Jump to content
Why become a member? ×

Built-in DI vs External DI?


bassist_lewis

Recommended Posts

I had this conversation a few months back at an Edinburgh Bass hang. A friend (a member here) who plays big gigs in Europe was describing his preference for using an external DI box rather than the one built-in to the amp. Its not something I've ever thought about while playing to 100-200 people at wedding venues but I've seen guys like Tim Lefebvre using a Nobleamps DI live instead of the DI on the amp (as far as I can tell), and it made me wonder what other people's thoughts were. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Over many years of run around gigging, I’ve found a lot of engineers who don’t want to use the DI on amps - many reasons given, usually to do with level (too high/low) or noise.  

I now use two approaches, depending on gig and circumstances. First a passive DI run from the effects send of an amp ( no noise, transformer islolation and my preamp settings). Second I’ll use a Sansamp - recognised and respected, never had anyone object to it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve only ever had problems with a Sansamp twice in over 20 years - both times it was “digital switching” interference from lighting systems, the earth lift reduced it, but not enough.  Both times I put a passive DI after the Sansamp and problem gone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like all things there are good and not so good internal and external DI's. I generally insist on using the DI in my TC Rebel 450 and have had favourable comments on its quality with the added benefit that  when I mute to tune the FOH feed is muted as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As has been said before - that's just lazy sound men (or more kindly , sound men up against it with time / turnarounds etc) .

Never the same argument with a Guitarist ; and most Bassists look after their gear far better than Guitarists do - IMO . So why not the same logic with them .

9/10 , you're left with a lifeless plod noise

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Skybone said:

I remember having the same discussion with the house sound guys when they put a DI box in front of my bass.

The stock answer back then was "in case the amp blows".

It never did blow though.

 

to which I'd answer "what if your DI blows?"

I generally use mine, but if someone is precious about using theirs... I will. It's not like anyone can tell any difference in a live situation. 

In one band I use quite a bit of overdrive, in that case I use my OmniCabSim pedal's DI, no questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that everyone is coming at it from a very practical "in case something goes wrong" perspective. I can't say I've ever experienced an amp dying onstage and requiring a DI as back up. I have done a few gigs going straight into the desk and it would've been good in that situation to have something like a Tonehammer and a Basswitch. The friend mentioned in the OP prefers an external DI for sonic reasons, he says they just sound better than the built-in ones.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In defence of the sound engineer, turnarounds can be short, and they’d rather use a ‘known good’ DI source than have to start line-checking and fault finding. 

I like the DI on my SVP preamp though, as do most studios as it’s transformer balanced and sounds lovely 😊 

Edited by paul_5
Bloody autocorrect!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because saturation. You listen to a valve DI and a SS DI and whilst on face value, they may appear to do the right thing, as soon as you start adding saturation, thing sound louder and fuller. You are getting non audible distortion but this is what adds the warmth and the fatness that people are often craving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Jecklin

When I was gigging around London in the late 90's (originals rock etc) no engineer at any venue would ever entertain using the DI out from my head. 

No matter how much I pleaded, no matter how experienced the engineer, no matter how good the venue or how high we were on the billing. 

Always a passive DI before the amp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, paul_5 said:

In defence of the sound engineer, turnarounds can be short, and they’d rather use a ‘known good’ DI source than have to start line-checking and fault finding.

As an engineer - this....

16 hours ago, E sharp said:

Never the same argument with a Guitarist ; and most Bassists look after their gear far better than Guitarists do - IMO .

You clearly frequent more refined bassist circles than I come across.  For all the players with top end kit there are plenty of bassists with crappy kit.

17 hours ago, Skybone said:

I remember having the same discussion with the house sound guys when they put a DI box in front of my bass.

The stock answer back then was "in case the amp blows".

It never did blow though.

I've had a few bassists whose rigs have let them down mid-show.  In those cases, an external DI has saved the day.

My approach is always to ask the bassist what approach they prefer, and then go with that unless it causes problems in soundcheck.  For those that don't know/care, it's always an external DI, unless their head is one I'd know and trust, like a TC Electronic head....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use the DI on my Darkglass head if I'm unable to bring my REDDI - Otherwise it's the REDDI every time. Never had any soundman object to either of them. On the contrary, whenever I use the REDDI, I have soundmen taking pictures of my rig and asking me what unit is sending them such a lush bass tone 😁

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I carry a passive DI, and let the sound-person know that I have that, a head with a DI or am happy to use their preferred DI.
Some prefer to use their gear in which case I concede to their preferences (they know their system), some concede to what I want (usually the Orchid DI over the Markbass amp DI), either way, if everyone is happy, everyone has a better gig.

Si

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have probably done more gigs with a Behringer external passive DI on pre EQ setting than I have with the inbuilt Di on my head . My bass generally has an inbuilt EQ and I generally have some kind of light overdrive from a pedal, so a pre EQ DI never really a pre EQ DI.

If I have a choice I would prefer a mic on my cab and/or a DI from the head. I don't expect it and frankly I rarely even tell the sound engineer my preference, so if the sound engineer has the time or is willing go to that level of effort it is really appreciated. I usually just go with what the sound engineer prefers, even if the guidance is 'PA is crap for anything other than vocals, just be loud'. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

to which I'd answer "what if your DI blows?"

I generally use mine, but if someone is precious about using theirs... I will. It's not like anyone can tell any difference in a live situation. 

In one band I use quite a bit of overdrive, in that case I use my OmniCabSim pedal's DI, no questions.

I used to say that the power would probably blow before the amp, and if it did, the PA would be useless.

They still insisted on it though. Never had it with the guitar though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I generally use the DI on my Subway Pedal (rather good) and always have a Radial JDI with me as backup which has a Jenson transformer so most sound engineers are happy enough. Hardle ever use the onboard DI on my Mesa BB750, but to be fair it is very solid too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Because saturation. You listen to a valve DI and a SS DI and whilst on face value, they may appear to do the right thing, as soon as you start adding saturation, thing sound louder and fuller. You are getting non audible distortion but this is what adds the warmth and the fatness that people are often craving.

which is why I use a valve DI pedal!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interestingly nobody here has mentioned the idea of keeping your own sound?

For me the key thing is that if I’m using my own DI box I’ve got more control of my sound at all times. If I’m working abroad I often have no idea of what amp i’ll be given (sometimes great / sometimes awful) and what DI box might be provided. I’ve played what I consider to be good venues who have provided £10 DI boxes....! If the amp (and or DI) is absolutely shocking then at least I have the comfort of knowing that the sound going to the FOH is excellent because it’s from my own high quality DI box so I just have to suck up the onstage sound. 

Secondly with an external DI box you can send a signal to the FOH which is ‘full’ and then EQ the onstage amp as required - in some venues this is really useful without changing the FOH sound. Yes you could argue this could be done with a pre-EQ switch but often for me who knows what the quality of the in-amp DI is. 

Thirdly - strikes me that most amps aren’t going to contain the highest quality DI anyway so spending money on a good quality DI seems to me a good investment long term.

Fourth - having my own DI allows me to record myself at home and make sense of exactly what signal I’m sending to the FOH in a live situation.

(Fifth - this is a niche point, but if you use an external DI you can then use the amp DI pre-eq to record the bass live as well - often do this to check my sound and it’s a useful thing!).

If you always use the same amp and you like the DI then great. I don’t so prefer to keep my sound in my DI rather than in an amp. 

**I’m just sitting on the train home after a tour of Germany, DI in hand luggage. Different amps (see pics) every night of last week but same sound with my DI. Works great for me**

 

 

 

4A5D322E-E2EA-4488-BF11-2B7C1C1250C2.jpeg

6B7E6DBE-81B8-4A32-9324-4C4F63CDF64D.jpeg

D2DDFDBE-F6FC-4472-8302-8FE962D1724B.jpeg

 

Edited by dodge_bass
Typos !
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...