app/game to learn fretboard note names USING A REAL INSTRUMENT?

[mcnach]

My girlfriend has been learning to play bass and I'm convincing her of the usefulness of learning at least the names of the notes on the fretboard and how it can be very handy etc...

I thought it would make things 'easier' (or less boring?) if there were an app that would ask for notes (whether random, or within certain scales or whatever) and you could play them on your own bass, and the app would 'listen' and say whether it's right or wrong... that sort of thing.

Does anybody know of such thing? I have found many that do something like that but using a 'virtual fretboad' on screen. That has its uses, but I think it would be far more useful if you play your own instrument, as it involves moving your hand to the right place etc...

Anything out there? Free is great, obviously, but I'd pay for the right one. I think she's much more likely to make the effort if she can 'play a game' rather than using a more academic approach.

[uk_lefty]

Hate to say it but I think download some tabs for favourite songs and play along until you're getting it right. Your ear should tell you if you're off time/ on the wrong note and if you're learning your favourite songs it's more of an accomplishment than getting fifty points on a game but still not knowing how to play your favourite songs.

[Dad3353]

14 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Hate to say it but I think download some tabs for favourite songs and play along until you're getting it right. Your ear should tell you if you're off time/ on the wrong note and if you're learning your favourite songs it's more of an accomplishment than getting fifty points on a game but still not knowing how to play your favourite songs.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's still an enormous advantage and achievement to have a complete knowledge of the instrument from an academic standpoint. Tunes are fine, but so is knowing where the notes are.
As to an app, I'm afraid I can't help, but can see the benefits it would bring. If it doesn't exist, one should be created..!

Edited July 1, 2018 by Dad3353

[ambient]

The notes just follow the chromatic scale. I’ve had students who’ve found it useful learning the notes by picking random ones, say B, then just play every B on the instrument, then say every E. If you can play scales then play a scale but don’t start on the root, maybe start on an open string; for instance play an A major scale but start with your open E string, so open E but then play the F# somewhere else on the bass, not on the 2nd fret of the E. That was something one of my tutors at uni got us to do.

[mcnach]

47 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Hate to say it but I think download some tabs for favourite songs and play along until you're getting it right. Your ear should tell you if you're off time/ on the wrong note and if you're learning your favourite songs it's more of an accomplishment than getting fifty points on a game but still not knowing how to play your favourite songs.

 

That's one approach.

It's just not the approach I was asking for

I would like to make it as 'fun' as possible for her so that she sticks with it. Your approach worked for me. Actually I didn't even do that, I just hammered the notes down in my head until I could 'see' them... But I know she'd probably just not persevere with that approach and I know the 'interactive game' approach will have a much more chance of success. 

 

[mcnach]

1 minute ago, ambient said:

The notes just follow the chromatic scale. I’ve had students who’ve found it useful learning the notes by picking random ones, say B, then just play every B on the instrument, then say every E. If you can play scales then play a scale but don’t start on the root, maybe start on an open string; for instance play an A major scale but start with your open E string, so open E but then play the F# somewhere else on the bass, not on the 2nd fret of the E. That was something one of my tutors at uni got us to do.

 

Those are actually pretty useful exercises!

Now if I could find an app to use as a 'soundboard' while doing that, I can see her learning this stuff pretty quickly (simply because she would keep at it, rather than seeing the exercises as a chore and giving up after a week)

[visog]

Hmm have tried similar things myself but playing 'Guitar Hero' is not playing music and vice versa.

My recommendation is Sight Reading Machine: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sight-reading-machine-practice-music-reading-skill/id662692296

Presents random scores - gives you the opportunity to play them then plays them for you.

You can select bass clef and difficulty levels from whole notes to 16ths, #, b, rests etc.

[T-Bay]

Yousician can do this, you can set it to show notes instead of fret numbers so,it forces you to learn them. I like it overall and it’s free for the ten minute a day lessons. I used it a fair bit when I started and still go back occasionally now.

[mcnach]

55 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

Yousician can do this, you can set it to show notes instead of fret numbers so,it forces you to learn them. I like it overall and it’s free for the ten minute a day lessons. I used it a fair bit when I started and still go back occasionally now.

 

Interesting. I read about it and thought it would do what I wanted... but I downloaded the app and didn't see how to. It seemed geared towards pre-determined lessons. I gave up on it. I'll try again and see if I find how to do that.

[T-Bay]

1 minute ago, mcnach said:

 

Interesting. I read about it and thought it would do what I wanted... but I downloaded the app and didn't see how to. It seemed geared towards pre-determined lessons. I gave up on it. I'll try again and see if I find how to do that.

On the iPad you can select whether it shows free numbers or notes in the setttings, it will then do that whether you use the lessons or justbtrawl the song archive. I will log on and see if I can get some screenshots for you.

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, visog said:

Hmm have tried similar things myself but playing 'Guitar Hero' is not playing music and vice versa.

My recommendation is Sight Reading Machine: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sight-reading-machine-practice-music-reading-skill/id662692296

Presents random scores - gives you the opportunity to play them then plays them for you.

You can select bass clef and difficulty levels from whole notes to 16ths, #, b, rests etc.

 

That looks interesting too, unfortunately iOS only, so that's out for us... (windows/linux & android here)

[T-Bay]

Here you go, click notation on bottom left and you the options above.

[uk_lefty]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Nothing wrong with that, but it's still an enormous advantage and achievement to have a complete knowledge of the instrument from an academic standpoint. Tunes are fine, but so is knowing where the notes are.

Agree completely. But as a beginner would I feel more progress knowing where the notes are (it follows the order of letters in the alphabet plus a few sharps) or knowing some tunes? I know which worked for me. Not in any way criticising the intentions, learning where the notes are is important, but if you aren't doing anything with those notes... I just think learning some songs is more effective for a beginner.

[T-Bay]

15 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Agree completely. But as a beginner would I feel more progress knowing where the notes are (it follows the order of letters in the alphabet plus a few sharps) or knowing some tunes? I know which worked for me. Not in any way criticising the intentions, learning where the notes are is important, but if you aren't doing anything with those notes... I just think learning some songs is more effective for a beginner.

I think you need both, when I started (less than two years ago) the fun of learning songs was what drove me to practice more, learning the notes enabled me to interact with the rest of the band. After a while you feel a bit of a prat going ‘what string what fret?’ Rather than ‘are we finishing on the A?’ Or whatever. The fundamental relationships cross the fretboard such as the 5th fret/ string down or two down two across for the octave make playing so much easier when you know them and that tends to come from more direct practice than learning songs or did for me anyway.

[mcnach]

6 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Agree completely. But as a beginner would I feel more progress knowing where the notes are (it follows the order of letters in the alphabet plus a few sharps) or knowing some tunes? I know which worked for me. Not in any way criticising the intentions, learning where the notes are is important, but if you aren't doing anything with those notes... I just think learning some songs is more effective for a beginner.

 

You are right: knowing what to do with them rather than just knowing where they are is an important part of making it fun.

In the case of my girlfriend, I was using some slow/midtempo basic ska and reggae rhythms to show her how if you know you have an Am chord coming, and you know where A is, there is a simple 'pattern' that gives you the basic 1-3-5 scale notes that will form the chord, and if it's minor you get another easy pattern, and both patterns share the 1 and 5. When I was showing her that it was a bit of a revelation to her, and seemed to make her realise that learning *some* form of theory, even as superbasic as that, can come handy... and of course, as you progress and learn more complicated things they will also have useful applications straight away.

That was what prompted me to look for an app to learn where the notes are. My initial plan was to just start with maybe 4 notes... and I can play a rhythm on my guitar and just shout what chord will come next and for her to just play root notes... and little by little expand adding more (a bit like how Ed Friedland starts on his BUilding Walking Bass Lines - a fantastic book)... but what she can do by herself effectively is play a game that helps her remember/visualise the notes on her bass. I guess both parts can be combined, but she can work on the note recognition by herself easily and she said a 'game' like that would help her not get bored.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by mcnach

[mcnach]

57 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

I think you need both, when I started (less than two years ago) the fun of learning songs was what drove me to practice more, learning the notes enabled me to interact with the rest of the band. After a while you feel a bit of a prat going ‘what string what fret?’ Rather than ‘are we finishing on the A?’ Or whatever. The fundamental relationships cross the fretboard such as the 5th fret/ string down or two down two across for the octave make playing so much easier when you know them and that tends to come from more direct practice than learning songs or did for me anyway.

 

Indeed.

Many years ago I went for an audition with a local band... I had heard nothing, they said just come along and you'll pick it up fast...

I showed up, they put a stand in front of me with lyrics and chords roughly written above, and said "let's go, 1,2, 3..."

At that stage, I was not aware of knowing where the notes were. If I wanted a B, I'd need time to count slowly the notes from an open string up. Until that moment, I had been happy playing guitar by myself at home, recording basic stuff with a drum machine, and I had a bass to go dum dum dum along, that's pretty much it (ok, a bit more than that, but not much more).

Rabbit in the headlights moment... fortunately, the 1,2,3,4 was delayed a bit as they talked about something... I scanned the sheet for chords, found there were just 5 chords in the whole thing, identified the root notes... and away we went. The second song went a bit better. After 40 minutes of that I felt pretty confident (even if limited to a few notes per chord) and I was able to start 'exploring' a bit further as the bases were covered and I could now be a bit more creative. It was pretty interesting that I already had realised that there were a bunch of 'patterns' that worked well in certain contexts, I just had never stopped to think that I was just playing notes in the relevant scale... now I did and felt pretty silly for having ignored all that as "too difficult, I just want to have a little fun and don't have teh time to invest on the kind of time that this would require".

The audition ended, and I went home thinking "notes, huh... I must get those in my brain, they seem pretty useful when playing with others", and that's what made me want to learn a bit. I used to be in awe of people who could just show up and play... then I knew "ah, so they're not mind readers! They learnt the language of music! Maybe I can learn a little too" :D (of course, on top of that you get each individual's creativity, and that's when you get really interesting players, but that's another chapter).

Having a practical appl;ication for the things you learn helps you stay motivated.

 

[mcnach]

2 hours ago, T-Bay said:

Here you go, click notation on bottom left and you the options above.

 

Oh, so this is always in the context of a given song? That's why I could not find it. I expected to find it as a training exercise or something. I'll check it out when I get home, thanks!

 

[Bolo]

A tuner with a good display could help?

[mcnach]

5 hours ago, Bolo said:

A tuner with a good display could help?

 

A tuner doesn't shout "Bb" and then "oops, wrong" when you play an A...

Unless you mean my old friend Bill, who was a piano tuner. But he's pretty busy these days  

[mcnach]

Yousician looks pretty cool, but it's not what I wanted...

"Bass Guitar Note Trainer" has a mode (Note Practicum) that is *almost* what I wanted. It'll ask for a note and it chooses a string where you have to play that note on your bass. Well, that and many other 'games'... The microphone is a bit sensitive it seems and room noises makes the game thing you played a note (incorrectly, most times)... but maybe there's a way to calibrate it or just find a better place to set my phone...

 

[DaytonaRik]

Have a look at Fretuoso - definitely available from the Apple store and probably on other hardware platforms.