DHC Bass 1x12 Cabs

[Hodge]

Does anybody know anything about, or have any experience of, these cabs?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DHC-Bass-Lightweight-1x12-Tweeter-Bass-Guitar-Cab-Hand-Made-in-the-UK/323270158655?hash=item4b4467293f:g:FToAAOSwHLFa7fCA

 

The bloke says he's had good feedback from purchasers of his first run, but I haven't managed to find any mention of them online, other than these ebay listings.

 

I'm kind of torn between being skeptical to the point of dismissal, and intrigued to the point of "at that price it might be worth giving them a try".

Any experience and/or opinions?

Cheers.

[Jack]

You could pm him and ask what speaker is in it then you could plug the box into winisd and make an educated guess.

[Hodge]

Oh aye, could do.

He also lists a £200 version that has a 12"  Eminence Beta.

I'll see if I can get an idea based on that.

Meanwhile, any direct experience anyone might have would still be handy.

Ta for the suggestion.

 

Edit: Well, I can't remember the last time I sat looking at so many graphs, the meaning of which was so utterly lost on me.  At least there's a large Help section: Looks like I have some homework to do.😀

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Hodge

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I have serious doubts that he knows what he's doing. For instance:

The two bass vents act as side handles. They are positioned to let cooling air flow to the speaker. On stage they send low frequency sideways which doesn’t muddle the sound you hear.

The output of ports is 100% omni-directional. For that matter from a cab of that size the direct output from the cone is omni-directional below roughly 250Hz. 🤔

There are a number of other issues with his claims, but this one alone is enough to convince me that you should probably avoid them.

 

[Hodge]

Thanks Bill,  I have to say, that bit made even me blink when I first read it, and I don't know all that much about the engineering of speaker cabs.

I guess it's just a standard case of "if it seems too good to be true...."

 

Still, if nothing else it's spurred me to read a bit more about how all this stuff works (including not a few posts of your own on here), so it's not all bad.

Cheers.

 

[Jack]

With product descriptions I always wonder how much of it is bad engineering (likely lots of it!) or just marketing speak (probably just as likely). He's put the ports on the side so they make handles (hey, it's a good idea and Bill does a well-executed and well-explained version in his SLAP) and then thought to himself "how can I spin this so people don't think it's weird?" and then written something that isn't technically a lie so that the great unwashed accept it, think it's novel, and buy his cabinets.

 

If I was going to make a bass cab I'd make a 4x10" and a 1x15", because outside of Basschat that's all I really see around here. Then I'd fill the 4x10" marketing descriptions with terms like 'punchy' because everyone knows a 4x10" is punchier than a 1x15" and the 1x15" would be all 'bassy' and 'low-end'. The terms 'comb filtering' and 'bad off-axis response' don't really sit too well on an ebay advert. This is why Ashdown will have outsold all of the boutique makers that we care about on here put together this year despite the fact that regardless of preference a BFM, Greenboy, Barefaced, Audiokinesis, etc etc etc cab is inarguably technically better.

 

It's sad.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Jack

[Phil Starr]

I've no quarrel with using the ports as handles. Ports do have their own resonances and putting them on the sides or backs means those resonances will be less audible, though whether that is a significant factor I doubt. It's quite a clever idea I suppose and it's rare to see anything novel, I haven't seen this before. The piezo tweeter is one of those cheap things that a lot of people switch out of their bass cabs, neither here nor there really, some people like them as giving a little more top. 

Basically this is someone trying to start a business building cabs and it's a pretty straightforward 12" cab fitted with an Eminence driver, the cheap one fitted with the Alpha isn't going to sound too great but the one with the Beta, well it's a nice driver at that price point and fitted to a lot of commercial cabs. You could buy a lot of used 112's for that but who knows you might have the next Barefaced

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

4 hours ago, Jack said:

 He's put the ports on the side so they make handles (hey, it's a good idea and Bill does a well-executed and well-explained version in his SLAP) and then thought to himself "how can I spin this so people don't think it's weird?" and then written something that isn't technically a lie so that the great unwashed accept it, think it's novel, and buy his cabinets

I can't speak to his motives, but I can speak to the engineering. Since a ported cab needs ports and it needs handles it's practical to combine the two where it makes engineering sense. In a bass cab it doesn't. For a port to double as a handle it can't have a duct. Without a duct the port area must be quite small to tune the cab low enough for bass. The problem is that too little port area leads to chuffing noise from the port, while a non-ducted port large enough to  not chuff can't tune the cab low enough for bass. I use port handles only in PA tops that are tuned much higher than bass cabs, as those tops are meant to be used with subs handling the lows.

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Lozz196]

11 hours ago, Jack said:

 The terms 'comb filtering' and 'bad off-axis response' don't really sit too well on an ebay advert. This is why Ashdown will have outsold all of the boutique makers that we care about on here put together this year despite the fact that regardless of preference a BFM, Greenboy, Barefaced, Audiokinesis, etc etc etc cab is inarguably technically better.

 

It's sad.

It could be that a good many of us really like Ashdown gear, Jack. I`ve been through (many of) the technically superior lightweight cabs but have found I prefer the sound of Ashdown cabs to any of them.

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

It could be that a good many of us really like Ashdown gear, Jack. I`ve been through (many of) the technically superior lightweight cabs but have found I prefer the sound of Ashdown cabs to any of them.

I like the sound of their cabs too. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that they're larger than many tend to be for a given driver size, giving the driver a chance to work properly. I had a 1x15 Ashdown once that was a bit of a beast. The driver blew (my fault - ran it with a bridged 800w power amp) and I replaced it with something pretty mediocre just to be able to sell the cab and it sounded really decent.

[lemmywinks]

On 15/06/2018 at 10:19, Phil Starr said:

The piezo tweeter is one of those cheap things that a lot of people switch out of their bass cabs, neither here nor there really, some people like them as giving a little more top. 

Piezo-free version is a tenner cheaper:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DHC-Bass-Lightweight-1x12-Bass-Guitar-Cab-Hand-Made-in-the-UK/323270157922?hash=item4b44672662:g:nAgAAOSwC6da9KLO

On 15/06/2018 at 10:19, Phil Starr said:

.....but who knows you might have the next Barefaced

Well he's already sidestepped the handle issues!

 

Seeing as there's not much in the way of lightweight cheap cabs (maybe the Eden EX at £199?) they might make a good entry point for someone on a budget who wants a compact cab or two. Who's going to take the plunge and order one then?

 

Oh and no speakons = ☹️

Edited June 16, 2018 by lemmywinks

[Jack]

21 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

It could be that a good many of us really like Ashdown gear, Jack. I`ve been through (many of) the technically superior lightweight cabs but have found I prefer the sound of Ashdown cabs to any of them.

Me too. My first real amp was an Ashdown MAG full stack and if I had to buy an amp tomorrow it would be the ABM rack mount head. The cabs are too heavy for me but they do sound great.

 

On 15/06/2018 at 15:00, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

I can't speak to his motives, but I can speak to the engineering. Since a ported cab needs ports and it needs handles it's practical to combine the two where it makes engineering sense. In a bass cab it doesn't. For a port to double as a handle it can't have a duct. Without a duct the port area must be quite small to tune the cab low enough for bass. The problem is that too little port area leads to chuffing noise from the port, while a non-ducted port large enough to  not chuff can't tune the cab low enough for bass. I use port handles only in PA tops that are tuned much higher than bass cabs, as those tops are meant to be used with subs handling the lows.

 

I noticed that your slap design didn't have ducts. I'd have assumed that his bass cabs would have but I suppose you're right they wouldn't be strong enough. I didn't understand the science behind it though. I mean, I still don't, but I might be a little closer so thanks anyway!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

You mean SLA Pro? The ports aren't ducted because the cab is tuned to 95Hz, for maximum sensitivity and output above 85Hz. That's perfect for mating with subs to handle below 100Hz in a full range PA system, or for use without subs when there's no low frequency content. You'd never want a bass cab tuned that high.

[LukeFRC]

On 15/06/2018 at 13:00, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

I can't speak to his motives, but I can speak to the engineering. Since a ported cab needs ports and it needs handles it's practical to combine the two where it makes engineering sense. In a bass cab it doesn't. For a port to double as a handle it can't have a duct. Without a duct the port area must be quite small to tune the cab low enough for bass. The problem is that too little port area leads to chuffing noise from the port, while a non-ducted port large enough to  not chuff can't tune the cab low enough for bass. I use port handles only in PA tops that are tuned much higher than bass cabs, as those tops are meant to be used with subs handling the lows.

 

Any bodger can download some cab software and have a semi-literate guess at a cab design* - but seeing the software I've seen either lets you spec square or round ports I would just be sceptical that someone would have measured the area of the shape of handle shape the ports accurately....
 

 

 

 

*and hopefully realise quite quickly that there's more to it that bodging it...

[RichardH]

Can't imagine it's that lightweight - non neo speaker, 18mm ply.....

[Mykesbass]

1 hour ago, RichardH said:

Can't imagine it's that lightweight - non neo speaker, 18mm ply.....

I had the Fender Rumble V3 112 that had ceramic speakers - very light, and very sturdy.

[lemmywinks]

Weight listed as 14kg, 1-2kg heavier than a Barefaced 1x12.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The Alpha 12 weighs 2.4 kg, the Deltalite II  2512 2.3 kg, so neo doesn't always mean lighter weight. A Delta Pro 12 is 7.4 kg, so that's the price/performance range where neo would save weight. Still, the most weight savings come from using well braced 12mm plywood, rather than sparsely, if braced at all, 18mm.

[Hodge]

I think the main problem with these speakers is that, while the price is undoubtedly low, it's not quite tempting enough to take a chance, just to see.

When, with a little patience and dilligence, you can find stuff like a pair of Hartke HD112 for £220 a piece in the marketplace here (Waynesworld's sale) it seems a far safer bet to spend the little extra (only 20 quid extra in relation to the "top end" of the DHC range).

At least you get to check out some reviews, opinions and videos to have a reasonable idea what to expect.

As for possibility of stumbling across "the next Barefaced": I bought a Barefaced Big One many years ago and when I did it was a decision based on reading loads of stuff on here from Alex and people who had tried and tested them, people about whose knowledge I could make a reasonable judgement.

I was reasonably sure what I was getting.

 

It's a totally different proposition to take a chance on something so completely unknown, for the sake of saving a few quid against more established used gear.

If this bloke's stuff is really as good as he makes out, he needs to do a lot more in the way of marketing if he wants to tempt people into taking a punt.

[RandomBass]

I'm tempted, to find out what the deal is. However collection only is not worth my while to be honest.

[Hodge]

10 minutes ago, RandomBass said:

However collection only is not worth my while to be honest.

...Not to mention probably a 60 odd quid round-trip fuel bill from you to Walsall.

That takes the something of the shine off the price tag.

[RichardH]

17 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The Alpha 12 weighs 2.4 kg, the Deltalite II  2512 2.3 kg, so neo doesn't always mean lighter weight. A Delta Pro 12 is 7.4 kg, so that's the price/performance range where neo would save weight. Still, the most weight savings come from using well braced 12mm plywood, rather than sparsely, if braced at all, 18mm.

I'd forgotten the speaker was an Alpha.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I don't know if it's an Alpha, but at that price it wouldn't be anything more substantial than that.

[RandomBass]

Taking the model number from one of the eBay pics, and trusting Google, I ended up here...

https://www.avsl.com/product/902.509UK-qs-series-replacement-drivers

If that helps anyone. Could be wrong though, of course.

[lemmywinks]

Looks like it, they're £27 each online:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QTX-902-509-Replacement-Speaker-Driver-for-QS-Series-Speaker-8-Ohm-Impedance-12-/401109577747?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

 

I'm guessing these aren't some miracle driver that outperforms speakers more than double their price then?