Do the best pro-bass players mainly play 4 strings?

[thepurpleblob]

I wonder sometimes if the Fender Precision/Jazz is the staple of music videos because that's "the look" they want to go for rather than the instrument normally played. 

I prefer to play a 5, but it's party laziness. I'd be quite happy to play a 4 string something-or-other with a Hipshot thingy for a couple of songs -- but then I'd have to learn to play in drop-D properly 😂

[EliasMooseblaster]

33 minutes ago, thepurpleblob said:

I wonder sometimes if the Fender Precision/Jazz is the staple of music videos because that's "the look" they want to go for rather than the instrument normally played.

I'd like to think I'm doing my bit to fight this homogeneity: every music video I've done with the band, I've ended up "playing" either one of my Gibson-style basses or the Hagstrom 8-string. (Even on one song where I'd actually used a glorified Precision copy on the original recording...)

[chris_b]

There are lots of mod's that can be added to a bass but, as 5 string players are always posting and 4 string players are constantly failing to understand, a 5 string bass is not just about the lower notes. The main benefits also include the flexibility to play different lines, in different positions and in keys which are sometimes more appropriate to the song. 

A 5 string bass is not a 4 string bass with an extra string. It is an instrument in its own right with different possibilities and techniques.

Adding gadgets to get a lower note and thinking that is a substitute for a 5 string bass is to completely miss the point. It's on a par with the misconception that EQing the neck pickup can make a Jazz sound anything like a P bass and that an electric bass can sound like a double bass if you fiddle around with the EQ enough.

[chris_b]

47 minutes ago, thepurpleblob said:

I wonder sometimes if the Fender Precision/Jazz is the staple of music videos because that's "the look" they want to go for rather than the instrument normally played.

Exactly. Don't believe everything you see. Hire companies do good business hiring out vintage and "special" instruments for TV shows. 

[Lozz196]

1 minute ago, chris_b said:

Exactly. Don't believe everything you see. Hire companies do good business hiring out vintage and "special" instruments for TV shows. 

Yeah I`ve always been a tad suspicious of bands that seem to play really old hollow-body guitars etc in their vids, when the sound would suggest something rather more modern had been used on the recording.

[Graham]

Jam Artis who plays for Bruno Mars is particularly guilty (is that the right word?) of this, listening to the recordings, he definitely regularly uses a five string when recording, but mostly uses a Fender style 4 in videos/live performance.

[stingrayPete1977]

2 hours ago, Graham said:

Jam Artis who plays for Bruno Mars is particularly guilty (is that the right word?) of this, listening to the recordings, he definitely regularly uses a five string when recording, but mostly uses a Fender style 4 in videos/live performance.

Yep, I bet that red precision never even went to the studio. 

[neilp]

On 14/07/2018 at 11:37, steve-bbb said:

can we safely assume you have not tried enough 5 or 6 strings in that you seem to safely make this sweeping generalisation

i'd agree that a great number of lower budget 5s and 6s may not have a very satisfactory low end but from experience of owning an early 90s TRB6 i can assure you they are anything but that which you claim - try one out when you get the opportunity, they are a bit rare now but if you get the opportunity you will be very surprised

Nobody listens on the internet do they? I think that's something nobody can argue with. I don't like playing 5 string basses, and the ones I have played have not satisfied me sonically. Given that I don't like them, and have no regular need of one, why would I spend ANY of my time trying them? If you like yours, great, go to it, you're not wrong. When I need one, I borrow a Stingray, which is OK, but I don't enjoy playing it AT ALL. Have your view, it's all subjective. I'm not wrong any more than you are.

[neilp]

On 14/07/2018 at 12:28, thepurpleblob said:

Nah - I think you're wrong. What I do think is that 5 (and by extension 6 string) basses have a lot more variation. There are, effectively, de-facto standards for the 4 string (Mr Fender's creations) but these don't exist for the 5-string basses. Although I can't prove it, I'm going to suggest that's it harder (== more expensive) to produce a good 5 string than a good 4 string. Really, the E-G strings shouldn't be any different from a 4 and the B is what sorts the men from the boys. After sifting through quite a few 5s, you should come and have a go on my Yamaha TRB5 or my Lakland 5. They took some tracking down and the Lakland (USA) was a lot more expensive than I might have liked.

I'm glad you've found something that does it for you. I have too, and they all have 4 strings. I'm perfectly happy with them, and every time I've tried a five, I can't wait to get back to my basses. That's me, not you. I'm happy, hope you're happy too....

I really don't have any interest in spending time playing 5 string basses. I'd rather be making music than struggling with kit I don't want or need

 

[Graham]

4 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

You may well be right, however, I know when I had to learn 24K Magic, it was a damned sight easier playing it on a detuned 4 string than on a 5.

But then that's synth bass not electric

[thepurpleblob]

54 minutes ago, neilp said:

I'm glad you've found something that does it for you. I have too, and they all have 4 strings. I'm perfectly happy with them, and every time I've tried a five, I can't wait to get back to my basses. That's me, not you. I'm happy, hope you're happy too....

I really don't have any interest in spending time playing 5 string basses. I'd rather be making music than struggling with kit I don't want or need

 

Absolutely - I in no way disagree with you in that respect. I'm just suggesting that if you have the urge to play a 5 string I think it's a bigger challenge to find a 5 that suits as there is more variation. 

If you don't care (and I sympathise as there is a hell of a lot of stuff I have neither the time nor the inclination to give a stuff about) then it doesn't matter at all. 

[Graham]

1 hour ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Looking at the credits for the three Bruno Mars albums, Jamareo Artis doesn’t appear on any of them, so how can he be guilty as charged?

I learnt 24K Magic from the Live Lounge version where he plays a detuned 4 string.

Not having the sleeves to hand, I'd assume they're writing rather than performance cedits.

I've not heard the live lounge version, if a downtuned bass works better than an extended range one for that part (which wouldn't surprise me if it's following other synths) then it definetly makes more sense to play a four as you did.

[Al Krow]

37 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

One of the bands I’m in is an 80’s band and I need a 5 string to play 80% of the set as recorded. I could play it up an octave, but it would not sound the same. First note of I Think We’re Alone Now is that low D and there’s no getting round the fact that anything else sounds wrong. Second note of Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now is the low Eb - completely wrong up an octave. Real Gone Kid - the low C in the intro; it’s got to be there. There are many more examples. 

Folk do (rightly) say it's not all about the low notes and that being able to play in different positions and not having to go up and down the fret-board like a yo-yo are important benefits of playing a 5 string. These are indeed real plus points.

But having low notes is not just about being able to play the low notes themselves (which can, of course, be really satisfying). It's about being able to play the entire song an octave lower* than on a 4 string in anything originally written in Eb, D or C** or alternatively being able to transpose down to a D or C to accommodate a vocalist. That also seems to me to be a massive plus.

The weird thing is these points seem so "self evidently true" as being potentially big plus points, I'm a little surprised that more 'pro' bass players haven't cottoned on in terms of using 5 strings as 'standard'?

 

* So much so that I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that my octave down pedal is going to be redundant when playing with a 5er - but that's maybe for another thread!  

**I don't think that there's been too much pop / rock originally written in B, given that it has 5 #s in its key signature!

[Cuzzie]

So the question for the 5 bangers to extrapolate is how difficult is it to play most of the requisite songs on a down or drop tuned 4 compared to a 5 banger.

24k magic as others have said is an example of how 4 beats 5 on this occasion.

@Al Krow I think we have established that most pro players will use the tool for the job.

We also know that most pro bands down tune Half or whole steps for the singer for their voice live (getting away from metal for the ‘heavy’ Factor Maroon5 are an example) so doing it in other keys is not a massive issue

[tthiggins]

Bleedin ell 119 replies to a question when a simple YES would of sufficed 

[Dad3353]

... or 'No'. 

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, tthiggins said:

Bleedin ell 119 replies to a question when a simple YES would of sufficed 

A man of few words, which is not necessarily a bad thing. (Unless you're fronting a band or happen to be a vocalist or a newsreader, of course).

But thanks for clearing the question up for us so succinctly; we can all rest more easily now... 😁

 

[Al Krow]

Just now, Dad3353 said:

... or 'No'. 

Errr, can't be both which is it then?! 😂

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Errr, can't be both which is it then?! 😂

Well, you see, it's actually a tad more complex than an initial hasty reading of the question could have one believe. There is the knotty question of what, exactly, is meant by 'pro' (I'm not sure that any consensus has ever been reached on this point...), or any time-scale set as, for example, the 5-string option was not really available to those choosing the electric bass from its inception. This, in itself, leads to an awkward decision: does 'bass' in this debate (for debate it certainly is...) mean simply electric bass, or does the erstwhile acoustic double bass figure in the equation, and if not, why not..? No, I fear that there is a great deal more (continued on page 27...)

[tthiggins]

16 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

A man of few words, which is not necessarily a bad thing. (Unless you're fronting a band or happen to be a vocalist or a newsreader, of course).

But thanks for clearing the question up for us so succinctly; we can all rest more easily now... 😁

 

No problem 👍

[drTStingray]

Al Krow, if you'd asked the same question in say 1999 you would have got a completely different answer - as many pro players played 5 string then and certainly on a lot of pop music of the time. This was largely because of the need for low notes (sometimes written for keyboard) and also because playing two octaves in one and a bit positions, made playing some music relatively easy - however a word of caution - like playing E at 12 th fret on the E string of a 4 string sounds different from E at the 7th fret of A or 2nd fret of D, that fat B sting can also change the timbre if things. Hiram K has pointed out the use of 5 strings in 80s work very clearly - it applies in the 90s extensively and also 2000s and beyond. 

Some of us may even remember what a spent force the Fender Bass was in the early 80s - indeed bass guitar generally as keyboards and drum machines seemingly took over a great deal. 

Its entirely possible to use a 4 string and tune down effectively but many people find this a faff - my son does this often but doesn't have a 5 string (though has borrowed one of mine on occasion  and loves them).

Unfortunately our educators and seemingly many others fixate on 60s and 70s bass history and as a result we get a distorted view of music and instrument history - I'm very doubtful the demographic on this forum represents a balanced view so the fact a lot of people may say - oh just tune down a 4 string, when they possibly don't even have any experience of playing music recorded on or best played on a 5 string, and in any case the common perception (an error) is you should be able to play anything on a 4 string, is probably completely wrong along with many other commonly held myths of Internet bassdom!! 

5 strings may be seen as a bit passé (along with Fretless) in these days of sometimes inaudible bass parts played on vintage instruments - 5 strings certainly aren't passé in the real world and anyone playing anything remotely R and B from the 80s and 90s (even 70s) will probably need to use one - the fact they can make 60s R and B sound good as well is a bonus - ask some of the bassists in top West End shows 😏

Edited July 16, 2018 by drTStingray

[Bridgehouse]

6 pages in and nobody has yet definitively stated who are the “best pro-players” let alone whether in percentage terms they play 4 strings more than any other strings

[drTStingray]

6 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

6 pages in and nobody has yet definitively stated who are the “best pro-players” let alone whether in percentage terms they play 4 strings more than any other strings

If you think a balanced view and statistically valid result can be obtained of such things on this type of forum then I think you're expecting too much - for starters there are hardly any Ric players here, seemingly, and yet in real life I see loads of them!!

Edited July 16, 2018 by drTStingray

[Cuzzie]

When we say pro-bass do we mean for bass as opposed to against-bass?

[Cuzzie]

For the record on my behalf, I don’t play a 5er, I do go to drop D or normal tuning be it half a step down or not.

Only reason I don’t play a 5er - never had to go beneath a Drop tuning regularly enough to warrant it, and it keeps bass real estate to a minimum thus not triggering the wrath of her indoors. If I got into 5’s as well, there would be no hope for me...

nowt against any folk using whatever strings they want, and to be fair, I could probably use a 2 string

Edited July 16, 2018 by Cuzzie