EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Dad3353 said: Be careful, now; you've been warned. It's a slippery slope, and you've soap on your soles... Is the joke that they appear to have scores in front of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Be careful, now; you've been warned. It's a slippery slope, and you've soap on your soles... Got it... we all thought they were gearing up to play "Walk of Life" at 0:29? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, EBS_freak said: Background reading - whilst I'm open to the idea of reading about it - seems an odd prerequisite in order to get this music also. I thought music was a universal language. Maybe not. But as alluded to, I don't get the Smiths either. So maybe thing aren't as straight forward as you'd think. OK, before judging you, my question is this. If I came around you house for a BBQ and you went to put some music on... would you ever consider putting this sort of stuff on? What sort of environment would you typical listen to this stuff in? I could kind of get it if it was a meditative thing... you know, lying in bed, sleeping mask on, headphones and chilling out in a zen like fashion... but I think a lot of stuff in this thread would make me want to go on a killing spree. And I include the Smiths in that. Ok, the reading would be a bit of a last resort. That said, it can be useful for filling in some of the blanks. On the judgement thing, as I said already you're welcome to form whatever judgement you like. Would I play it at a barbeque? Not in a million years. I also said up near the top of the thread that it's an acquired taste that requires an attitude adjustment. I don't think many of it's practitioners would claim that they're trying to appeal to a wide audience. It did have something of a golden period during the '60s and '70s (which is when I was going to gigs by the likes of Coxhill, Parker and Henry Cow feat. Fred Frith and listening to stuff by Stockhausen, Cage and Reich), but I don't think anybody would ever claim it as mainstream. I would hope most would agree that music is an art form whose main aim is to elicit an emotional response. If I'm honest I haven't listened to any free improv for many years (aside from the odd episode), but this thread has made me realise how much a part of my musical upbringing it was. You just have to learn to set aside some of your preconceptions about what music is, and what makes something a musical performance. I guess I had the advantage of being exposed to it at an early age, before I'd had time to set my views in stone. One other point that might be worth making is that it's actually quite a broad church: one the one hand Parker, Bailey et. al. are a bit out there, whereas people like Stockhausen, Riley and Reich are coming at it more from a classical standpoint but requiring performers to add something of themselves to the performance in a way that wouldn't normally be the case. Some is completely unscripted (which purists would argue is the essence of the form), whereas other pieces are written down but with the explicit proviso that the performers will improvise to a greater or lesser degree. For example, I was once asked to take part in a performance of a piece by David Bedford. The 'notation' looked like nothing I'd ever seen before, and was about as close to standard notation as chalk is to cheese. The idea was that although the sequence of events and the general - changing - mood of the piece were scripted, the actual sounds made during the performance were left completely at the discretion of the performers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 Big in the 60 and 70s you say? So was LSD. Hmm... Its true what you say about music bringing an emotive response. This sort of stuff actually makes me quite angry - so maybe thats a valid form of response... a response that said authors may or may have not been going for... but they have succeeded in some sort of emotional attachment. That's got to be a more interesting response than indifference I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: Big in the 60 and 70s you say? So was LSD. Hmm... Its true what you say about music bringing an emotive response. This sort of stuff actually makes me quite angry - so maybe thats a valid form of response... a response that said authors may or may have not been going for... but they have succeeded in some sort of emotional attachment. That's got to be a more interesting response than indifference I guess. I also mentioned attitude adjustment. Just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 What happened to the days of just putting a CD on and just listening? It seems this improv stuff is a complete mission. Right, attitude adjustment... an hour of Qigong should get me there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: What happened to the days of just putting a CD on and just listening? It seems this improv stuff is a complete mission. Right, attitude adjustment... an hour of Qigong should get me there. You’re doing it all wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, AndyTravis said: You’re doing it all wrong... I give up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: I give up! You’re not allowed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 Just now, AndyTravis said: You’re not allowed to. I feel like I'm in a really obvious game within the Crystal Maze now, wearing an ill fitting jump suit, knowing full well that everybody at home behind the tele is shouting at me, "What a Richard!, just freaking listen and get it already you ****!". 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: ...just freaking listen and get it already... But there's nothing to 'get'..! If it doesn't have a positive effect on you, just give it a miss, surely..? A looped recording of half a ton of empty beer bottles and silver cutlery being rolled down the stairs of a lighthouse appeals to me very little, and if I heard such, and my ears proved me right, I'd not repeat the audition. Others may dance and clap with glee, and wax lyrical as to its relevance to modern thinking; so..? I'd still not like it, and would avoid hearing it again. Let the children play, I say; the dogs bark, the caravan passes. Edited July 22, 2018 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Let the children play, I say; the dogs bark, the caravan passes. Sounds like a Pink Floyd lyric to me... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 25 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: A looped recording of half a ton of empty beer bottles and silver cutlery being rolled down the stairs of a lighthouse Don’t care how it sounds - I just want to see the video.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, EBS_freak said: 1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said: Have some Fuze - only partly improvised and relatively sane but an easy way into microtonal stuff and weird keys. Ah, "microtonal" what a great term. Such a fine line between extending the boundaries and parameters of modern music and playing out of tune😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, leschirons said: Such a fine line between extending the boundaries and parameters of modern music and playing out of tune😂 Out of tune is a relative term... If we were only talking about our standard western system of 8 note scales within a 12 tone octave, fair enough. If you listened to Schoenberg, he'd be making music where all 12 tones are equal - that sounds "out of tune" and dissonant if you're only used to the 8 notes we usually use. However, if you use an interval between notes that isn't an Equal Temperament such as the Chinese tuning, that also sounds "out of tune" to us. Then you can use notes that are between our 12 tones - like somewhere between E and F - which would be microtones as used by Mr Fuze above, not easy on a guitar without it being fretless! But more notes means more possibilities, I'm sure we'll soon hear songs in the charts composed using the Bohlen Pierce scale, like this 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: Out of tune is a relative term... If we were only talking about our standard western system of 8 note scales within a 12 tone octave, fair enough. If you listened to Schoenberg, he'd be making music where all 12 tones are equal - that sounds "out of tune" and dissonant if you're only used to the 8 notes we usually use. However, if you use an interval between notes that isn't an Equal Temperament such as the Chinese tuning, that also sounds "out of tune" to us. Then you can use notes that are between our 12 tones - like somewhere between E and F - which would be microtones as used by Mr Fuze above, not easy on a guitar without it being fretless! But more notes means more possibilities, I'm sure we'll soon hear songs in the charts composed using the Bohlen Pierce scale, like this 😁 ...or as an alternative, you could try listening to some classical Indian music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 What a great discussion my only insight would be that I get where Lennies composition entry style comes from , they have a style that is supposed to sound like they do 😎 Where as mine just end up sounding like they do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 This talk of microtonal stuff might persuade me that my rubbish attempts at fretless were actually materclasses in progressive modern musical style...! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) Microtonal stuff I can actually get with a bit more... for example, check out Mononeon's take on it. - but again, a fine line between music, muzak and complete out of tune BS. Edited July 22, 2018 by EBS_freak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: Microtonal stuff I can actually get with a bit more... for example, check out Mononeon's take on it. - but again, a fine line between music, muzak and complete out of tune BS. That’s got some great technique, control and tempo in it. The level of skill required to do what he is doing consistently must be really high. I actually don’t find that too bad at all - in fact, I’d go so far as to say if I was passing by a performance of this at a festival I would stay and hear it out and like it. The sock on the headstock tho....?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: Mononeon's take on it. It's very like Bill Laswell's "Baselines" album, though Mr Neon has elevated it by the addition of a sock. Also a hint a Squarepusher... Genius! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Bridgehouse said: The sock on the headstock tho....?! I take it you not seen Mononeon before? Started life as Polyneon. I reckon he's defo the one that is pushing boundaries at the moment... defo one to watch. Last bass player with Prince too. No small accolade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Leonard Smalls said: It's very like Bill Laswell's "Baselines" album, though Mr Neon has elevated it by the addition of a sock. Also a hint a Squarepusher... Genius! It's amazing how the addition of a sock can give everything clarity. Perhaps that what was missing from the performance in the opening post...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, EBS_freak said: Perhaps that what was missing from the performance in the opening post...? Enough already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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