In Ears - What happens if...........

[la bam]

With so many players now going to in ears, i was just wondering a few things.......

1) If all members apart from drums are on in ears - what happens if yours go down and break mid gig? From what i can work out you wouldnt be able to hear yourself, OR anyone else (as theyd be on in ears too).

2) How do you go about changing your mix mid gig should it need it? (ie certain songs were guitar levels suddenly jump or fall). Using backline i can walk closer or farther away from what i need(or dont need) to hear - how would you do that on in ears?

Just curious to how it all works?.

[EBS_freak]

1) If you are wireless, have a wired backup. Have a spare pair of IEMs (with ZS10s costing less than 40 quid, everybody should have a spare pair.) - You are right, if you have no backline, the only thing you'll be able to play against, is whatever bleed you are hearing from front of house. In short, it's only like you amp going down... however, by going the inears route, it's a lot easier to carry around a spare rig.

2) Depends on your mixer. Most digital mixers have remote control via apps available on your phone/tablet. They show a virtual set of faders... mix the instrument/mic levels to your hearts content.

Theres a really useful thread in the Accessories section of the forum. If the answer is not in there, it doesn't exist.

[Tech21NYC]

With our band we bring our own digital mixer and a splitter. Keys, vocal mics, guitars, bass & drums are all patched into the splitter and our monitors are controlled by the QSC app via iPhones or iPads. Two of us use wedges and everyone else in on in-ears. Our mix is independent from FOH. 

I prefer a wedge to in-ears. I would also be very hesitant to be in a situation where someone else is controlling my mix if I'm on in-ears. Personal monitors can easily damage your hearing and inexpensive ones most certainly will. It's interesting to note that except for the drums the two instruments that are only direct tend to be the most inconsistent when it comes to stage volume. Also, if you are playing direct you are at the total mercy of whoever is mixing as the band will have very little sound coming off of the stage.

I think in-ears work better in concert/pro situations where the band is heard almost entirely through the PA. On a local level in a small pub. club etc it makes the sound techs job easier in certain respect while risking the musicians hearing and simultaneously neutering the sound of the band. A band in a small venue direct sounds like bad karaoke. IMHO. 

[Muzz]

I've run in-ears for a good while now, and EBS_freak is bob on: a wired backup pair is much cheaper than a backup anything else, rig-wise, and unless you're on a huuuge stage wayyyy behind the PA, if your in-ears go, you'll hear enough from the PA to finish the gig - it's a breakdown/emergency situation, after all). We all have an independent digital mixer feed for our in-ears, mine runs off my iPad, it's usually to hand. No-one else touches my in-ears mix.

We use drum triggers and no backline for pub gigs upwards, it sounds good.

[EBS_freak]

54 minutes ago, Tech21NYC said:

With our band we bring our own digital mixer and a splitter. Keys, vocal mics, guitars, bass & drums are all patched into the splitter and our monitors are controlled by the QSC app via iPhones or iPads. Two of us use wedges and everyone else in on in-ears. Our mix is independent from FOH. 

I prefer a wedge to in-ears. I would also be very hesitant to be in a situation where someone else is controlling my mix if I'm on in-ears. Personal monitors can easily damage your hearing and inexpensive ones most certainly will. It's interesting to note that except for the drums the two instruments that are only direct tend to be the most inconsistent when it comes to stage volume. Also, if you are playing direct you are at the total mercy of whoever is mixing as the band will have very little sound coming off of the stage.

I think in-ears work better in concert/pro situations where the band is heard almost entirely through the PA. On a local level in a small pub. club etc it makes the sound techs job easier in certain respect while risking the musicians hearing and simultaneously neutering the sound of the band. A band in a small venue direct sounds like bad karaoke. IMHO. 

Im surprised that any FOH guy will be happy with you having your own access to mixes on your monitor wedges. IEM mixes can be altered without impacting FOH. The fact that monitors are not within FOH control and not be able to be notched or controlled in volume to prevent feedback, well, lets just say it surprises me anybody would let you do that.

I would also disagree with the statement about concert/pro situations. If your band members take responsibility for their IEM mix and the sound on stage is reduced significantly as a result, front of house becomes a doddle.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

43 minutes ago, Muzz said:

I've run in-ears for a good while now, and EBS_freak is bob on: a wired backup pair is much cheaper than a backup anything else, rig-wise, and unless you're on a huuuge stage wayyyy behind the PA, if your in-ears go, you'll hear enough from the PA to finish the gig - it's a breakdown/emergency situation, after all). We all have an independent digital mixer feed for our in-ears, mine runs off my iPad, it's usually to hand. No-one else touches my in-ears mix.

We use drum triggers and no backline for pub gigs upwards, it sounds good.

Triggers and no backline will sound significantly better in pubs. Less bleed into mics, better control of the volume... and if the modellers/preamps are good, with no discernable loss of tone (in fact, your tone may improve because the guitarists won't have to drive amps hard to get "their tone"). You'll have a more consistent sound across different venues also!

[jrixn1]

56 minutes ago, Muzz said:

 if your in-ears go, you'll hear enough from the PA to finish the gig - it's a breakdown/emergency situation, after all).

This happened to me once, and can confirm it's not ideal but yes I managed to finish the gig!

[Bridgehouse]

In ears are just a much smaller way of killing rock and roll...

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Bridgehouse said:

In ears are just a much smaller way of killing rock and roll...

Yup.

[Tech21NYC]

16 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Im surprised that any FOH guy will be happy with you having your own access to mixes on your monitor wedges. IEM mixes can be altered without impacting FOH. The fact that monitors are not within FOH control and not be able to be notched or controlled in volume to prevent feedback, well, lets just say it surprises me anybody would let you do that.

I would also disagree with the statement about concert/pro situations. If your band members take responsibility for their IEM mix and the sound on stage is reduced significantly as a result, front of house becomes a doddle.

For one thing we aren't kids. We've all been playing for years. Secondly, in many situations "we" pay the sound company so they are working for us. In other situations it's part of our contract what the stage plot is. Every now and then like a couple of weeks ago we played at the new Hard Rock Casino in Atlantic City and it wasn't easy for them to do so we just had the two wedges controlled my FOH and the other guys still ran their own in-ear mixes. It works easiest if the monitors are newer and self powered.

The only time there has ever been an issue is when the wi-fi went out and for some reason my wedge started to feedback. I had to turn off the wedge until we could get the monitor control back. 

Maybe it's different in your part of the world but I've played really low volume gigs with live drums, bass amp and guitar amps in NYC with no issues. A lot of sound techs complain the musicians are too loud but I've been to enough venues to know that usually the entire system is too loud and many sound techs here run kick and bass heavy mixes. 

Live sound is supposed to be a collaborative effort not a dictatorial one. As a lead guitarist that also sings lead I'm pretty conscious of stage dynamics. If our sound tech tells me I'm too loud I turn down. I also use an attenuator and have plexi shield for situations where we are too close to the audience. 

 

 

[EBS_freak]

You know what, I'm not even going there.

[Muzz]

One very good step we took was to have an ambient mic (we've only got one at the moment, we could add another, but we're a three piece and we play some small stages) to give the in-ear mix a little 'air' - it takes away the clinicality of the experience. Plus you can hear each other to talk during soundcheck without popping one of your in-ears out... 😀

And yeah, with a Helix and a good guitarist with an ears for sounds, the guitar sounds terrific. I use a Zoom B3, which is good enough for me. The drummer's the biggest tech-head in the band, his little kit sounds huuuuge when he wants it to...

Ultimately, it all means more control. We've invested time into getting the band to sound good across the large range of songs and genres we play using the modellers and the PA, and we have a set of saved scenes we can work from, depending on the room dynamics. We're so much more consistent than turning up and the three of us having a best guess at EQ independently, and then having to work from there to a band sound. As I mentioned, we play across too many genres for that to work properly in the limited time we usually get for setup and soundcheck, so modellers, DI and in-ears have been a massive plus.

And my tinnitus thanks me every gig...