'Offensive' And 'Sexist' Guitar Pedal Effect

[Sibob]

8 minutes ago, fleabag said:

I'm going to build a pedal and name it the Kock Shredder and see how many men complain

Dude, no-one will because men haven't been historically marginalised by society......seriously, this is what I meant by "the forum being overwhelmingly made up of what I suspect is to be white men, it's worth us checking our understanding and approach before crying 'the worlds gone mad'".....this is now aimed at you!

Si

[fleabag]

I'm black though ?

[Sibob]

3 minutes ago, fleabag said:

I'm black though ?

Awesome, are you female?
It wouldn't be great if a company released a 'Black Person Melter' pedal, where the description (parody or not) is 'wahey, lynching is fun, here's a pedal that sounds like that'? Presumably because it's an abhorrent idea and largely society is against it.......so why is the same thing not considered when we talk about gender? It's an extreme example, but hopefully you take my point.

Your comments seem to be coming completely from a place of male privilege, even if you have personal experience of a different area of society. Yes you might have experienced marginalisation, but it's not the type we're talking about here.
If anything, you should be fairly sympathetic to the issues at hand because you understand that most white people haven't had your experience due to operating from a position of relative privilege. There are obviously lots of exceptions within that, there are rich privileged black people and poor underprivileged white people, but I suspect those are minority cases on a global average.

Si

[fleabag]

Lynching ? So we've moved on to murder now ?

How do you know i'm not female ?  You're making assumptions. Typical male

[Sibob]

14 minutes ago, fleabag said:

Lynching ? So we've moved on to murder now ?

How do you know i'm not female ?  You're making assumptions. Typical male

Well I did ask the question Pete, and you avoided it....typical male 

Si

Edited July 18, 2018 by Sibob

[fleabag]

Fair play Si    

I've been flushed out

Edited July 18, 2018 by fleabag

[ahpook]

1 hour ago, Sibob said:

I think part of the issue that is that some people find it difficult to see the subtle but important difference between 'P*ssy Power' & 'P*ssy Melter', therein lies an issue of a wider understanding of gender issues. It's worth highlighting that it's almost certainly not the word 'P*ssy' that is 'offensive' to people, it's the aggressive nature of the full name (backed up by the tone prints description).

....

Si

/Stands, applauds/

[ahpook]

Actually, how about a 'Sausage Fest' pedal - one knob, to control the bias.

No footswitch of course...it's an  'always on' kind of effect.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by ahpook

[BigRedX]

Sibob is completely right...

But what worries me about this situation is why now and why this particular pedal, a pedal with a parody name from a parody band, when there are plenty of pedals from other manufacturers who appear to be far more serious about their sexism when it comes to naming their products.

And while many of these companies are far too small to have generated this level of attention for their inappropriately named products, the "grandaddy" of them all Electro Harmonix are hardly insignificant in the musical equipment business and have been "offending" since their Muff Fuzz pedal in the late 60s.

I can't help but think that this is more about publicity for a rather dull and anonymous band and ultimately will do the cause of fighting sexism in the music industry more harm than good.

[dlloyd]

14 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Sibob is completely right...

But what worries me about this situation is why now and why this particular pedal, a pedal with a parody name from a parody band, when there are plenty of pedals from other manufacturers who appear to be far more serious about their sexism when it comes to naming their products.

I think that distinction requires that you're in on the joke. I've never heard of Steel Panther, I doubt many people have. It's not obvious that it's a joke.

 

[BigRedX]

4 minutes ago, dlloyd said:

I think that distinction requires that you're in on the joke. I've never heard of Steel Panther, I doubt many people have. It's not obvious that it's a joke.

Less than 30 seconds with Google will enlighten you. The first search result is their Wikipedia entry which starts:

Quote

Steel Panther is an American comedic glam metal band from Los Angeles, California, mostly known for their profane and humorous lyrics, as well as their ...

There is absolutely zero excuse for being uninformed these days.

Edited July 19, 2018 by BigRedX

[dlloyd]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Less than 30 seconds with Google will enlighten you. The first search result is their Wikipedia entry which starts:

There is absolutely zero excuse for being uninformed these days.

They're an obscure comedy band and within their sphere of influence the joke is probably hilarious. Present it to the wider public without any indication of context and there will be people who either don't realise it's a joke or who just don't find it funny. 

[BigRedX]

But if you were going to complain about the effect, would it not have been a good idea to do some research on the band behind it before kicking up a fuss? And had a look at the general boutique pedal market where this sort of thing is fairly common place?

Also I can't help but wonder what an electronic band like Braids are doing looking into an effect primarily aimed at guitarists? It all makes me think they must have tried fairly hard in order to get offended in the first place. None of this IMO does the anti-sexism cause any favours.

EDIT: I've never heard any music by Steel Panther and I'm hardly a metal fan, but I have heard of the band and know that they are a complete parody of that genre.

Edited July 19, 2018 by BigRedX

[Daz39]

26 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

But if you were going to complain about the effect, would it not have been a good idea to do some research on the band behind it before kicking up a fuss? And had a look at the general boutique pedal market where this sort of thing is fairly common place?

Also I can't help but wonder what an electronic band like Braids are doing looking into an effect primarily aimed at guitarists? It all makes me think they must have tried fairly hard in order to get offended in the first place. None of this IMO does the anti-sexism cause any favours.

EDIT: I've never heard any music by Steel Panther and I'm hardly a metal fan, but I have heard of the band and know that they are a complete parody of that genre.

No - it's not up to the reader/viewer to research whether they are right to be offended. if they find it offensive, it's offensive.

anti-sexism cause? You mean common sense. How do you know how they came by the story? It's judging their intent - they could have been specifically asked the question by a journalist who knows they're liberal and wanted to see their reaction.

 

[dlloyd]

53 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

But if you were going to complain about the effect, would it not have been a good idea to do some research on the band behind it before kicking up a fuss? And had a look at the general boutique pedal market where this sort of thing is fairly common place?

Also I can't help but wonder what an electronic band like Braids are doing looking into an effect primarily aimed at guitarists? It all makes me think they must have tried fairly hard in order to get offended in the first place. None of this IMO does the anti-sexism cause any favours.

EDIT: I've never heard any music by Steel Panther and I'm hardly a metal fan, but I have heard of the band and know that they are a complete parody of that genre.

The origin of the discussion appears to have been this petition:

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tcelectronicpresetpetition

The author is a gear reviewer: http://www.bestguitareffects.com/author/jessica-fennelly/

Edited July 19, 2018 by dlloyd
additional detail

[MacDaddy]

26 minutes ago, Daz39 said:

No - it's not up to the reader/viewer to research whether they are right to be offended. if they find it offensive, it's offensive.

 

not necessarily so. If you find the word 'bollocks' (b0ll0cks in case the filter gets triggered!) offensive, I can tell you that you are wrong, because the verdict of Glitterbest/Virgin vs The Crown 1977 ruled it not to be.

[MacDaddy]

Just now, MacDaddy said:

not necessarily so. If you find the word 'bollocks' (b0ll0cks in case the filter gets triggered!) offensive, I can tell you that you are wrong, because the verdict of Glitterbest/Virgin vs The Crown 1977 ruled it not to be.

ha! the filter follows legal precedent. As Johnny Rotten was quoted leaving the courtroom “Great! Bollocks is legal. Bollocks! Bollocks! Bollocks!”

[Jack]

I can confirm that Steel Panther have many female fans. Fiancée was on their, erm, 'breast camera' last time we went. This is not necessarily relevant to the discussion, I just enjoy mentioning that and bragging whenever I can.

[paul_5]

I don't see it as massively offensive, just puerile, immature 'humour'. If that's how you want to live your life then carry on.

Good luck.

[paul_5]

On 18/07/2018 at 17:39, ahpook said:

Actually, how about a 'Sausage Fest' pedal - one knob, to control the bias.

No footswitch of course...it's an  'always on' kind of effect.

 

How about a one knob fuzz? Easy enough to build, even easier to market - available with different sizes of knob; of course the bigger the knob, the more you pay...

Edited July 19, 2018 by paul_5

[Beedster]

On 18/07/2018 at 16:12, Sibob said:

I think part of the issue that is that some people find it difficult to see the subtle but important difference between 'P*ssy Power' & 'P*ssy Melter', therein lies an issue of a wider understanding of gender issues. It's worth highlighting that it's almost certainly not the word 'P*ssy' that is 'offensive' to people, it's the aggressive nature of the full name (backed up by the tone prints description).

Now, of course, Steel Panther are a complete parody, they very much subscribe to the South Park/Team America ethos of 'as long as you take the pee out of everyone equally, you're fine', which actually I'm fine with.....they're fully aware that they come across as sad, washed up old rockers with outdated views on women....that's the point, it's a commentary on the 80's & 90's rock scene......just so happens they can shred too. Without knowing any numbers, I suspect SP have as many female fans as they do male fans, because everyone understands the parody, and they like the comedic music. If there is a lack of understanding as to what the band is exactly, again, that's a damning indictment of a wider lack of education around gender issues. Again, it's important to re-iterate that SP are characters, when Satchell responded about the TC thing, that was Satchell typing from his account, not Russ Parrish, the married 47yr old dad who plays the character.

However, take Steel Panther's approach out of context, take it away from the show and the fans and the bands self-effacing ridiculousness, and it starts to hit a little bit close to home for a lot of women's everyday experiences. Parody is a fine line, and it requires a fair amount of set-up and context in order to work, which is why I suspect TC took it down......should someone at TC have figured this out before they posted it like 2 years ago? Probably, how many females are working in their marketing department I wonder, let alone their engineering team?! (Women in engineering is a whole other discussion). 

But as this, and the few other examples of mildly misogynistic names highlights, the gear industry has had some catching up to do. Fortunately, the prevalence of things like 'booth girls' at NAMM and other such shows being something that has (thankfully) decreased as manufacturers realise that they are simply alienating potential customers (Fender cite that 50% of their new customers are female: https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercarbonara/2018/03/28/for-fender-guitars-the-future-is-digital-and-female/#1f1f3d7e4a37). Names of products I feel are simply on the company, if they want to alienate and exclude certain potential customers, fine, if they wish to attract the wrong type of male customer who misunderstand the 'joke', let them, it's their livelihood. Again, I suspect that's why TC took it down, not because they felt the need to censor after a petition forced their hand, but because they feel they made a mistake about something and would prefer not to lose customers over it.

As to why people have picked up on this as opposed to focussing on sexism in rap music? I suspect it's because for female guitarist who's onto rock music, this is in their back-yard and one that has been difficult enough to get accepted by as it is. If they have no interest in rap, they're probably not going to jump in on issues within a world they don't understand, especially if they're white. However, if something becomes important to them within the world that they reside (the guitar gear world), they're going to jump on it as something they're directly involved with.

It's a massive discussion, and clearly goes much further than just women who play guitar, but with this forum being overwhelmingly made up of what I suspect is to be white men, it's worth us checking our understanding and approach before crying 'the worlds gone mad' (not aimed at anyone, just a general statement).

Si

 

 

Great post

[MacDaddy]

it's a good job The Macc Lads never got endorsed...

[skankdelvar]

The joyous paradox at the heart of the Steel Panther phenomenon is that the act savagely satirises sexist morons while attracting bitter opprobrium from earnest one-step thinkers eager to display their opposition to moronic sexism. Moreover, what of those rawk'n'roll fans who think the band's actually for real and who applaud the sexism, yee-haw? Are those individuals the primary target or just collateral damage? 

Indeed, where does one stand if one if one enjoys the fact that other people are offended by Steel Panther precisely because their offence is founded on a shallow reading of the proposition and a consequent rush to judgement which leads their foot unerringly to the landmine? Does it make one a 'bad' person if one slaps one's thigh when knee-jerk evaluations lead people to make fools of themselves?

I suppose almost any kind of reaction to the band - knowing or unknowing, positive or negative - could be seen as taking the bait. For myself, while no great fan I enjoy the music I've heard and the reaction they provoke. Which makes me just another sucker, I suppose.

Edited July 20, 2018 by skankdelvar

[dlloyd]

31 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

The joyous paradox at the heart of the Steel Panther phenomenon is that the act savagely satirises sexist morons while attracting bitter opprobrium from earnest one-step thinkers eager to display their opposition to moronic sexism. Moreover, what of those rawk'n'roll fans who think the band's actually for real and who applaud the sexism, yee-haw? Are those individuals the primary target or just collateral damage? 

It's not just those that think they're for real... there will be a sizable proportion of the band's following who know they're a comedy band and know that the joke is about sexism but think the message is that sexism is funny.

[skankdelvar]

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