Bass synth?

[Ceebass]

On 21/06/2018 at 11:51, Al Krow said:

"Sensible"?? Doesn't that mean you're now a keys rather than a bass player and have to swap instruments mid set to get your desired synth sounds? (Please shoot me down if I am being very dim here). Not sure that is going to work 'live'.

Have a look at this interview with Alex Al- he plays Moog and electric at the same time on some of the songs on This Is It😮

https://www.bassplayer.com/artists/men-in-the-mirror-the-bassists-of-michael-jackson-how-alex-al-and-his-predecessors-pumped-up-the-king-of-pop

Loads of pop guys are doing this these days!

Edited June 23, 2018 by Ceebass

[xgsjx]

On 21/06/2018 at 11:51, Al Krow said:

"Sensible"?? Doesn't that mean you're now a keys rather than a bass player and have to swap instruments mid set to get your desired synth sounds? (Please shoot me down if I am being very dim here). Not sure that is going to work 'live'.

And a keyboard synth certainly wouldn't fit on my pedal board...

 

I play bass through octave, dirt, filter & chorus for many synth sounds, but I also have a Roli Rise playing either the Moog Model D app on the iPhone or connected to the macbook playing several other synths.  It's not a problem to switch between instruments mid song.

[xgsjx]

.

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by xgsjx

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, xgsjx said:

I play bass through octave, dirt, filter & chorus for many synth sounds, but I also have a Roli Rise playing either the Moog Model D app on the iPhone or connected to the macbook playing several other synths.  It's not a problem for me to switch between instruments mid song.

Missing words inserted 😜 I'm just happy to make it to the end of a song on an electric bass unscathed - you're obviously a more versatile musician than me Mr xgsjx! And also a FAR better Sprocket Inspector, to boot.

What's your current set up in terms of the pedals you're using for octave + dirt + filter + chorus to get your synth sounds and what order do you have them in your chain?

2 hours ago, Ceebass said:

Loads of pop guys are doing this these days!

Are we talking about 'pro' musicians mostly here?

[xgsjx]

30 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Missing words inserted 😜 I'm just happy to make it to the end of a song on an electric bass unscathed - you're obviously a more versatile musician than me Mr xgsjx! And also a FAR better Sprocket Inspector, to boot.

What's your current set up in terms of the pedals you're using for octave + dirt + filter + chorus to get your synth sounds and what order do you have them in your chain?

😂  I don't know about me making it unscathed either!

Current set up is MXR BOD > PSK SDS-2 (80s distortion) > SA BEF Pro (with hot hand) > Boss CE-2 chorus.  I'm not getting use of the HH in the current band (they're "Classic Crock").

[Al Krow]

20 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

😂  I don't know about me making it unscathed either!

Current set up is MXR BOD > PSK SDS-2 (80s distortion) > SA BEF Pro (with hot hand) > Boss CE-2 chorus.  I'm not getting use of the HH in the current band (they're "Classic Crock").

What's very reassuring is that all of your pedals are relatively "standard" so I'm hoping to get similar levels of synth goodness with my kit COG T16 > SA Aftershock > SA Manta. 

I do have quite a few BCers raving about gated fuzz for use instead of a normal 'dirt' for synth emulation and I'm tempted to give this a whirl also, in the near future. 

[dannybuoy]

Be sure to try the COG after the dirt also. I like an octaver going into a mild overdrive to fatten it up a bit, but prefer a more extreme gated fuzz to come before the octave so that you have a clean sub octave under that raspy fuzz.

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Be sure to try the COG after the dirt also. I like an octaver going into a mild overdrive to fatten it up a bit, but prefer a more extreme gated fuzz to come before the octave so that you have a clean sub octave under that raspy fuzz.

Yeh - will give that a go. thanks.

I find "normal" dirt > octave is not a patch on octave > dirt where I'm looking for a 'classic octave dirt' purely 'cos the T16 much prefers a clean signal to latch onto to provide a "clean" octave at the start of the signal chain; but will definitely be interesting to try your suggestion of a gated fuzz in front of the octave where the goal is a synth sound.

[xgsjx]

16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

What's very reassuring is that all of your pedals are relatively "standard" so I'm hoping to get similar levels of synth goodness with my kit COG T16 > SA Aftershock > SA Manta. 

I do have quite a few BCers raving about gated fuzz for use instead of a normal 'dirt' for synth emulation and I'm tempted to give this a whirl also, in the near future. 

I personally prefer an expression pedal over the HH.  I feel I have more control whilst I'm playing.  I used to have a Moog MF-101 LPF, which is one pedal I wish I hadn't sold.  It just adds so much tone.  I loved those who said "Oooh, it's not true bypass, it'll be a tone sucker", but I never corrected them, I thought they'd be better off with what they have.  lol

Chorus at the end of the path is good for movement.  Gives a similar sound to having 2 oscillators.  Better still is if you can split the signal.  Put octave through to the chorus & then the other side put your dirt & filter, then sum them back together.

[Al Krow]

29 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

I personally prefer an expression pedal over the HH.  I feel I have more control whilst I'm playing.  I used to have a Moog MF-101 LPF, which is one pedal I wish I hadn't sold.  It just adds so much tone.  I loved those who said "Oooh, it's not true bypass, it'll be a tone sucker", but I never corrected them, I thought they'd be better off with what they have.  lol

Chorus at the end of the path is good for movement.  Gives a similar sound to having 2 oscillators.  Better still is if you can split the signal.  Put octave through to the chorus & then the other side put your dirt & filter, then sum them back together.

That sounds great. Are you up for uploading a couple of clips? Be really interesting to hear how your set-up sounds both with and and without chorus. 

[xgsjx]

24 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

That sounds great. Are you up for uploading a couple of clips? Be really interesting to hear how your set-up sounds both with and and without chorus. 

I've just moved house & working every day until Thursday (including today), but as soon as I get a chance, I shall.
Better still...  I'll use it for next month's compo comp. 

Here's my previous set up (along with some other bassists), I'm the one wearing the red t-shirt with the yellow background & the pedals are on floorboards...
 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by xgsjx

[Al Krow]

On 21/06/2018 at 11:22, pete.young said:

Or do the sensible thing and buy a cheap keyboard synth.

Was passing by Denmark St earlier today. I've been converted: if you want a proper synth sound then get a synth! I'm guessing there isn't a dedicated bass synth pedal out there that comes close in terms of 'synthiness' or versatility to this:

 

[Quatschmacher]

33 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Was passing by Denmark St earlier today. I've been converted: if you want a proper synth sound then get a synth! I'm guessing there isn't a dedicated bass synth pedal out there that comes close in terms of 'synthiness' or versatility to this:

 

The Pro 2 is a monster digital/analogue hybrid synth. 

[BigRedX]

On 24/06/2018 at 12:22, xgsjx said:

 

 

It's all very impressive until you realise that two keyboardists could do the whole lot in real time and more accurately too.

[Ceebass]

On 23/06/2018 at 16:47, Al Krow said:

Are we talking about 'pro' musicians mostly here?

Not necessarily... It is quite common for guys doing 'the big time' pop gigs to double, but I don't think that should stop anyone else from doing it! Letting your bass hang on it's strap while you press keys is no more or less complicated than stomping pedals while playing, in my book at least... 

Anyway, now that you've been converted to the Church of Dave Smith you'll just have to do it!

I've been using MainStage for all my live synth bass needs- spend a few hours playing with the stock synth engines and you can get some great timbres.

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Ceebass said:

Not necessarily... It is quite common for guys doing 'the big time' pop gigs to double, but I don't think that should stop anyone else from doing it! Letting your bass hang on it's strap while you press keys is no more or less complicated than stomping pedals while playing, in my book at least... 

Anyway, now that you've been converted to the Church of Dave Smith you'll just have to do it!

I've been using MainStage for all my live synth bass needs- spend a few hours playing with the stock synth engines and you can get some great timbres.

Ok guys I'm at risk at of totally derailing this thread (apologies to the OP) buuut....I was blown away by the capability and versatility of the Dave Smith Pro2. In or around that price bracket, what's better?

[xgsjx]

Moog sub 37.  Not better, not worse, different. 

Electron analogue keys is worth a look too. 

[Quatschmacher]

8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Ok guys I'm at risk at of totally derailing this thread (apologies to the OP) buuut....I was blown away by the capability and versatility of the Dave Smith Pro2. In or around that price bracket, what's better?

 

7 hours ago, xgsjx said:

Moog sub 37.  Not better, not worse, different. 

I agree.

Other things to look at in that bracket are the Moog Sub(sequent) 37 (£1200) which has two VCOs plus sub and a two slot mod matrix. It’s very hands-on with most stuff immediately to hand. There’s a bit of extra stuff in the menu but it’s easy to navigate.

The Arturia Matrixbrute is amazing and presently can be had for £1400 until July 1st, whereupon it will go up by a few hundred. The has 3 oscillators.  Two of them have 3 basic wave types which have a shape mod and all types can be played at once, per oscillator! This is incredibly powerful. It’s mainly mono but there’s a paraphonic mode which allows 3 notes to be played at once. The routing possibilities on this are immense (as is the Pro 2) but everything is immediately visible and to hand via the 16x16-button matrix (which also doubles as the preset selector (direct access to 256 presets) and the sequencer.

A used Prophet 12 can be had for £1400.

Also check out the DSI Rev 2 and Korg Prologue which are poly synths.

Check the Marc Doty videos on the Pro 2 and Matrixbrute.

For dipping your toe in the synth waters, Korg Monologue, Minilogue and Behringer Model D or Roland SE-02 are all worth considering. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

Just gonna leave this here:

 

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Other things to look at in that bracket are the Moog Sub(sequent) 37 (£1200) which has two VCOs plus sub and a two slot mod matrix. It’s very hands-on with most stuff immediately to hand. There’s a bit of extra stuff in the menu but it’s easy to navigate.

The Arturia Matrixbrute is amazing and presently can be had for £1400 until July 1st, whereupon it will go up by a few hundred. The has 3 oscillators.  Two of them have 3 basic wave types which have a shape mod and all types can be played at once, per oscillator! This is incredibly powerful. It’s mainly mono but there’s a paraphonic mode which allows 3 notes to be played at once. The routing possibilities on this are immense (as is the Pro 2) but everything is immediately visible and to hand via the 16x16-button matrix (which also doubles as the preset selector (direct access to 256 presets) and the sequencer.

A used Prophet 12 can be had for £1400.

Also check out the DSI Rev 2 and Korg Prologue which are poly synths.

Be really interested if you were thinking of getting one of the above, which would be your top 3 choices from the above taking account of versatility and value for money? (I'll maybe focus my initial search on these in the first instance).

[BigRedX]

If you think that Bass guitar GAS is expensive wait until you get seriously into synthesis...

For your first synth it doesn't really matter what you get so long as it has at least two oscillators, Filter, Amp, LFO and two envelope generators. Other than that it's heather you want to be able to play chords or not. Monophonic (one note at a time) will be cheaper, polyphonic will be more versatile. Once you've played with it for a while you'll start to learn what features are important to you and what you can't live without. If you really want to get to grips with synthesis buy something without patch memories, because it will force you into creating your own sounds rather than relying on the presets that are already in there. 

[Quatschmacher]

18 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

If you think that Bass guitar GAS is expensive wait until you get seriously into synthesis...

For your first synth it doesn't really matter what you get so long as it has at least two oscillators, Filter, Amp, LFO and two envelope generators. Other than that it's heather you want to be able to play chords or not. Monophonic (one note at a time) will be cheaper, polyphonic will be more versatile. Once you've played with it for a while you'll start to learn what features are important to you and what you can't live without. If you really want to get to grips with synthesis buy something without patch memories, because it will force you into creating your own sounds rather than relying on the presets that are already in there. 

Yep. I’d recommend the Behringer model D, Roland SE-02 or Korg Monologue as good starting points. Plenty to keep you busy with there.

(Bad internet connection meant I lost the lengthy reply I just wrote).

The gist was, get something simple first. When you find there are modulations you want or sounds you can’t create then look for something more complex.

[Quatschmacher]

One of the best interfaces I’ve seen which combines presets with WYSIWYG is the Moog Little and Slim Phatty which has LED rings around the knobs which show where the current value is. Each of the four knobs has a few buttons which select which parameter is adjusted and the ring displays the value accordingly. Nord Lead 3 has a similar arrangement but it is one-knob-per-function. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Quatschmacher

[xgsjx]

A friend of mine who's an analogue junkie has a fine selection of synths.  He's got a little phatty, which is amazing at bass lines & so easy to play & twiddle knobs.

He's also got an Electron Analogue Keys, sold a Prophet 8 to get a Prophet 12, had a Korg Monologue & MS20 (which he bought another & then later sold again), a Teenage Engineering OP-1 (which is his 2nd) & an Akai MPC.

I need to pay him a visit again soon.

[xgsjx]

6 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Just gonna leave this here:

 

Not watched the video, But that's an Industrial Radio bass.  I believe they're an Australian company.  There's a duo called Men Imitating Machines, the bassist has used one for a few years now.