17/03/1964 a day of birth Precision bass build

[rubis]

I was born on 17th March 1964 and I’ve always wanted a ‘year of birth’ bass.

Sonic blue is my favourite Fender colour. Rosewood board necks are my favourite necks.

I can’t imagine how much a decent ‘64 sonic blue precision would be, certainly beyond any price I could justify spending, and to be honest, if i had that sort of money to spare, the thought of spending it on a guitar would scare me!

So my attention was drawn to Limelight basses and modern Fender relics, but to be honest, they always looked ‘overdone’ to me. Maybe it’s my northeastern upbringing, but I was taught that you worked hard for your toys and you looked after them, so if I had been lucky enough to acquire a ‘64 p bass when I was starting out, it would look well played but well loved these days, not like I'd dragged it to work every day tied to the back of the car.

Also, Limelight basses seem to look generically vintage to me, by that I mean that there are important missing details, (mainly for a ‘64 bass, the lack of a laminate fingerboard), which would put me off buying one, fabulous as they are.

 

So, to get to the point of this build.

I am going to have a go at building a ‘day of birth’ bass.

That means one built on 17th March 1964, it will be sonic blue, I will attempt to ‘age’ it or lightly relic it, to look like it has been loved and played a lot, but not abused, not my thing I’m afraid.

I have collected a certain amount of articles and photos for reference, but I am counting on the expertise of those who have owned a 60’s Fender, and those with the kind of in-depth knowledge who can help me with the small details which will hopefully add up to a convincing finished article.

Let me clearly point out however, I am not intending to make some sort of forgery or attempting to pass the end result off in any way as an original ‘64 bass.

Firstly, I don’t think it would fool too many people.

Secondly, in the style of Limelight basses, it will have an alternative decal on the rear of the headstock with a suitable inscription to avoid any confusion.

I think this will be a fairly slow process, but it will be fun (providing things don’t go too wrong) and I hope it will be an opportunity for discussion and learning.

Probably my biggest challenge will be making a period correct veneer fingerboard neck such as this rather than use a slab board neck from the likes of Allparts

       

 

 

[rubis]

As an example of the kind of ‘fun’ detail I will be fussing over, I shall try to replicate the date stamp on the end of the neck, of course, to say 17 MAR 64 (it would be silly not to!)

I shall also try to stamp my date of birth on the neck plate as a serial number

I have a few bits to make a start with, it will have a Bare Knuckles ‘65 pickup which I love.

I have an alder body from a popular online body parts supplier, which was sold to me as a second because of a couple of very small knots in the wood, but they are in areas where a lightly worn bass would still have intact paint anyway.

It came routed and sanded for less than the cost of an alder blank, so it seemed rude not to, it will be painted over and then lightly relic’d anyway, so it certainly doesn’t need to be perfect.

I am comparing the appearance of it to some of the photos I have collected, to try to get things like edge radius and routings to look as close as I can to a ‘64 body before finishing it.

I have already had advice from the  very knowledgeable Brams77, a proper gent if ever there was one!

He put my mind at rest over a detail which was concerning me, namely, that I had read somewhere that Fender would stain all bodies yellow before finishing, irrespective of whether they were to be sunburst or painted solid colours.

As I intend this to be sonic blue, I was worried that the yellow would bleed through and turn it green, not that surf green is in any way unappealing to me, I just prefer sonic blue.

Anyway Bram informed me that in ‘63 and ‘64 when production at Fender was picking up, this practice was dropped on custom colours, so i can do sealer, white primer, colour coat then lacquer in the way it would have been done back in the day!

And this is what I am hoping to encourage from anyone with an opinion or knowledge of the subject to share, a sort of co-operative effort if you wouldn’t mind helping out please.

Here is an example.

Apparently, in mid ‘64 Fender changed the logo from the spaghetti logo to the larger script, as shown on this photo

My question is when, before March or afterwards?

I already have a couple of the later decals, but would March ‘64 be the spaghetti logo?……..logo geeks I need your help please!

 

 

[AndyTravis]

I thought that 2nd logo was 65/66 “transition”

[Woodinblack]

17 minutes ago, rubis said:

As an example of the kind of ‘fun’ detail I will be fussing over, I shall try to replicate the date stamp on the end of the neck, of course, to say 17 MAR 64 (it would be silly not to!)

I shall also try to stamp my date of birth on the neck plate as a serial number

The 7 in that isn't the day thought is it, it is the model. I thought that meant that it was a Precision neck from March 64 that is an A width

Sorry - thats wrong, that 7 is a jazz bass, it would be 5 for a P bass. you put a 17 there and it means it is a mustang bass neck!

Edited June 21, 2018 by Woodinblack

[rubis]

Thanks for your comments gents

Woodinblack - how right you are! 

I assumed (wrongly) that the numbers were the day the neck was made.....not so, as you point out, the numbers relate to the neck type, something I’d overlooked and confirmed here

 http://www.guitarhq.com/fender.html

However, this is a happy accident because I still want the stamp to read 17 MAR 64, so much the better if officionados such as yourself, spot the inaccuracy, but hopefully, appreciate the reason for doing it, it’s a personalisation, I don’t want to slavishly try to recreate a ‘64 bass, I don’t have access to one to take measurements from etc and this one will have a neck to suit my hands, IE a thick profile

thank you for educating me, please  do continue 🙂

 

[rubis]

Andy 

          Thanks for your interest. According to the onfo I have found, and I don’t at all mind being corrected, the ‘transition logo’ came into use in either late summer or fall 64, during the transition of ownership/management between Leo Fender and CBS

If this is correct, then I would probably need the earlier spaghetti logo to fit in with March 64

Can anyone confirm this please ?

Edited June 21, 2018 by rubis

[Rick's Fine '52]

March '64 would be the spaghetti decal with 4 pat numbers. The transition was late summer '64. 

Here you will see an April '64 Precision (Refinished), with the Spaghetti decal, your March tribute bass would precede this;

https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Fender-Precision-Bass-1964-Blue-68661

Good luck with the Project, you'll enjoy it, I've done a few, and its good fun. As you've already found, the hardest part will be getting a veneer rosewood board. Others reference points for March '64 would be clay dots still used, they changed to pearloid in late '64, and the tuners still didn't sit flush, the divots weren't milled in the back of the headstock until late '64 also. White guards were also nitrate in March '64, and not the vinyl which came in later that year, some good aged repro's are available though.

Look forward to seeing your progress.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Rick's Fine '52
spelling

[rubis]

Thank you very kindly, this is exactly the kind of help I was hoping for

I found a build diary on TDPRI that a guy from Isreal did a while ago, and he used Durham’s water putty for the clay dots, it looked very authentic and is availble on Amazon, so I’ll have a little play with that

Bram is waiting for a nitro Spitfire guard he’s ordered to arrive, and although they are a bit expensive, I think I’ll end up with one

I was looking at using those Gotoh tuners, are they authentic, does anyone know?

Thanks again for helping out

Edited June 26, 2018 by rubis

[Rick's Fine '52]

A sonic blue would have had a white guard, and in my opinion don’t look right with tort. Some spitfire guards look ok, others anything but, so be careful there. There are some nice aged nitrate mint green reproduction guards available. 

Gotoh reverse tuners are good reissue versions, nice period correct long stems. They aren’t the cheapest though. They do some res-o-lite versions too, which are excellent, I have them on a build i’ve recently finished which is for sale, there’s a link in my signature, so you can see what they look like, and of course they’re very light.

 

[discreet]

44 minutes ago, Rick's Fine '52 said:

A sonic blue would have had a white guard, and in my opinion don’t look right with tort. Some spitfire guards look ok, others anything but, so be careful there. There are some nice aged nitrate mint green reproduction guards available. 

Have to agree. Why people slap tort on any old colour is beyond me. Love sonic blue though, especially that washed-out sonic with an aged mint guard, light-relic hardware, dark rosewood, clay dots... dammit, I've given myself GAS!

[rubis]

Sorry, didn't come out clear there, I meant to say a white (or white-ish) guard, I refer to them all as nitro, should have said nitrate !

 

Other than Spitfire, what other brands of repro guards are available?

 

thanks 

               Harry

[Rick's Fine '52]

I’ll PM you with links to guards.

 

[rubis]

Thank you very kindly

[discreet]

12 minutes ago, rubis said:

Sorry, didn't come out clear there, I meant to say a white (or white-ish) guard, I refer to them all as nitro, should have said nitrate...

Ah... I'd pretty much forgotten that Spitfire make guards other than tort !

[rubis]

I've managed to get a little bit of work done on the body, taking advantage of the heatwave going on at the moment, I have sealed the body then applied white primer and then a coat of sonic blue. 

I appreciate that although the finish will be aged, or lightly relic'd, it would make sense to start with a good finish before 'attacking' it, as that would have been how it started out, so I will aim to get the best finish I can using just rattle cans. I have a compressor, but as I'm not aiming for a showroom finish, I can compromise a little bit. I this heat, the paint from a rattle can goes on quite well as the paint and the body are warmed up nicely. 

Bit more work to do though, when I'm happy with the colour coat, I'm planning on a clear coat, then a bit of subtle yellowing with light amber neck tint, avoiding the areas that would not be affected, such as under the pickguard, bridge/cover and neck plate, then another clear coat. 

[ChunkyMunky]

Keep it up! I love seeing builds like this slowly come to life. 

[cLepto-bass]

I look forward to seeing this come along. 

[rubis]

I've been doing a bit more of the colour coat and before the next step, it's time for my next appeal for help, opinion and advice!

This is the sort of look I'm aiming for, a sort of slightly yellowed with age and lightly relic'd look , a bit like this bass shown below. 

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by rubis

[rubis]

Now, the dilemma I have at the moment is how to best achieve this look. 

My original plan was, once the colour was on, to apply a clear coat and then some subtle yellowing followed by more  clear coats

I intended to put the bridge and cover and also the scratchplate in place before yellowing, which would leave the colour beneath to show how it looks when new. Also trying to avoid yellowing the neck pocket, because these areas wouldn't be exposed to the light. 

I have pored over countless pictures of guitars and basses, both naturally aged and otherwise, and this is the frustrating bit, there are contradictions in how to go about it, and some look less convincing than others, so I'm thinking less is more!

Here's the main point of confusion at the moment, sorry if it seems trivial, but if I'm doing this, I may as well do it as best I can, and if there are those who move among us who own a naturally aged and yellowed beast, then please advise me. 

I had thought initially that areas which come into contact with the body whilst playing, would have less visible yellowing, I assumed that the constant rubbing would 'clean it up'

I'm thinking particularly of the forearm and the belly contour on the back, maybe even that little patch that sometimes wears away just in front of the bridge below the G string. I've highlighted the kind of area on the photo below, again remember I'm aiming for slightly more subtle than the guitar in this picture if I can!

But then I saw a YouTube video of a bloke doing a Strat body and yellowing the paint "where it comes into contact with the body"...….the opposite of what I had assumed would happen. 

What do you think would be the correct pattern of yellowing...…...where the body touches, or everywhere else except where the body touches? 

Edited July 8, 2018 by rubis

[Pea Turgh]

Bit of weird suggestion, but would taking the body to a tanning salon (with the appropriate bits masked off) and whopping it on a sunbed for 30 minutes yellow the paint?

*Disclaimer - I’ve never been to one so I don’t have a clue what happens. It might just catch fire.

[rubis]

Funny you should say that, I was googling away this afternoon and found the same suggestion ( I think it was on the TDPRI site in America) and the reply was that it would be the wrong kind of light from a tanning booth. 

My knowledge of the light spectrum is not all it could be, I must admit, and I thought that it would be the same sort of light as sunlight, which I think is what yellows the lacquer. 

Thanks for replying, we wait for someone with a tan who knows about these things

[SpondonBassed]

11 hours ago, rubis said:

Funny you should say that, I was googling away this afternoon and found the same suggestion ( I think it was on the TDPRI site in America) and the reply was that it would be the wrong kind of light from a tanning booth. 

My knowledge of the light spectrum is not all it could be, I must admit, and I thought that it would be the same sort of light as sunlight, which I think is what yellows the lacquer. 

Thanks for replying, we wait for someone with a tan who knows about these things

Is the yellowing not from exposure to cigarette smoke over many years?

I tend to believe that nicotine stains are largely responsible for that sort of discolouration.  I'd have thought that most basses are kept out of bright and direct sunlight during storage.

[BreadBin]

9 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

Is the yellowing not from exposure to cigarette smoke over many years?

I tend to believe that nicotine stains are largely responsible for that sort of discolouration.  I'd have thought that most basses are kept out of bright and direct sunlight during storage.

It's not tobacco smoke,  I have a strat copy here that has lived in a non-smoking teenagers bedroom for a long time and that has loads of yellowing. I think it's more UV damage than anything else. 

[Bridgehouse]

The yellowing is UV discolouration in the lacquer.

I’ve had some success overspraying a light amber tint nitro to give some of the effect - it’s not exact but it’s close. 

I’ll dig out some photos.

I also have a later 64 Precision in sunburst should you want any details - My neck is October I think, and I have the transition logo. Pots are October 64 and pickup is November I think. 

[Bridgehouse]

Here's my daphne blue with light amber tint overspray to simulate yellowed lacquer..