Would like some advice regarding Octave, synth and other pedalboard building things

[BenR24]

Hi,

So I've begun my journey of creating a pedalboard, so far I have the board, voodoo labs pp2, tech 21 vt bass di, spectracomp, xotic bb bass. I'd love to also add some pedals that will allow me to produce a good synth sound, as well as an octave pedal and chorus for more chord like things. I've delved through many of the pages on these different areas but not necessarily found any clear idea on what works well together with the pedals I have already and what works well regarding the pedals that I'm looking for. 

For info on what I play, I have 5 string Yamaha BB 435 (at the moment) and a Fender Jazz classic 60s MiM. I generally play a mix of more modern music (hence looking for synth like things) to rock (nothing heavy) so I'd like some versatile pedals that would cover this range. 

Thanks for any responses,

Ben

[AJ567]

You have a long and fun journey ahead of you Ben!

Since you mention wanting an octave pedal for chordal things, I'm guessing you have an octave UP pedal in mind. There are basically two classes of octaver - analog and digital - which should be thought of as different things. If you want a clean octave up, you need a digi octaver. For octave down, people generally agree that digital sounds wimpy, while analog is awesome (and can get very synthy). NB analog octave up does exist, but for technical reasons it has more in common with a fuzz effect - you won't get a clear sounding octave-up note. 

A classic combination for synthy sounds is Octave > Dirt > Envelope Filter. Octave can be either digital-up or analog-down. Different flavours... I like using both at the same time ;). Also defo worth playing around with the order of these three effects though.

Xotic BB has you covered for dirt, at least for the time being. Fuzz (especially gated fuzz) can work very well for synthy stuff though, so you might want to add one in due course. 

I personally go Analog Octave Down > Fuzz > Digi Octave Up > Overdrive > Envelope Filter. 

From what it sounds like you are looking for, I would recommend that you buy a digital octave pedal (as per my first point) and envelope filter to begin with. Combined with your BB, these will give you a flavour of what the octave/dirt/envelope combination is all about.

You will probably end up adding an analog octave pretty quickly after that. Followed by a fuzz.

My personal recommendations are as follows -  

DIGITAL OCTAVE: TC Sub'n'up. No-brainer IMO, check my post on page 2 here for why.

ENVELOPE FILTER: More than any other pedal, this really is all down to personal preference and playing style. You will have to try a few. MXR Bass Envelope Filter is a decent starting point. Very popular, and very tweakable so you can get to know what you do and don't like. 

ANALOG OCTAVE: Boss OC2 is the classic, but it has its problems, so a lot of people prefer modern interpretations of this pedal - check out 3leaf Octabvre, MXR Bass Octave deluxe. Those kind of build out from what the OC2 can do as a starting point. Aguilar Octamizer and any of the COG models are very popular as well (but a bit less focused on 'nailing the OC2 thing').

FUZZ: Many many options. For 'synthy' I would start by checking out 3leaf Doom, Darkglass Duality, Zvex Mastotron. 

 

NB there are quite a few all-in-one 'synth' pedals out there. My personal preference is to avoid these, because I feel like I get more versatility out of multiple 'specialist' pedals. I'm also picky so I like to be able to choose each element of the 'synth' signal chain. Perhaps others will chime in with recommendations for 'all in one' pedals though, if you want to go down that route. 

Also, I personally don't like modulation effects, so somebody else will have to chime in for Chorus pedal suggestions! 

[BenR24]

Thats great, thanks so much! Well since this i've carried on researching which hasnt been productive in getting things actually done that I need to... However, i've been looking into the synth signal chains etc and decided to make my next purchases a fuzz, octave and filter. What I had in mind was a octamizer (as i've found one for a good price), a mastotron and possibly a SA Manta as my filter due to seeing a lot about them being versatile on here. 

I did really like the look of a t16 Cog but they seem quite hard to come by and I'm needing to get my board ready to gig before end of next month really so id like to get everything ready prior and use to it also, to find the sounds I like and can use. 

[AJ567]

All solid choices, nice work!

I've tried both the Octamizer and T16, they're both great. Octamizer can go from smooth and natural to growly, and is exceptional for in terms of clean blend options thanks to the tilt EQ on the clean channel.

T16 is a bit more 'synthy' in terms of the OC2-school of 'nintendo'-esque sounds (hope you know what I mean...). Octamizer when set at the 'growly' end of its range is sort of synthy, but in a different way. Overall the Octamizer is a bit more organic sounding/feeling.

Haven't actually tried the Mastotron or SA Manta but they seem like solid choices, as I say.

[BenR24]

Ok thats good then ha.

I'd love a T16 if I could get my hands on one without the wait time to get one made, but I'm unsure if thats possible. I think I can manage without the octave up for now possibly. 

[Quatschmacher]

I’ve been on this path for some time now.

Gated fuzz is a key element as the gating replicates the on/off nature of a synth’s keypress. I’m using a Mastotron, 3Leaf Doom (with a TC Sentry to gate it) and the Emma Octo Nøjs. The latter two are also dynamic octave fuzzes so sound a bit like having 2nd voice/oscillator. The Tech21 Red Ripper is another such dynamic pedal but isn’t gated. (There’s a Chunk Brown Dog gated fuzz in the sale section at the moment which is another good choice.)

Octaver so far I’ve held on to the Octabvre MKII (the Mini is also cool) which is the classic OC-2 type sound, MXR BOD and Emma Octo-Nøjs. The MXR has the best response I’ve played (the Red Witch octave pedals are as responsive - again there’s one on sale right now and an Octabvre II).

Filter I’m finding my Manta is giving the most satisfying results at the moment. It’s not as phat or juicy sounding as my analogue filters but I’ve managed to create some nice presets which work well. My Wonderlove also gets some great sounds but takes a bit more work to dial it in.

Some way to parallel blend the fuzz and octave yields great results as you can keep the octave clean and run both it and the dirt into the filter. I use a Boss LS-2 for this. The Cog T-65 or T-70 allow this with the bonus of an octave up.

A quick and really good combination would be to get the Octo-Nøjs (which does octave down in parallel with fuzzy octave down and gated octave fuzz) and run that into the Manta. There’s a wealth of good sounds to be had from that combination and used you could get both for around £225 in total.

The EHX Bass Microsynth is also worth a look. It’s more limited than the Manta but can do some stuff the Manta can’t. It has octave down, octave up, clean and square wave fuzz all running into a resonant filter. The cool thing about this is the envelope section which works by specifying a start and stop frequency and setting the rate at which the filter sweeps between them. You set the volume threshold at which the envelope is triggered. This means the envelope shape remains uniform regardless of your playing dynamics, which is how synths without velocity sensitivity (Minimoog, Odyssey) and key tracking would work. I find this most noticeable when retriggering fast notes - the Manta ends up staying subby and undefined as it won’t retrigger whereas the BMS will retrigger. Great for fast staccato lines. 

[radiophonic]

I'd echo what @Quatschmacher said about the Okto Nojs. It's the combo I use. Even the gated fuzz side on its own is very synthy - although the gating itself isn't adjustable - and I often run mine into a Boss PS6 and touch of tape delay rather than a filter, for epic Blade Runner synth sounds. 

Edit.  the only thing I will add about the Nojs side of the pedal is that as I understand it, the square wave harmonic octave down will glitch out in the same way that a clean octave down does, so although you kind of get a dual oscillator, both suffer potential tracking failure (in fact it's possible that the tracking fails before the signal is split - not sure about that though). That's been my experience anyway.  If you aren't familiar with analog octavers, they do take some getting used to and you do need to adapt how you play and often where on the neck you play particular notes. Dead spots can wreak havoc so you do need to compromise. IMO it's worth the effort though!

Edited June 29, 2018 by radiophonic

[BenR24]

so would you say that the okto/octabvre is better to go for than the aguilar octamizer? 

Im set on getting a mastotron, and probably will go for a manta 

[Quatschmacher]

Just now, BenR24 said:

so would you say that the okto/octabvre is better to go for than the aguilar octamizer? 

Im set on getting a mastotron, and probably will go for a manta 

The Octabvre and Octo-Nøjs both track better than the Octamizer for me.

The Octamizer has a very full, deep sound with the tone rolled off, very subby and more so than the ON. It has a bit of growl with the filter opened but not as much as the ON has. The growl from the higher harmonics is what will give the filter something to chew on so I prefer that. However, if you’re getting a Mastotron and running it parallel to the Octamizer this will be less of an issue.

I love the characteristic sound of the Octabvre, even on its own.

The ON will certainly give you more options. If you’re only planning on buying one then you’ll get the added bonus of the two extra fuzz circuits which are already in parallel to the octave. I’ve actually ran the ON and Mastotron in parallel into the Manta and it sounds massive.

If you can, I’d suggest trying out all of them and see if you have a preference. If you’re near Sheffield you’re welcome to try mine. I can probably send you a couple of very rough clips of some combinations. 

[BenR24]

I'd love some rough clips of these, that would really help! Unfortunately I'm down south England so not too close. I wont go for the octamizer then, I'll look out for the octabvre, however not seen a ON on sale much. 

 

[Quatschmacher]

6 minutes ago, BenR24 said:

I'd love some rough clips of these, that would really help! Unfortunately I'm down south England so not too close. I wont go for the octamizer then, I'll look out for the octabvre, however not seen a ON on sale much. 

 

There have only been two that I know of. Cam bought one and then sold it on here and it might be the one the other poster above mentioned. The other is mine which I bought new. I’ve been considering selling it as I have the MXR and the Octabvre too and I’m thinking of buying a midibass, but it’s really good and every time I play it I think I should probably keep it.

I’ve pmd you a couple of clips, check your inbox for the google drive links. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Quatschmacher

[BenR24]

yeah just giving them a listen through now, cheers

[BenR24]

Ok so just bought a mastotron. 1 down many to go hah

[Japhet]

I'd check out the TC Electronic Nether for a cheap octaver. Sounds pretty good to me.

[GisserD]

5 hours ago, BenR24 said:

so would you say that the okto/octabvre is better to go for than the aguilar octamizer? 

Im set on getting a mastotron, and probably will go for a manta 

I'm also on the well trodden synth path. And I choose the octamizer all day. 

But it's a very personal thing! 

Pm me if your near Brighton as I have most of the medals mentioned in this thread 

[GisserD]

4 hours ago, BenR24 said:

Ok so just bought a mastotron. 1 down many to go hah

You won't regret that

[lee650]

1 hour ago, GisserD said:

You won't regret that

Definately!! I use one too 😁

[BenR24]

4 hours ago, GisserD said:

I'm also on the well trodden synth path. And I choose the octamizer all day. 

Why would you chose the octamizer over the other similar pedals?

[GisserD]

I think of the The octamizer as a octave signal doubler. The octave sown sounds more like the original signal but at an octave lower... As opposed to a generated synth tone from an oc2 pedal for example. The octamizer has a filter on each side to reduce the harmonic content overlap. 

This means its far more versatile for me and works equally well after other effects. 

Most other oc2 type octavers only work 1st in the chain. S they need a clean signal to get pitch Info, to create the synth tone.... Its a different animal. 

For me... Synth is all about creating a harmonic lt rich sound, and then filtering some frequencies out. Mastotron into octamizer is the most harmonicly rich sound I can make. It's the foundation for all my best tones. 

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by GisserD

[BenR24]

Slightly torn now, as there’s an octamizer for sale near me for a good price(£85) or do I wait for an octabvre to come up for good price.

[GisserD]

Like I said. 2 different animals! 

Best to get both me thinks

But I can guarantee that mastotron into octamizer sounds the muts! I've got a sound sample somewhere. I'll try and dig it out. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by GisserD

[GisserD]

Here is a post I made in a private convo a few months ago with the Same at the end... 

I far prefer Mastotron into Octamizer.
its mainly the octamizer that makes this work as It pretty much take whatever you put into it and halves it's pitch. Then the filters do their thing. wheras a standard octaver (synth voice,cog, oc2 etc) generates a synth tone an 8ve down.
this is why they need a clean input to detect pitch.

The mastotron dosent seem to like an octave in front either and it dodent really need one. it takes a basic signal and adds more very VERY harmonically rich content (almost square) AND subs.  so its win win.

I put a short sample together to demonstrate.

1. clean bass
2. mastotron
3. octamizer
4. octamizer into Mastotron
4. mastotron into octamizer

 

 

Gfuzznoctave.mp3

[Quatschmacher]

27 minutes ago, BenR24 said:

Slightly torn now, as there’s an octamizer for sale near me for a good price(£85) or do I wait for an octabvre to come up for good price.

That is a good price on the Octamizer and similarly priced to the excellent MXR BOD. I’d get the Octamizer now and try out other stuff next to it later. You’ll easily sell it again if you prefer something else.

The cheapest I’ve seen a used Octabvre for was £180 but that was a one-off, usually they are about £200. The mini version about £160.

[Quatschmacher]

1 minute ago, GisserD said:

Here is a post I made in a private convo a few months ago with the Same at the end... 

I far prefer Mastotron into Octamizer.
its mainly the octamizer that makes this work as It pretty much take whatever you put into it and halves it's pitch. Then the filters do their thing. wheras a standard octaver (synth voice,cog, oc2 etc) generates a synth tone an 8ve down.
this is why they need a clean input to detect pitch.

The mastotron dosent seem to like an octave in front either and it dodent really need one. it takes a basic signal and adds more very VERY harmonically rich content (almost square) AND subs.  so its win win.

I put a short sample together to demonstrate.

1. clean bass
2. mastotron
3. octamizer
4. octamizer into Mastotron
4. mastotron into octamizer

 

 

Gfuzznoctave.mp3

You should also do it with Octamizer and Mastotron in parallel. 

[GisserD]

4 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

You should also do it with Octamizer and Mastotron in parallel. 

Will do!