17/03/1964 a day of birth Precision bass build

[Pea Turgh]

Happy birthday!!!

[rubis]

Thank you very kindly Pea Turgh  🍻

A very happy one it is too, I didn't know that this arrived on Friday while I was at work,  just in time for today! 

I took a couple of quick photos this morning when I saw your message, thanks again and have a great St Patrick's Day everyone!

 

[SpondonBassed]

I thought @Pea Turgh had been scanning the birthdays list in another part of the forum.  Then I spotted the title of the topic.  Doh!

Happy 55th Rubis!

[rubis]

Thank you kindly sir 

[rubis]

1 hour ago, cLepto-bass said:

I love everything about his build. 

That's very kind, thank you and a Happy St Patrick's Day

[Jabba_the_gut]

Very nice neck - that would definitely make a happy birthday!! 

All the best

Jez

[rubis]

Thank you Jez 

[rubis]

Went off on a trip to Ostend and found this cheeky little tipple, well...… if it's got your name on it, you have to try it, right?
Very decent it was too, god bless the Belgians and their beers!

Now it's time to get on with finishing the neck on this project, and I wonder if anyone can help me out with a small detail on the fitting of tuners. 

I have a set of Gotoh tuners, all period correct looking with nickel finish and the turned over ears on the back, like this 

The thing I have noticed is this...…….did Fender in and around 1964 make any kind of recess on the back of the headstock to allow the tuners to sit flush, like this 

which is on a 1966 neck, and looks like an aftermarket modification to me, or were they made like this, where the tuner looks like it has compressed the wood as it was screwed on?

 

As ever, all advice and opinions are most welcome folks

[Rick's Fine '52]

21 hours ago, rubis said:

 

I have a set of Gotoh tuners, all period correct looking with nickel finish and the turned over ears on the back, like this 

The thing I have noticed is this...…….did Fender in and around 1964 make any kind of recess on the back of the headstock to allow the tuners .....were they made like this, where the tuner looks like it has compressed the wood as it was screwed on?

 

As ever, all advice and opinions are most welcome folks

These relief holes were drilled in the factory as standard from around Feb ‘64, to ensure the tuners sat flush (I’m always surprised it took them 13 years to work it out!! )

Nice looking beer by the way!

[Soledad]

22 hours ago, rubis said:

or were they made like this

Just found this thread so sorry if I repeat anything (it's a long 'un). Right up my street this is. My long-term P was a Feb '64 (L16277) so I know them well. The machines are flush, not recessed. I guess the wood may compress a little (although maple is hard stuff).
I'm sure this is covered elsewhere, but is the neck to '64 width / profile?

Re ageing, I agree with your early comments regarding 'relics' - My 64 was gigged / played a very lot and I came nowhere near wearing off the paint at the top (right arm area) yet I see relics where it's down to bare wood. Mine was Lake Placid blue, and now resides with the bloke from Status Quo.
Ageing the s-plate may be fun. They turn a weird yellow hint of grey / green colour. It's quite subtle but held next to a new white one it's very noticeable - I guess it's UV, pollutants in the venues - surely not . May be hard to simulate but could try UV lamps?? Also they end up not flat, have a slight kind of unflattness over time, and the edges become slightly rounded/softened.
The clay markers on the neck are important - someone here will know what to use to get that and they go nice n mucky.
Obviously the finger rest in the correct (lower) location - or at least the holes in plate where it would have been (I took mine off). And the holes for the ashtray and pup cover. Remember the strap button on back of head, spaghetti logo.
The neck varnish / laquer will need to be aged / yellowed. IIRC the tuners were nickel plated, distinctly different to chrome and nicer, plus they go dull where you don't touch them (i.e. tune up).

sorry to ramble on and excuse any points already covered - I'll follow your very fine mission with interest.

p.s. the laquer on the neck on mine was thin (from new I'm sure though I bought it later). I did wear through the back where my thumb rests. I'd say keep laquer on neck (including head) quite thin. Far as I know it's the 90s MIJ ones that have a thick laquer but certainly my 64 was so thin you could see the thickness of the logo transfer edge... if you follow.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Soledad

[rubis]

T

1 hour ago, Rick's Fine '52 said:

These relief holes were drilled in the factory as standard from around Feb ‘64, to ensure the tuners sat flush (I’m always surprised it took them 13 years to work it out!! )

Nice looking beer by the way!

 

49 minutes ago, Soledad said:

Just found this thread so sorry if I repeat anything (it's a long 'un). Right up my street this is. My long-term P was a Feb '64 (L16277) so I know them well. The machines are flush, not recessed. I guess the wood may compress a little (although maple is hard stuff).

Thank you so much for replying Rick and Soledad

So just to be clear before I get the Black and Decker out, March '64 would have had holes drilled in the back like this to allow the tuners to sit flush? 

I love the availability of cool little details like this, god bless the internet (sometimes!)

[Rick's Fine '52]

11 minutes ago, rubis said:

T

 

Thank you so much for replying Rick and Soledad

So just to be clear before I get the Black and Decker out, March '64 would have had holes drilled in the back like this to allow the tuners to sit flush? 

I love the availability of cool little details like this, god bless the internet (sometimes!)

You’re on the cusp of the introduction, and, as with all things pre-CBS Fender, there would undoubtedly have been a transition period. I think one of the endearing features of an old Fender is the slightly bowed tuner plate as it’s forced off the neck by the tuner wings, so personally I wouldn’t drill the divots, but that’s just me. For March you will be equally accurate with either option, so I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over this particular detail. 

[blisters on my fingers]

I may well have misunderstood but did you dip the pots into the acid ? It's easy enough to pry off the back of the pots with a small screwdriver and replace them by bending the little tab thingies back into place. Also apparently when soldered up, the blobs of solder can be aged using a tiny paintbrush and some kind of acid, maybe the same stuff you already have.

Great thread 

[rubis]

4 minutes ago, Rick's Fine '52 said:

You’re on the cusp of the introduction, and, as with all things pre-CBS Fender, there would undoubtedly have been a transition period. I think one of the endearing features of an old Fender is the slightly bowed tuner plate as it’s forced off the neck by the tuner wings, so personally I wouldn’t drill the divots, but that’s just me. For March you will be equally accurate with either option, so I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over this particular detail. 

I'm so glad you said that Rick, because I couldn't agree more, I honestly thought those countersunk holes were an aftermarket mod carried out by the owner. 

I agree with you and the Black and Decker can get back in his box!

Thanks again, and if I had any Belgian beer in the house I would be toasting your encyclopaedic knowledge, red wine will have to do...…..cheers 

[rubis]

9 minutes ago, blisters on my fingers said:

I may well have misunderstood but did you dip the pots into the acid ? It's easy enough to pry off the back of the pots with a small screwdriver and replace them by bending the little tab thingies back into place. Also apparently when soldered up, the blobs of solder can be aged using a tiny paintbrush and some kind of acid, maybe the same stuff you already have.

Great thread 

Great stuff, I didn't dip the pots directly into the acid, the idea is that you lie the hardware parts in a plastic tub which goes into a bigger tub containing an inch or so of acid, the smaller tub is floating on this acid and when you put an airtight cover on the bigger tub, you seal in the fumes, which tarnishes the finish on the hardware. 

It works best with nickel, and in the case of the pots, they were in there less than half an hour, just long enough to take off the sheen and not look quite so brand new. 

I will try a dab of the acid on an old scrap pot with solder already on it, to see how your idea works, sounds great if it works ok and doesn't compromise the solder joint. 

If there are any little tricks like this, I'm all for trying them out, I think it's the sum of all the troubles and efforts you make over little details which give you (or me at least) the most satisfaction when you're finished. 

thanks for replying

[Soledad]

5 hours ago, Rick's Fine '52 said:

there would undoubtedly have been a transition period.

I'm sure mine sat flush, but never removed them in all those years. Rick's Fine will know - personally I'd like them sitting flat but you could always compress them on so the indents form in the maple?
Stunning work here. Reminds me again I shouldn't have sold my 64, but there you go.

[rubis]

20 hours ago, Meddle said:

Might as well try tracking down some Pre-CBS dirt and try working it into the carbon track at the same time. There is no crackle like Pre-CBS crackle. 

I was just going to make do with a bit of modern house dust from the hoover 

[rubis]

I rounded the fingerboard edges off a bit more than Musikraft did, at the business end where I think it would wear more, and then used some of this leather dye, which others have recommended for darkening the fingerboard. It also darkens the 'clay' dots down a bit which I prefer the look of now.

I may add some boiled linseed oil later to give it more of a shiny, gunky old look. 

I also rounded the end of the fingerboard off a bit at the neck pocket end, as they also seem to wear down there.

I have done the date stamp on the heel of the neck, as I said at the start I purposely made it to show my date of birth, rather than copying the manufacturing marks Fender would have or still do, put on their necks. 

The Fender decal was given a light coat of amber, the instructions advised doing it, but I have noticed that the decal on old Fenders is often slightly darker than the headstock

Then I give the neck a light dusting of amber lacquer before masking off parts of the neck, the same way I did on the body, that would discolour differently, due to not getting exposure to light, and then applied a bit more amber. 

Again, I know it's not going to be seen, but a big part of the enjoyment for me is seeing how these little touches are created and applying them to something of mine. It makes a difference to me.

I also made a decal with 'Rubis' on it, my date of birth and a little shamrock, in plain view and to be clear coated over to permanently seal it in, a bit like Limelight do on the back of their headstocks.

[Pea Turgh]

The care that’s going in to this is something else!  Loving it.

[Andyjr1515]

Amazing skills and attention to detail.

[rubis]

Thankyou kindly Maestro 

[Soledad]

unbelievable attention to detail, the heel shading and everything else. Super- particular.

The fingerboard tinting is great - did you consider graduating it a bit in the open - 7th fret regions. I suspect finger grease over the years tended to darken the lower registers a little more. The BLO may contribute to that maybe.

Fab work.

[Jabba_the_gut]

Liking this!

[rubis]

16 hours ago, Soledad said:

unbelievable attention to detail, the heel shading and everything else. Super- particular.

The fingerboard tinting is great - did you consider graduating it a bit in the open - 7th fret regions. I suspect finger grease over the years tended to darken the lower registers a little more. The BLO may contribute to that maybe.

Fab work.

Thank you Soledad

 you're one step ahead of me with the BLO, I was hoping that it would give it a bit of that old, greasy look, as you say, down at the business end.

I was planning on putting it on a bit thinner up the dusty end, maybe even not applying any at all under the E and A strings from about the 15th fret upwards. I'll see how it goes.

I did a bit of extra rolling on the fingerboard, as it came with just the edges taken off really, so I did it on just the 9th fret downwards, as I don't stray above the octave all that often, and I tend to loosen my grip on the neck a little when I do, if you know what I mean, so I wouldn't rub the edges of the neck up there too much anyway! 

[rubis]

I've been doing a little bit more on this build, some things more effective than others. 

I used the same method of heat and cold to give the neck lacquer a bit of crazing, as I did on the body. I must say I was a bit nervous of damaging or warping the neck, so I went about it quite cautiously. 

It may be due to the fact that I deliberately put a thinner covering of lacquer on the back of the neck, than I did on the heel and the headstock, but the crazing is very faint. It's most noticeable on the front of the headstock, which I'm quite pleased about, I'll quit while I'm ahead!

I also gave the fingerboard a coating of boiled linseed oil and tried to 'miss out' that small area just south of the nut, which I notice doesn't darken as much with sweat and schmunga on fingerboards over time. I did the same thing at the top of the neck where I don't tend to venture much. 

Again, the effect is subtle, it doesn't get much darker, but it does give it a bit of a shiny, greasy look. 

I also did the neck plate 'serial number' which came out ok, but you will notice that the number 7 got double stamped, and I have to admit it was operator error with the hammer which was the cause! 

Believe it or not, my first job when I left school in 1980, was as a blacksmith. I loved it, and it was only thanks to Margaret Thatcher killing off heavy industry in the North East, that I packed it in after 9 years. 

Anyway, despite gaining those valuable life skills, I can still hit my right thumb with a hammer now and then, and that's exactly what happened when I was stamping the numbers on the neck plate. It hurt like f*** and I tried to re-stamp the number, but it looks a bit obvious. Never mind, I can always replace it later if it bugs me enough. 

I've began to do some of those little jobs, like adding bits of hardware and beginning on the wiring etc, and it's starting to look like a guitar! 

I've got mixed feelings about it, if I'm honest, because it's been such fun, I don't want it to come to an end. I know what will happen, I probably talk myself into doing another.