Drummer dilemma

[PaulWarning]

15 hours ago, Linus27 said:

Yeah, it is beginning to start to annoy us. The problem is we have 2 to 4 gigs a weekend, every weekend for the rest of the year so we have comitment. Still, I think something will eventually break and force the situation eventually. I no longer support him and carry him through gigs and just let him screw up on his own which the others are noticing more now and commenting.

if you're getting that many gigs maybe it's not as big a problem as you think, I know from experience it's easy to start getting things out of proportion, just a thought.

[yorks5stringer]

We've just had to let a drummer go who's stock phrase was to me or the guitar, 'you were speeding up and I had to follow you'. My response was always 'but aren't you mean to keep the beat and we follow you?'. He had started using  not 1 but 2 metronomes at gigs and rehearsals but still would start a song off at the wrong speed having incorrectly looked at it from his list. It got so bad that the singer was counting off the beats to start the songs and at a recent gig had to turn around ( as he was off on the wrong speed again) and ask him to follow the guitar.  We had a meeting where we discussed the situation without him and all voted for his departure. even though he is a lovely chap. We actually wondered if he was quite deaf.....even though one could have a conversation with him. The tipping point came when we borrowed another drummer for a rehearsal (I was not there....) and the others could not believe how much better this drummer was and how he actually played the drums rather than just keeping an (incorrect) beat

 

[PaulWarning]

I do open mics with my partner on drums (I say drums, just a snare, hi hat and crash) with me on acoustic guitar and singing, just an excuse to spend an evening in the pub really, she says I speed up and I say "No you have", to which she replies "I'm only following you"  wrong way round methinks, or maybe not 

Edited June 25, 2018 by PaulWarning

[chris_b]

No on should be "following" anyone. Everyone in a band is responsible for playing in time and keeping to the correct tempo.

I don't understand why there are so many posts about bad and incompetent musicianship referring to "our" drummer.  These posts should be saying "our old" drummer. If someone can't or won't keep to the tempo they should go. Sooner rather than later.

[DaytonaRik]

Really lucky in that current skinsman is a drum teacher and plays everything with a metronome - we agree on the pace of a given track at a rehearsal and once it's it's set then it really is set...end of!

[bassjim]

16 hours ago, Linus27 said:

Yeah, it is beginning to start to annoy us. The problem is we have 2 to 4 gigs a weekend, every weekend for the rest of the year so we have comitment. Still, I think something will eventually break and force the situation eventually. I no longer support him and carry him through gigs and just let him screw up on his own which the others are noticing more now and commenting.

With 2-4 gigs a weekend booked till the end of the year, unless they are all unpaid, you can get a whole lot of interest from unemployed or not very busy (band wise) drummers. A lot of them wont need to rehearse for weeks or months on end either.  With that many gigs they should be match fit within a few weeks on the fly.  

We had a problem with our old drummers abilities and despite our fears, getting rid and replacing him was very easy as we had plenty of gigs on offer. Our new drummer is fantastic and we are so much better as a band with him on board. We also now have a nice dep pool of brilliant drummers too. Win Win.  Get it over and done with and start enjoying band life again. Get rid of the clown ASAP.

[mikel]

Agreed. I also drum in a band and timekeeping is the responsibility of all band members. Having said that If the drummer starts to speed up a song the rest are obliged to follow or the dancers in the audience will be all over the place. Whoever counts in or begins the song is responsible for the original tempo so its then down to them. When drumming If I am counting off a song I have a tempo watch set to flashing light so only I can see it. Each song is set to an agreed tempo and I use the count off to as a guide. No one calls me out for wrong tempo songs. It is also a big part of a drummers skill set being able to keep a constant tempo. If your drummer cant do that they need to work on it or use the tempo watch for the whole song.

[bassjim]

22 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

I play in a club band where the material is nearly all 60s/70s classics. Not much for a bass player to chew on, but regular work.

Recently we have been playing everything a shade too fast. The effect is cumulative, so that by the second set some songs are ridiculously speedy (ever heard the Ramones doing Spirit in the Sky?)...

i have remarked on this in rehearsal, and last night after the third song I had a word with the drummer to rein it back a bit. At the end of the evening he confronted me, clearly very angry, and told me I had wrecked the show for him and that this should never be discussed at a gig. The tempos had improved but he managed to miss some cues, etc, so my comment had some effect, even if his confidence was shot.

So how do I approach this at the next rehearsal? How do you work with a drummer with that attitude, or is he being reasonable...?

 

Is it good when he does get the tempo right? If so could you point that out. Reward good drumming and good tempos with praise but never say anything about the bad stuff.  

Every one has their cross to bear on a gig so I can see why he would react badly being told he's cocking it up during a gig. Its a downward spiral from there. This kind of thing goes away from regular gigging as a band as the speeding up can be a result of nerves and just wanting to get it over and done with.

Maybe he has a lack of confidence which translates into a tempo problem. This is solved with practice and rehearsal which takes it into the next discussion. Is he good enough for your band in the first place? Is this tempo thing a problem in rehearsal or just on a gig?

 

[spike]

38 minutes ago, bassjim said:

With 2-4 gigs a weekend booked till the end of the year, unless they are all unpaid, you can get a whole lot of interest from unemployed or not very busy (band wise) drummers. A lot of them wont need to rehearse for weeks or months on end either.  With that many gigs they should be match fit within a few weeks on the fly.  

We had a problem with our old drummers abilities and despite our fears, getting rid and replacing him was very easy as we had plenty of gigs on offer. Our new drummer is fantastic and we are so much better as a band with him on board. We also now have a nice dep pool of brilliant drummers too. Win Win.  Get it over and done with and start enjoying band life again. Get rid of the clown ASAP.

Exactly this. My band had a similar problem a couple years ago and with a busy diary we had no problem attracting good drummers.

[Monkey Steve]

Bit of a no win situation during the gigs - if you don't go with the drummer, even if the drummer's wrong, then you're the one that looks like you're making mistakes.

I like the flexibility to vary the tempo during a gig depending on how things are going.  The best drummer I ever played with, not necessarily technically but certainly for rapport, we could push each other, or pull each other back to control the tempo, and we tended to agree on the changes required (and if we didn't, we could have a word after the song and it was instantly sorted out, no arguments or macho nonsense about who was right).  Clearly that's not the case here...

Sounds like you've got a classic case of "I'm the one who plays this instrument so I'll decide how I play it, not you" pig headedness.  Unless you have a clear band leader who can lay down the law, I suggest that the only solution is to give it a good airing, bring it up with the rest of the band at the next rehearsal/ahead of the next gig (and having carefully briefed everybody else beforehand and made sure that they agree with you) so that everything's clear and he knows what's expected of him. 

That said, an old band of mine tried it once (not exactly the same problem, but a similarly fixable one if the band member had paid any attention to what we were saying) and it didn't solve the issue.  However, what it did do was make it very clear that they had to do better, so when he was replaced he didn't have any argument - he still thought that what he was doing was right, but we'd made it very clear that we didn't want him to do that so it was time to part company.

[EliasMooseblaster]

As Chris rightly points out above, it shouldn't be a case of following one member of the band. Of course it can often feel like you have to follow the drummer if they lose control of the tempo, partly because so much pop and rock music have each beat of the bar emphasised by the drums.

That said, if the band are listening to each other properly, you can rein in a drummer who's getting a bit overexcited. Play behind the beat a bit more, emphasise any notes on the beats - especially while they're playing fills - and a good drummer will realise they've sped up, as opposed to dragging the whole band away with them!

[dave_bass5]

On 24/06/2018 at 11:41, Mickeyboro said:

I play in a club band where the material is nearly all 60s/70s classics. Not much for a bass player to chew on, but regular work.

Recently we have been playing everything a shade too fast. The effect is cumulative, so that by the second set some songs are ridiculously speedy (ever heard the Ramones doing Spirit in the Sky?)...

i have remarked on this in rehearsal, and last night after the third song I had a word with the drummer to rein it back a bit. At the end of the evening he confronted me, clearly very angry, and told me I had wrecked the show for him and that this should never be discussed at a gig. The tempos had improved but he managed to miss some cues, etc, so my comment had some effect, even if his confidence was shot.

So how do I approach this at the next rehearsal? How do you work with a drummer with that attitude, or is he being reasonable...?

 

I always record everything we do. That way i have real evidence to back up any comments i make. They might not be the right comments, but at least i can show what im talking about and then everyone can decide. It works especially well with fast drummers IME.

[Muppet]

We record gigs too. Then we send round the recordings just to say " this was us, what would we do better."  No finger pointing or blaming.  Individuals are often quick to put their hand up to any of their own mistakes when hearing the recordings. It's also a good opportunity to say "your tone was great," or "that was a fantastic solo" or "you really nailed that part" . We all like a bit of recognition from our own bandmates too.....

[josie]

In my case it's the keys player who is always, always too fast. I keep telling him I can't keep up with him. I try playing the bassline I've practiced as fast as I can, and asking him to slow down to match it - he means well, but gets carried away. It's not just me, we all rib him about his "quickies" 🙂 He's a good keys player, and a great bloke. I'm now threatening to play standing next to him and "accidentally" brain him with my headstock if needed 🙂

Otoh the one song on our setlist where I take lead vocals, at our last practice I kept begging everyone to slow it down, but listening to the recording I realised it was far too slow to suit the song - I just have to work hard on playing it faster while singing at the same time!