Another D-class problem : want to replace my DB 751

[nonkel26]

Hi, sorry to bother you with another D-class amp question but I really need some help. I would like to replace my Aguilar DB 751 with a lightweight D-class amp. I like the sound and the power but he is just getting to heavy for me. So I ‘m thinking of replacing it with a good D-class amp. Thinking about a Trickfish bullhead 1K, a EBS Reidmar 750, a Glockenklang Blue Rock, … I know a digital amp is not comparable with a hybrid amp like my DB 751but I don’t want to give in on power and  would still like a good sound with a little warmth. I think I keep my Aguilar GS 412 cab to use with the D-class amp.

Because I am not in the possibility to give these amps a try, I want to try this way to see if someone has any experience with (one of) these amps. Is there anyone among you that could share his experience with these - or comparison of these amps? Any input is most welcome!

[Lozz196]

I`m pretty sure that I read on Talkbass that the Tonehammer is pretty DB like, might be worth checking out? If extra warmth needed then add in a DHA VT would be an easy way to do it.

[fretmeister]

Darkglass M900

 

Its great and very versatile. 

[nonkel26]

12 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

I`m pretty sure that I read on Talkbass that the Tonehammer is pretty DB like, might be worth checking out? If extra warmth needed then add in a DHA VT would be an easy way to do it.

I dont think The tonehammer has that amount of power. Some people recommend me the Trickfish Bullhead 1k to be a worthy replacement ...

[wateroftyne]

I think if this were possible, Aguilar would have pulled the plug on the DB-751 a long time ago.

Be prepared for disappointment, or at best, compromise.

[Al Krow]

You have one of the best amp heads around today, so I suspect your DB 751 is going to be a hard act to follow!

This thread may be worth you having a look through - I was on a similar quest for a quality D class head a year back:

Like @fretmeister I've ended up getting a DG M900 which has oodles of power, but it doesn't have the warmth of my Mesa M6 which has a very similar "architecture" to your DB 751 (in fact if I ever replaced my Mesa M6 a DB 751 would be at the very top of my list!)  So Lozz's broader suggestion of combining a quality D class with an excellent pre-amp could work very well.

The Trickfish Bulhead 1k has a quite a fan club, but more in the US than the UK. I did recently think about getting it myself but feedback from US bass players was that the TF was a bit of a side step from the DG M900 and noteworthy for you (as you've mentioned power being key), TF rather cheekily base their power rating on 'peak' power to arrive at "1k"; it's actually closer to 500W to 600W RMS at 8 ohms.

If I was going to provide you with a shortlist of high end D class amps to check out it would certainly include the following:

- Mesa D800 Plus (which btw is a definite step up from the Mesa D800)

- DG M900

- Genzler Magellan D800

A good review of all three was done by @Osiris and I'm sure he will provide you with a link if you're interested.

and also the newly released...

- Markbass Little Marcus 800

[HazBeen]

5 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I think if this were possible, Aguilar would have pulled the plug on the DB-751 a long time ago.

Be prepared for disappointment, or at best, compromise.

Exactly.... whilst D class has come of age the old big beasts still have something more 3D in their sound under certain conditions. I think it is down to the protection circuits (hard limiters or such)  built into the D class power stages, when pushed hard they kick in. At lower volumes the D class heads I tried were a close match to AB, when pushed hard they lost.

Personally I like the Mesa, Genzler, Trickfish and DG D class amps quite a lot, but the Jules Monique for me is the most reminiscent of a big Aggie or Mesa hybrid. You can buy them in a powered rack head version as well as loose pre/power amp.

But all opinion aside, use your ears when choosing and if possible do a lot of A/Bing with the DB751.

I use a Dclass head in low stage volume settings, full fat Mesa Big Block otherwise.

 

[Bigwan]

I'd be tempted to try a Quilter Bass Block with a Tonehammer DI in front of it... 

[nonkel26]

Thanx guys, the more I read the more I think about keeping the DB and take the weight for what it is.

[bassmayhem]

Try the tiny Quilter BassBlock 800...

[Mudpup]

19 minutes ago, bassmayhem said:

Try the tiny Quilter BassBlock 800...

yup, this.......

But if you need a really sparkly zingy sound you'll need a preamp in front of it - it's naturally a tiny bit treble shy imho. Fantastic bit of kit though - it seems to dodge the class D 'gets louder but loses the heft' as you turn them up. It has oodles of clean muscle available and a really good eq section as long as you spend 15 minutes understanding what the 2 knobs do. I love mine.......

Edited July 15, 2018 by Mudpup

[Osiris]

@nonkel26 The Genzler Magellan 800 sounds like it will fit your needs perfectly. It's powerful, loud, versatile and punchy. I've been gigging one for more than a year now and cannot fault it. 

See my review here and to see how it compared to some of its rivals, including the DarkGlass and Tone Hammer here.

And if weight is becoming an issue it might be wise to consider downsizing from your 4x12 cab too to a neodymium loaded cab, which will significantly reduce the weight but not the volume. 

[Sparky Mark]

Compared to an SVT (and most powerful tube heads) the DB751 is a relative lightweight at 42 lbs and still lighter than many 210/115/112 cabs that it is driving. Personally I think the extra 35 lbs load in/out is worth the effort given that you could be stood in front of it on a gig for 2 to 3 hours. If there's a medical reason for the downsizing then you maybe have no choice; otherwise stick with it as anything else could well be an expensive disappointment. 

[Jazzjames]

Most of the class D mini amps run the same power amp module. Some are satisfied with the sound, some not. I ran a tonehammer 500 for a long time, and does sound similar to the db751, but not in terms of presence in a mix.

 

I opted for the Quilter Bass Block, as it promised a bass focussed power amp with plenty of power, and a simple but flexible preamp. The guys at Quilter did a great job! I am very satisfied. At the price, it’s got to be worth a try.  And it comes with a carry bag. If you want (for example) a Darkglass MT900 and case, you can buy two Quilters!

[Muzz]

There's basically two 'Generations' of Class D amps out there, a lot running the older power amp module (which, I believe the TH500 is one), which had its detractors, and was the origins of the whole 'heft' thing, but the newer generation module in the Magellan, Mesa 800, Darkglass, etc, is a different animal in terms of presence and 'heft'. Unfortunately, an awful lot of people's negative perceptions of Class D is based on their experience of the first generation amps...

That being said, I think the OP will struggle to replace a db751, which is at the end of the day a £2500 amp, with a £5-600 amp...if weight is the issue, I'd agree with the folk above who have suggested keeping the 42lb amp and changing the 98lb cab for something half the weight...and there's plenty of options for that...

[chris_b]

IME the TH500 sounds great, the AG700 sounds better, the D800 was excellent and I like Markbass amps I've used. None of them sound anything like a DB751. I'd recommend a Thunderfunk if you want to stay with SS.

If the OP is thinking this amp is borderline too heavy now it certainly will be in the next year or so. I'd keep the DB751, get a replacement amp and use the time to get used to the sound. Do your homework, buy and sell until you find the right amp for you.

There are two certainties, your back will love your new amp and it will not sound like your DB751.

[nonkel26]

Thanks for all your input. I think I'll keep the DB 751.

The GS 412 is not a problem because it has wheels and is easy to put in and out of the car. Weight is here no problem. The DB is in a sturdy 4 units wooden flightcase together with a wireless system and a racktuner. Maybe I should split it up to lower the weight...anyhow, I also think I will regret selling it.

[HazBeen]

3 hours ago, Muzz said:

There's basically two 'Generations' of Class D amps out there, a lot running the older power amp module (which, I believe the TH500 is one), which had its detractors, and was the origins of the whole 'heft' thing, but the newer generation module in the Magellan, Mesa 800, Darkglass, etc, is a different animal in terms of presence and 'heft'. Unfortunately, an awful lot of people's negative perceptions of Class D is based on their experience of the first generation amps...

That being said, I think the OP will struggle to replace a db751, which is at the end of the day a £2500 amp, with a £5-600 amp...if weight is the issue, I'd agree with the folk above who have suggested keeping the 42lb amp and changing the 98lb cab for something half the weight...and there's plenty of options for that...

True, new D Class heads are a big improvement over the previous generations.

BUT I was able to A/B/C a Mesa D800 (with the new D class power amp as we know), my Mesa Subway DI (which is the same preamp as the D800) into a 1000w GSS Sumo and the same pre feeding the Mosfet Power Amp of my class AB Mesa.

At lower sound levels there was next to nothing between the D800/Subway+Sumo and the Subway+Mosfet. I actually had a slight preference for the D800, probably because there is an interaction (magic  ) going on between the Pre and Power sections of the head you do not have when using a seperate pre and power amp. 

But at higher levels neither the D800 nor the Subway/Sumo was as thick as the Mosfet. The difference was noticeably smaller then with generation 1 D class heads but it is still there. For me, my ears etc. (well and also my drummer's ears).

[bassmayhem]

Well, if you can cope with a class D amp that weighs 5 kg/11 lbs, then try the Vanderkley Spartan. I use mine for everything...

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, nonkel26 said:

Thanks for all your input. I think I'll keep the DB 751.

The GS 412 is not a problem because it has wheels and is easy to put in and out of the car. Weight is here no problem. The DB is in a sturdy 4 units wooden flightcase together with a wireless system and a racktuner. Maybe I should split it up to lower the weight...anyhow, I also think I will regret selling it.

In terms of having an amp that gives you a great sound and one that you already really like and has a reputation as being one of the best available today, that has got to be the right decision.

From the perspective of someone who would have been very tempted to buy your DB 751 if it came up for sale, that's definitely disappointing  

Edited July 16, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, HazBeen said:

True, new D Class heads are a big improvement over the previous generations.

BUT I was able to A/B/C a Mesa D800 (with the new D class power amp as we know), my Mesa Subway DI (which is the same preamp as the D800) into a 1000w GSS Sumo and the same pre feeding the Mosfet Power Amp of my class AB Mesa.

At lower sound levels there was next to nothing between the D800/Subway+Sumo and the Subway+Mosfet. I actually had a slight preference for the D800, probably because there is an interaction (magic  ) going on between the Pre and Power sections of the head you do not have when using a seperate pre and power amp. 

But at higher levels neither the D800 nor the Subway/Sumo was as thick as the Mosfet. The difference was noticeably smaller then with generation 1 D class heads but it is still there. For me, my ears etc. (well and also my drummer's ears).

I have to agree with you that the Mesa MOSFET amps are great and certainly my M6 has a 'sparkle' that neither my DG M900 nor MB LM3 heads can quite match. 

However are you sure that this is down to the power amp and not the (in the case of the M6 Carbine) valve pre-amp?

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Al Krow

[Muzz]

1 hour ago, HazBeen said:

True, new D Class heads are a big improvement over the previous generations.

BUT I was able to A/B/C a Mesa D800 (with the new D class power amp as we know), my Mesa Subway DI (which is the same preamp as the D800) into a 1000w GSS Sumo and the same pre feeding the Mosfet Power Amp of my class AB Mesa.

At lower sound levels there was next to nothing between the D800/Subway+Sumo and the Subway+Mosfet. I actually had a slight preference for the D800, probably because there is an interaction (magic  ) going on between the Pre and Power sections of the head you do not have when using a seperate pre and power amp. 

But at higher levels neither the D800 nor the Subway/Sumo was as thick as the Mosfet. The difference was noticeably smaller then with generation 1 D class heads but it is still there. For me, my ears etc. (well and also my drummer's ears).

All subjective and completely valid, but in this case, I'd take the OP's original db751 over any of those options, given that the two options you found more pleasing are pretty much as big/heavy as the db751...it's all a compromise, in the end. And, I have to say, in at least 75% of the gigs I play, a completely academic exercise...but then that's the wacky world of gigging all over 😕😀

[ebenezer]

the db 751 is the best amp i have played through, not a bad sound in there!!.......i am going to hang fire on an amp replacement as i think there

is some way to go on R&D, in particular the power section although, things are better than the early class D amps

[Beedster]

3 hours ago, nonkel26 said:

Thanks for all your input. I think I'll keep the DB 751.

Wise. Amp gets too heavy? Get a gym membership or a roadie. There's a reason why nearly all the classic amps are heavy. I curse the weight of my SVT every time I have to lift it, but that's all forgotten when I plug in, and even my lightweight heads are still pretty big and heavy (e.g., Mesa Venture)   

[HazBeen]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I have to agree with you that the Mesa MOSFET amps are great and certainly my M6 has a 'sparkle' that neither my DG M900 nor MB LM3 heads can quite match. 

However are you sure that this is down to the power amp and not the (in the case of the M6 Carbine) valve pre-amp?

 

I bypassed the BB pre (which has 4 tubes in the pre), subsituting the BB750 pre with the Subway DI/Pre which is the same pre in the D800. So same pre, 3 different Power Amps in the comparison.

Edited July 16, 2018 by HazBeen