Which keys/synths for jazz?

[Westenra]

Looking to add some keys/synths to my repertoire. I'd want to recreate some nice piano sounds and then some pads and I've came across the Nord Lead 4 which seems to tick a lot of boxes. Question is though what else is out there that will fit the bill, the new Korg Prologue or the Korg Arp Odyssey maybe, I like the look of the Behringer Deepmind 6 too.. The one specification I have is that it is under 1 meter wide as space is limited. Kind of sounds I'd want to recreate is those found in Weather Report, Herbie Hancock, Tower of Power, and if possible John Carpenter..

[CameronJ]

@Quatschmacher?

[Quatschmacher]

8 hours ago, Westenra said:

Looking to add some keys/synths to my repertoire. I'd want to recreate some nice piano sounds and then some pads and I've came across the Nord Lead 4 which seems to tick a lot of boxes. Question is though what else is out there that will fit the bill, the new Korg Prologue or the Korg Arp Odyssey maybe, I like the look of the Behringer Deepmind 6 too.. The one specification I have is that it is under 1 meter wide as space is limited. Kind of sounds I'd want to recreate is those found in Weather Report, Herbie Hancock, Tower of Power, and if possible John Carpenter..

Do you want a polysynth or monosynth? Do you have a budget?

The Nord Lead 3 is better than the 4 in my opinion as the interface is way nicer (each knob has an LED ring around it so that when changing presets, one can see the actual parameter settings).

The synth on Chameleon (bass and solo) was done on an arp odyssey. The Korg minikeys version actually has a nicer keybed than the full size Korg one. Behringer are set to make a clone too which has built-in effects and a sequencer.

Behringer have done a rack version of the Minimoog model D for £299.

Korg Monologue and Minilogue are great little synths.

If you’re looking at Prologue money then also check out Dave Smith Instruments’ Prophet Rev 2. The Prophet 6 and 12 are also great as is the OB6.

Monos worth looking at are the DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub 37 and Subsequent 37 and Arturia Matrixbrute. The last one is about to go up in price by a few hundred on July 1st.

Also, Moog Sub Phatty, Little Phatty and Slim Phatty.

Check out the YouTube channel Automatic Gainsay for really good and in-depth reviews and demos of the Minilogue, Odyssey, Pro 2, Matrixbrute.

Drop me a line if you want some more help.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

Actually, I’ve just re-read and you say you are looking for piano sounds too. Do you mean acoustic piano and Rhodes:Wurlitzer/Clavinet too? If so, something like the Nord Piano (currently on its 4th iteration) might suit; you get a range of electric and acoustic pianos and it has a “sample synth” which will play samples of many, many great synths. This is not the same as having a proper synth where you can tweak every parameter but there are some really good sounds in there.

[Westenra]

3 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Actually, I’ve just re-read and you say you are looking for piano sounds too. Do you mean acoustic piano and Rhodes:Wurlitzer/Clavinet too? If so, something like the Nord Piano (currently on its 4th iteration) might suit; you get a range of electric and acoustic pianos and it has a “sample synth” which will play samples of many, many great synths. This is not the same as having a proper synth where you can tweak every parameter but there are some really good sounds in there.

That's the sounds I'm after! Some one on another forum mentioned the Yamaha CP and I think it's a winner. Sounds good, right size and price, and then for the synth side just get the arp odyssey module, does that sound feasible?

[Quatschmacher]

17 minutes ago, Westenra said:

That's the sounds I'm after! Some one on another forum mentioned the Yamaha CP and I think it's a winner. Sounds good, right size and price, and then for the synth side just get the arp odyssey module, does that sound feasible?

The Yamaha CP sounds great for what it is but if I remember rightly it doesn’t have an acoustic piano sound on it. It is also mini keys and only 3 octaves. There are a lot of two-handed voices which won’t be possible on this without hooking up to a bigger keyboard via midi, which on this is via a proprietary cable.

Actually, if you’re interested in this range, the Yamaha Reface CS is quite a nice synth; digital and just one oscillator but really easy to use and capable of some nice sounds.

The ARP Odyssey module is good. Quite a large format though and probably wouldn’t sit atop a slim keyboard very well.

Worth having a look at the Nord electro, which does acoustic, electric and organs and I think the sample synths too now (need to check). They come in shorter keyboard lengths.

The Roland SE-02 is a tiny Moog-like 3-oscillator rack that will easily sit on top of the Nord and has presets as well as panel control. The knobs are a bit fiddly as they are tiny but it sounds brilliant. 

[BigRedX]

The (K)ARP Odyssey is monophonic (single not at a time) with a fake duophonic mode where each of the two oscillators can be assigned a separate not from the keyboard but they still share the same filter and amplifier envelopes, so if you need to play chords on it then you'll have to look elsewhere. 

 

[Quatschmacher]

If you have a fast computer there are some really excellent virtual instruments out there from the likes of Synthogy (excellent acoustic pianos which are better than any hardware pianos I’ve played) and Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Clavinet from the likes of Scarbee, Sonic Couture and Keyscape.

Actually, if you have an iPad or iPhone I would strongly suggest you get the Moog Minimoog D app (£15). There’s also a Korg ARP Odyssey app for £29. These can be played with any MIDI controller and sound fantastic. 

[BassTractor]

6 hours ago, Westenra said:

That's the sounds I'm after! Some one on another forum mentioned the Yamaha CP and I think it's a winner. Sounds good, right size and price, and then for the synth side just get the arp odyssey module, does that sound feasible?

To me, it's not quite clear what your needs are, but this is what I did myself when playing jazz live: I had a good MIDI keyboard and let its stream of control data go to a polyphonic synth module as well as to a piano module that incorporated both acoustic and electric piano models. Doing that, I could recall pre-programmed patches from those modules quickly, and the modules' volume sliders were my mixer. Sometimes I'd have an additional monophonic synth for specific solo and bass sounds.

You mention pianos. Those can be had from digital pianos of course, but also from samplers, workstations and so-called "keyboards" (the all-in-one machines with many built-in sounds as well as auto-accompaniment and rhythm boxes)

You mention pads. Those traditionally come from polyphonic synths, but can be had from samplers, workstations and "keyboards" too.

The Odyssey-like solo voices as found in Weather Report can be had from an Odyssey of course, but also from many polyphonic machines like samplers and workstation as well as some "keyboards". You'd need to think through which MIDI keyboard you are gonna use for the Odyssey then, or buy an Odyssey with built-in keyboard. Are those solo voices going to be played standing alone, or are you gonna have pads or pianos at the same time? This is an important question for your way forward.

Also: do you need patch storage in order to quickly change sounds? The Odyssey has none, but its iPad version ODDYSEi does. Plus that one's polyphonic, which is some cases can be nice to have if you know what you're doing - i.e. you probably don't want the fattest solo voice in a whopping eight-voice polyphonic setting

Edited June 25, 2018 by BassTractor

[KevB]

Maybe pick up a secondhand sound module with a good selection of pianos/synths on it and just run those patches from any MIDI controller keyboard? Some of the Roland sound modules are pretty cheap secondhand and if you can find ones with expansion cards for 60s/70's keyboards and classic synths you will have a ton of decent patches to play with and can mix different patches together in 'performance' mode (16 voice polyphonic) to get just the type of sound you want then store that 'performance' patch in an easily accessed stored area.

[Dan Dare]

Flat keys, mainly. For the brass players. As you were.

[Westenra]

On 25/06/2018 at 10:48, Quatschmacher said:

If you have a fast computer there are some really excellent virtual instruments out there from the likes of Synthogy (excellent acoustic pianos which are better than any hardware pianos I’ve played) and Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Clavinet from the likes of Scarbee, Sonic Couture and Keyscape.

Actually, if you have an iPad or iPhone I would strongly suggest you get the Moog Minimoog D app (£15). There’s also a Korg ARP Odyssey app for £29. These can be played with any MIDI controller and sound fantastic. 

Sadly my laptop is about 5 years old and while good I doubt it can keep up with today's CPU hogging software. I'd also prefer to have a standalone instrument that I can just switch on and go without having to involve my laptop.

 

On 25/06/2018 at 10:57, BassTractor said:

To me, it's not quite clear what your needs are, but this is what I did myself when playing jazz live: I had a good MIDI keyboard and let its stream of control data go to a polyphonic synth module as well as to a piano module that incorporated both acoustic and electric piano models. Doing that, I could recall pre-programmed patches from those modules quickly, and the modules' volume sliders were my mixer. Sometimes I'd have an additional monophonic synth for specific solo and bass sounds.

You mention pianos. Those can be had from digital pianos of course, but also from samplers, workstations and so-called "keyboards" (the all-in-one machines with many built-in sounds as well as auto-accompaniment and rhythm boxes)

You mention pads. Those traditionally come from polyphonic synths, but can be had from samplers, workstations and "keyboards" too.

The Odyssey-like solo voices as found in Weather Report can be had from an Odyssey of course, but also from many polyphonic machines like samplers and workstation as well as some "keyboards". You'd need to think through which MIDI keyboard you are gonna use for the Odyssey then, or buy an Odyssey with built-in keyboard. Are those solo voices going to be played standing alone, or are you gonna have pads or pianos at the same time? This is an important question for your way forward.

Also: do you need patch storage in order to quickly change sounds? The Odyssey has none, but its iPad version ODDYSEi does. Plus that one's polyphonic, which is some cases can be nice to have if you know what you're doing - i.e. you probably don't want the fattest solo voice in a whopping eight-voice polyphonic setting

I do like the future proofness of having a master MIDI keyboard and just buying modules to fit the sounds I'm after but that can start adding up in £ and space. An almost all in one solution would be ideal like you said with workstations, I'll take a look into them thanks. Storage would be ideal aye, but also just preprogrammed sides would be fine as I'm not too interested in moulding my sound in the traditional analogue synth way.

On 25/06/2018 at 10:43, Quatschmacher said:

The Yamaha CP sounds great for what it is but if I remember rightly it doesn’t have an acoustic piano sound on it. It is also mini keys and only 3 octaves. There are a lot of two-handed voices which won’t be possible on this without hooking up to a bigger keyboard via midi, which on this is via a proprietary cable.

Actually, if you’re interested in this range, the Yamaha Reface CS is quite a nice synth; digital and just one oscillator but really easy to use and capable of some nice sounds.

The ARP Odyssey module is good. Quite a large format though and probably wouldn’t sit atop a slim keyboard very well.

Worth having a look at the Nord electro, which does acoustic, electric and organs and I think the sample synths too now (need to check). They come in shorter keyboard lengths.

The Roland SE-02 is a tiny Moog-like 3-oscillator rack that will easily sit on top of the Nord and has presets as well as panel control. The knobs are a bit fiddly as they are tiny but it sounds brilliant. 

The CP actually has a hidden sound in it which if I recall correctly is an actual acoustic piano or similar sound. Mini keys aren't much of a deal breaker, neither are the octaves as I just want a keyboard to play some ideas on and keep it as a hobby. Do you have any experience with the CS then? I've been watching comparison videos and the DX looks like a good middle ground. While money isn't too much of an issue I will find it hard to justify the £ for a Nord, even second hand as like I said this is just a hobby and bass will always primarily be my instrument of choice.  

[Quatschmacher]

2 hours ago, Westenra said:

Sadly my laptop is about 5 years old and while good I doubt it can keep up with today's CPU hogging software. I'd also prefer to have a standalone instrument that I can just switch on and go without having to involve my laptop.

 

I do like the future proofness of having a master MIDI keyboard and just buying modules to fit the sounds I'm after but that can start adding up in £ and space. An almost all in one solution would be ideal like you said with workstations, I'll take a look into them thanks. Storage would be ideal aye, but also just preprogrammed sides would be fine as I'm not too interested in moulding my sound in the traditional analogue synth way.

The CP actually has a hidden sound in it which if I recall correctly is an actual acoustic piano or similar sound. Mini keys aren't much of a deal breaker, neither are the octaves as I just want a keyboard to play some ideas on and keep it as a hobby. Do you have any experience with the CS then? I've been watching comparison videos and the DX looks like a good middle ground. While money isn't too much of an issue I will find it hard to justify the £ for a Nord, even second hand as like I said this is just a hobby and bass will always primarily be my instrument of choice.  

I just played a CS in a shop for an hour. It is 8 voice poly or mono which is cool.

It’s a shame about how you feel about the Nord as it really sounds right up your street. From reading around, even the electro 4 has the sample synth module. There’s a used one on gumtree for £800. 

Edit - the electro 3 was the first one in this line to include the sample synth. You could probably pick up a 61 key version of that pretty cheaply. 

A 61 key 4D went for £571. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Quatschmacher

[BassTractor]

3 hours ago, Westenra said:

The CP actually has a hidden sound in it which if I recall correctly is an actual acoustic piano or similar sound. 

Supposing you're talking about the Reface CP and not other CPs,  then yes, that hidden sound is indeed a model of an acoustic piano. IMS it was copied from another Yamaha digital piano - like for example the P-115.

[Westenra]

On 26/06/2018 at 20:37, Quatschmacher said:

I just played a CS in a shop for an hour. It is 8 voice poly or mono which is cool.

It’s a shame about how you feel about the Nord as it really sounds right up your street. From reading around, even the electro 4 has the sample synth module. There’s a used one on gumtree for £800. 

Edit - the electro 3 was the first one in this line to include the sample synth. You could probably pick up a 61 key version of that pretty cheaply. 

A 61 key 4D went for £571. 

If I had the time commitment and space I'd buy a Nord and that would be it. I'm not ruling them out yet as I would prefer a slightly cheaper keys but if that proves a failure I'd bite them bullet and go for it. However if I do see one for under £600 that would seal the deal for me to be honest...