, both bass and guitar, when a pick is required. I've tried, many times, to hold a pick, but it has never ended happily, so I revert to my built-in 'finger pick'. I play finger style too, of course (bass and guitar...).
Over the decades, I've developed my own playing style, inspired by and imitative of the 'greats'. It's quite simple: I throw my fingers at the strings (both hands...), and hope to be lucky. The 'greats' use this very technique; they're just a bit luckier than I am. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Dad3353

[xgsjx]

11 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

That's exactly how I play, both bass and guitar, when a pick is required. I've tried, many times, to hold a pick, but it has never ended happily, so I revert to my built-in 'finger pick'. I play finger style too, of course (bass and guitar...).
Over the decades, I've developed my own playing style, inspired by and imitative of the 'greats'. It's quite simple: I throw my fingers at the strings (both hands...), and hope to be lucky. The 'greats' use this very technique; they're just a bit luckier than I am. 

Have you considered using a drumstick?  A nice variation on slap stylee.

[Dad3353]

17 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

Have you considered using a drumstick?  A nice variation on slap style.

S'been done; a few years ago now I saw a TV programme with, as guests, the drummer and bassist from The Wailers. Reggae, of course; at one moment the drummer came out from behind the kit to start tapping with his sticks on the bass strings whilst his colleague fretted. I wasn't impressed enough to adopt this technique; in fact I thought it rather rubbish, to be honest. Not their highest moment, I'm afraid.