Split signal recording

[mik900]

I've  had good success recording bass tracks using Cubase, and my Ampeg svt4 pro. I Mic up cab and take a di out the amp.(I've 2 ins into soundcard)  I want to add my distortion pedal to the di signal.  Do I just take the di out the amp into the pedal and from there into desk? Thanks in advance.

[Sibob]

No, because a pedal is not Mic level, its instrument level. Typically you would go bass into distortion pedal, into your amp, into DI, although that is obviously not a split signal like your recording set-up.
You could split the signal on your pedalboard (ie use an effects loop pedal that allows you to blend your clean signal with your effected signal), although it's probably just easier to buy a distortion pedal with a good mix/blend control, same difference.

Si

Edited July 30, 2018 by Sibob

[mik900]

Thanks Si. Could I go out of amp di into pedal then into di box before desk or pc?

[jposega]

3 hours ago, mik900 said:

Thanks Si. Could I go out of amp di into pedal then into di box before desk or pc?

No, he just explained that the DI is mic level. Your pedal likely won't react well to a mic level input. It likely just will not sound good. 

Personally, I don't see the benefit of mic'ing up any speaker cabinet in a room that isn't well treated, so I do DI-only recording. To get a pair of signals, clean and effected, I use a stereo DI box. Signal goes: bass > DI input 1 > DI output 1 > USB interface input 1: DI through 1 > pedals > DI input 2 > DI output 2 > USB interface input 2. This way I get the clean signal right from the bass on one channel, then the second channel captures my pedalboard sound.

[mik900]

Cheers

[Sibob]

On 27/07/2018 at 15:00, mik900 said:

Cheers

Essentially, at the level I am guessing you're at (which of course may be inaccurate, apologies if so), I would suggest just purchasing a distortion pedal with a blend control as I mentioned before. That way you get clean signal and distorted signal without having to worry about a difficult setup live.
Again, check out COG Effects and Darkglass, but there are LOADS out there with blend controls.

Si

[cheddatom]

I don't know if this is helpful but for a lot of my recent work I've been double tracking - taking one pass at the song with my clean sound, then another with my dirty sound. It takes a bit of concentration to play it tight enough but it's a much fatter sound than just blending clean and dirty from the same take. 

[Dad3353]

+1 ^^. I will often take many passes, and even combine bits of each, depending on how the blend fits what I want to hear. That's one of the big advantages of solo recording at home: no 'live' constraints, and one can take the time needed to get the result.

[roman_sub]

You could also try splitting the signal into clean and dirty digitally - there are plenty of good plugins that can simulate the distortion pedal. Common practice is to keep the pure low end from the cleaner DI, and grab the mid-range grind from the 'distorted / amp channel'.

If you want add an analog drive pedal but also record clean sound, you'd need to put a DI as the first thing the bass plugs into - then record that DI, and then mic up the amp.  The amp signal will be some milliseconds later than the clean DI, so will want to check phase alignment between the two. Check if it sounds much better with phase polarity button in / out as a start, and if you really want to get deep into it, you can play with time-alignment of the waveforms in the DAW.... alas, I digress.

Personally I wouldn't double track bass as was suggested above - in 99% cases, bass would be panned straight down the middle, so overlaying multiple performances would likely give a less tight sound as result of timing/performance differences (however slight).

[Sibob]

46 minutes ago, roman_sub said:

Personally I wouldn't double track bass as was suggested above - in 99% cases, bass would be panned straight down the middle, so overlaying multiple performances would likely give a less tight sound as result of timing/performance differences (however slight).

I think most bass gets double-tracked, not often to layer it (although that certainly happens), but more often to simply give the producer/mix engineer options. You're not necessarily going to know what you need from the bass until everything else is in place, and so if I have the ability to quickly and easy double track (Mic/DI, clean/distorted etc), I will. I'd rather subtract at a later date, than spend time editing/processing something to make it fit because that's all I have.

Si

[roman_sub]

6 hours ago, Sibob said:

I think most bass gets double-tracked, not often to layer it (although that certainly happens), but more often to simply give the producer/mix engineer options. You're not necessarily going to know what you need from the bass until everything else is in place, and so if I have the ability to quickly and easy double track (Mic/DI, clean/distorted etc), I will. I'd rather subtract at a later date, than spend time editing/processing something to make it fit because that's all I have.

Si

I wonder if we're talking at cross-purposes.

Double-tracking of performances is a good idea as you can select best performance for each section, try a few different licks, etc.   This also gives an insurance option, eg if one take is suddenly affected by noise or dodgy cable. You'd select a single take per section, most of the time, though - unless you really want a less defined mono / some sort of stereo-panned bass sound...

Recording multiple sources, during the same performance (DI + amp etc) is also a great idea as it gives options for the mix; many rock bass tones are a combination of several sources.

What I meant is that doing several passes using two different sounds e.g. combining take 1 of clean bass with take 2 of distorted bass over the same section of music, may not be as good as capturing both clean and distorted at the same time.  Most of the time, the timing / string attack discrepancy in performances would be an unwanted artefact.

That's not to say that some songs don't have a fretless P via DI in verse, whereas chorus is a picked Jazz through an amp... or even blend of the two.  Just trying to be realistic here...

Edited July 31, 2018 by roman_sub

[cheddatom]

Well I've been getting great results doubling, tripling, even quadrupling my bass takes. I guess it depends on what sounds you're going for but this is pretty tight metal with a doomy slant and it works very well