Best computer for audio recording/production

[Leonard Smalls]

Looks like my laptop may have bitten the dust - after 5 years it appears to be unbootable due to knacked motherboard or processor.

So what do y'all recommend as a replacement? Might be tempted by desktop as I haven't used it live for 3 years and seems unlikely I'll do any more in the foreseeable.

I'm running Ableton Live 9, currently with only a Scarlett 2i2 as usb input but might be tempted to up that, possibly with firewire unless usb 3.0 is enough, and with plenty of vsts.

I rarely go any more than 16 tracks, but want minimum latency.

And I don't want to spend any money at all if poss, so Apple is probably out.

But we're probably talking i7 at least 6 core, at least 16Gb RAM, preferably with some SSD capacity for fast boot - that was the spec of my laptop which worked well until it didn't any more.

 

[Akio Dāku]

My advice build your own desktop, it's the cheapest and best way. I use these for everything;

https://www.scan.co.uk

https://www.overclockers.co.uk

Also what's up with your laptop exactly? Because I'd bet if you pull it to bits, clean it out and put some fresh thermal paste on the CPU/heatsync it'll probably breath fresh life into it.

[Sibob]

FireWire is dead and USB 3.0 is unnecessary. Here’s an article to explain the USB thing: https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/208095469-USB-2-0-vs-USB-3-0

Go USB 2.0 or Thunderbolt if the motherboard you eventually buy has a compatible Thunderbolt PCIE card available for it (or included even).

Si

Edited July 29, 2018 by Sibob

[Leonard Smalls]

14 hours ago, Akio Dāku said:

Also what's up with your laptop exactly?

It won't boot...

Just power light and occasionally blinking hard disc light.

It was taking ages to boot - this eventually became an hour so I thought about recovery options, did a chkdsk c:/r/x which showed no problems, did startup recovery, no probs, then thought about re-installing windows so got recovery to try starting from usb then it wouldn't boot at all.

So I reseated the RAM, tried start up from either RAM, re-set the cmos battery and checked for power at motherboard - all fine but still no boot, even using a 2nd screen to check it wasn't just the integrated screen. So I came to the conclusion it was either the on-board graphics, or basically the motherboard, or perhaps the processor.

Final option before binning is to speak to the makers - luckily I've rescued the HD contents.

[SH73]

I replaced my hard drive in my laptop with SSD and it fires up in seconds. Still my DAW often freezes whilst recirding etc.Unfortunately, both HDD and SSD have their pros and cons.I read that it's easier to recover data from HDD.

HDD is also cheaper £= capacity but SSD quicker.

I look forward to other BCs suggestions as I think I raised a similiar thread but never got a definitive answer which I will be highly unlikely to as most things are horses of courses.

I also run Ableton live 9 lite with Focusrite Scarlet but use the same laptop for other non music tasks.

As far as apple is concerned it's overpriced. You get more non apple for the same cash.

Edited July 29, 2018 by SH73
add on

[Leonard Smalls]

1 minute ago, SH73 said:

I replaced my hard drive in my laptop with SSD

I've got a PC with a 2x500Gb SSD RAID array and that boots in about 5 seconds - and it's got 32Gb of RAM with i7 8700 6 core processor!

Unfortunately I can't nick that for music as it's also running our shop's EPOS system as well as being our home PC!

With the possible new one I'd be tempted to go for about 500Gb SSD for boot and DAW duties, plus large 3Tb off board hard drive which currently has all my music library on it

[SH73]

15 hours ago, Akio Dāku said:

My advice build your own desktop, it's the cheapest and best way. I use these for everything;

https://www.scan.co.uk

https://www.overclockers.co.uk

Also what's up with your laptop exactly? Because I'd bet if you pull it to bits, clean it out and put some fresh thermal paste on the CPU/heatsync it'll probably breath fresh life into it.

I did enjoy the BC podcast. Perhaps you could expand in the next edition on suitable PC / laptops on music production and how to build a simple PC tower for dummies. I think it would benefit us BCs 😉

[SH73]

3 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I've got a PC with a 2x500Gb SSD RAID array and that boots in about 5 seconds - and it's got 32Gb of RAM with i7 8700 6 core processor!

Unfortunately I can't nick that for music as it's also running our shop's EPOS system as well as being our home PC!

With the possible new one I'd be tempted to go for about 500Gb SSD for boot and DAW duties, plus large 3Tb off board hard drive which currently has all my music library on it

I'm in no way a PC expert but sounds like a plan. I find my 250g ssd too low of a capacity as I share it with other stuff.

SSD seem to be cheaper than it was 2 years ago.

[Leonard Smalls]

I've actually got an old Apevia case with room for full size motherboard, 4 dvd drives and 3 SATA drives... I could then re-use the laptop 1Tb hybrid drive, plus the 500Gb Samsung that's already in the case, plus new 500Gb SSD, as well as the Asus 24/96 sound card. I'd only need 2 8Gb DDR4 RAM, as there's 2 in the laptop already, just need to buy Corsair Vengeance to match, plus maybe ditch the existing 450W power supply for something a bit bigger. There's already 2 case fans, so one more on the front plus the cpu cooler should do it.

I expect a build time of 20 minutes.

😁

[ambient]

A used MacBook?

[Akio Dāku]

3 hours ago, SH73 said:

I did enjoy the BC podcast. Perhaps you could expand in the next edition on suitable PC / laptops on music production and how to build a simple PC tower for dummies. I think it would benefit us BCs 😉

Great idea! 

44 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I've actually got an old Apevia case with room for full size motherboard, 4 dvd drives and 3 SATA drives... I could then re-use the laptop 1Tb hybrid drive, plus the 500Gb Samsung that's already in the case, plus new 500Gb SSD, as well as the Asus 24/96 sound card. I'd only need 2 8Gb DDR4 RAM, as there's 2 in the laptop already, just need to buy Corsair Vengeance to match, plus maybe ditch the existing 450W power supply for something a bit bigger. There's already 2 case fans, so one more on the front plus the cpu cooler should do it.

I expect a build time of 20 minutes.

😁

Problem solved! Just a random thought for your laptop though; there might be a chance you could get Linux to boot and re-image the firmware for your BIOS? That's the last thing I can think of. You should be able to get the BIOS image from your motherboard manufacturers website.

[Leonard Smalls]

19 minutes ago, ambient said:

A used MacBook?

A 2013 15" with an i7 processor and 16Gb RAM would cost about £850... That's a 5 year old laptop... I could get a brand new laptop with the same spec and a 3 year warranty for about £900!

Or I could buy an Asus z370 TUF motherboard with i7 7800X 6 core processor and 4GHz speed, plus Coolermaster Hypercool fan, 2x8Gb corsair RAM and a 500Gb Samsung SSD for £869 from Scan.

Then I'd just need 20 minutes to slot it into the case!

 

[Sibob]

11 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

A 2013 15" with an i7 processor and 16Gb RAM would cost about £850... That's a 5 year old laptop... I could get a brand new laptop with the same spec and a 3 year warranty for about £900!

Or I could buy an Asus z370 TUF motherboard with i7 7800X 6 core processor and 4GHz speed, plus Coolermaster Hypercool fan, 2x8Gb corsair RAM and a 500Gb Samsung SSD for £869 from Scan.

Then I'd just need 20 minutes to slot it into the case!

 

And I would still buy the Mac if music production was my primary goal

Si

[xgsjx]

I sold an 8 year old 24" iMac for £200 a couple of years ago to a chap on here.  Even by today's standards, it had a decent spec.  Try selling an 8 year old PC.

Macs have always seemed overpriced when next to a PC, but I've found them very reliable.  That's something I'm happy to pay extra money for.

[Leonard Smalls]

7 hours ago, Sibob said:

And I would still buy the Mac if music production was my primary goal

I've had  a look at 2nd hand machines...

I could get a refurished 2008 Mac Pro with 32Gb RAM and 3.33GHz 6 core processor for £495 with OS of anything up to El Crapitan - food for thought! Not being that familiar with Macs makes me lean toward PC more, but I used to use a MacPro back in the late 90s so it might come back. It is, however, 10 years old.

I've also looked at 2nd hand business machines - servers, Avid workstations and the like. I can get a 5 year old refurb HP Z640 with choice of Windows 7 or 10 and 48Gb (!) DDR3 RAM for the same, or an actual Dell Avid with 64Gb RAM and Xeon octacore processor for £695...

Problem with the internet is there's so many choices!

[WinterMute]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I've had  a look at 2nd hand machines...

I could get a refurished 2008 Mac Pro with 32Gb RAM and 3.33GHz 6 core processor for £495 with OS of anything up to El Crapitan - food for thought! Not being that familiar with Macs makes me lean toward PC more, but I used to use a MacPro back in the late 90s so it might come back. It is, however, 10 years old.

I've also looked at 2nd hand business machines - servers, Avid workstations and the like. I can get a 5 year old refurb HP Z640 with choice of Windows 7 or 10 and 48Gb (!) DDR3 RAM for the same, or an actual Dell Avid with 64Gb RAM and Xeon octacore processor for £695...

Problem with the internet is there's so many choices!

If you can afford it, a Mac Pro Cheesegrater is the way to go, I've been using Macs for music production for decades now, and they are intrinsically less hassle than PC's, but they do cost an arm and a leg.

My 2012 17" MBP died at the beginning of the year, needed a new motherboard, £500 thanks very much, so I bought a second had 6 core Mac Pro pedal bin with 64Gb or RAM and 2 TB of SSD, cost north of £2k but I'm not short of power or storage now, or at any point in the future I suspect...

[Sibob]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I've had  a look at 2nd hand machines...

I could get a refurished 2008 Mac Pro with 32Gb RAM and 3.33GHz 6 core processor for £495 with OS of anything up to El Crapitan - food for thought! Not being that familiar with Macs makes me lean toward PC more, but I used to use a MacPro back in the late 90s so it might come back. It is, however, 10 years old.

I've also looked at 2nd hand business machines - servers, Avid workstations and the like. I can get a 5 year old refurb HP Z640 with choice of Windows 7 or 10 and 48Gb (!) DDR3 RAM for the same, or an actual Dell Avid with 64Gb RAM and Xeon octacore processor for £695...

Problem with the internet is there's so many choices!

If I was going to buy a Mac, i’d want it to at least go to High Sierra, and preferably a couple of iterations past that. Just so I definitly got a good few years out of it. 

As much as people think they can just buy a machine and leave it standalone (no updates or internet), it doesn’t really work like that and you'll eventually be at the behest of a hardware or software update requiring a system overhaul. If you’re into music production (or visuals, graphics etc), this kind of obselence is a necessary evil and should be built into your 5year gear budgets .

That said, if you literally just want a system to have off the grid, to record a couple of tracks for demo'ing purposes, stick with a few plugins you won't update etc, then you can certainly get more years worth out of a system then if you want to keep up to date. Problem with these setups is that if a piece of hardware dies and turns out to be a bit of a financial write-off with regards to fixing, new hardware can then require a full system update.

Bit of a mine-field lol

Si

Edited July 30, 2018 by Sibob

[DBerriff]

I am happy with my iMac but that decision is driven by software. As you have been using Windows I would stay with it and look at the offerings from the likes of Inta Audio who have been building "Pro audio PCs" for some time now. Scan is another company with a fair amount of experience in this field.

Apart from one or two proprietary chips, Apple uses bought-in components so reliability should be similar, although worse in the case of the 21.5" iMac which does not seem to have been designed for intensive use (anecdotal evidence from a website developer). Effective cooling is important for long component life and a well-designed PC workstation should last for years.

[Leonard Smalls]

7 hours ago, Sibob said:

this kind of obselence

This is what I was worried about...

Knowing very little about recent macs not sure which OS to go for! The pro i was looking at had el crapi and couldn't go any later than that...

The HP z640 I was also looking at also had Xeon dual processors, 48Gb RAM but had the option of Windows 10 pro which means support but also a means of deferring updates until they (hopefully) work!

[Mcgiver69]

If you like Mac and don't have the money for a new or second hand one then another alternative lots of people are using is Hackintosh which is basically a PC with Mac OS installed in it. Lots of musicians are going for it and it works very well.

[WinterMute]

10 minutes ago, Mcgiver69 said:

If you like Mac and don't have the money for a new or second hand one then another alternative lots of people are using is Hackintosh which is basically a PC with Mac OS installed in it. Lots of musicians are going for it and it works very well.

Well, it works, but it still leaves you with issues to deal with... The ideal is that you spend minimum time administering your computer and maximum time making music, in my experience Windows PC's and Hackingtosh's require more admin than Macs, the relative cost notwithstanding.

Each to their own I guess, but I'd recommend a proper Mac unreservedly for music production.

[Dad3353]

Whilst it's true that my needs are rather more modest, and music is not the sole use I put my PC to, I don't really understand all this 'administering' stuff. I just use my PC (a lowly HP8200, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 12Gb, SSD boot drive, several Tb of USB drives plugged in...). Every few weeks or so, as I'm shutting down, I'll be asked to wait while the System updates, usually a few minutes. That's it. I do nothing else to it. I turn it on of a morning, do what I want to do, including composition, using Reaper. I'm typing this on the same machine; I have no issues, no viruses nor malware, I record my instruments (guitar, bass, keys, mics...) through my Tascam interface with no problems... While it's not the most powerful of processors (i5, 3Ghz or so...), it certainly isn't a sluggard, and copes with as many tracks and Vst's as I need to use, depending on the compo. No, really; no complaints here.
The UC cost around £200, refurbished, a few years ago now. Our Youngest has just bought a new i7 tower, fully 'speced', for just under 500€, delivered, which works fine, too.
Disclaimer: I spent the last couple of decades of my long career in electronics as Project Manager for several companies in France, specifying and setting up IT systems for their needs, including office and ERP software. I have some inklings of how to set up a System from a security point of view, and what traps and pitfalls to avoid. I may therefore be slightly more 'savvy' than some, but still, I wonder what this 'administration' involves that is so onerous and feared. Maybe I've just always been lucky..? 

[Skol303]

Long-time Mac user here, at home and at work.

We have a 10 year-old iMac at home that is running the latest Mac OS and still works flawlessly, albeit now painfully slow in comparison to a newer and faster Mac Mini. By comparison, we have a cupboard full of obsolete PCs in the office at work, all of which never came close to seeing their 10th birthday.

I'm not sure whether any of this aids the discussion... but in my own experience, Macs tend to be much more cost-effective than PCs over the long run.

[Mornats]

For what it's worth I had so much trouble with my old 2009 Macbook Pro being flaky running GarageBand that I swapped to a PC and Reaper with so fewer issues. I've got a 2011 MacBook Pro that overheats and blows its fans like a hoover all the time. 

[Leonard Smalls]

I've just sent mine off to the maker - thought it was probably worth £60 for them to take it to bits and test it. They said if it's the mother board that would be another £97...

Should find out in 7-10 days.