Cover versions of songs with discomforting lyrics

[skankdelvar]

A cursory examination of the lyrics and of such background as is available indicates that the song Oliver's Army is a meditation upon the enlistment of young, unemployed men into the British Army. The 'Only takes one itchy trigger, one more widow, one less white n*****' line refers to such collateral damage as was sustained by Irish Catholics during the Troubles. The title plays upon the dark reputation of Oliver Cromwell and his frankly savage acts against the Irish people during his conquest of Ireland.

The song was - apparently - written upon Mr Costello's return from a trip in 1978 to NI when it became apparent to him that the British soldiers serving in Ulster were both very young and from a background of poverty. It works on a lot of levels.

Edited August 11, 2018 by skankdelvar

[geoham]

On 03/08/2018 at 13:58, stingrayPete1977 said:

Our lady singer vetoed 'brown sugar', we decided that there are enough songs to cover without forcing any band member to play anything they don't want to. 

Same here! She was up for until she actually read the lyrics.

[geoham]

My view - context is everything. For example, Pink Floyd’s ‘In the Flesh’ has some pretty offensive lines - which I’m pretty certain would have be as offensive in the late 70’s as they are now. However, if you understand the song and it’s album, you surely wouldn’t take offence? A bit like Oliver’s Army as discussed earlier.

 

[SpondonBassed]

Does anyone do Roy Chubby Brown's I'm a Merchant Banker?

[Jack]

On 10/08/2018 at 14:37, skankdelvar said:

Funnily enough, my Mum is 92. All my life (and before she went crazy a few years ago) she would refer to a particular colour as 'n***** brown'. I really don't think she could see any connection at all between the word and people in the real world. She certainly exhibited no racist characteristics, preached a sort of 'do as you would be done by' philosophy and thought 'that Enoch Powell' was an awful man.

So - as a youth in the early 70's - the word had no resonance for me because in our house the word was never used in any context other than as descriptor for sundry items of clothing e.g. "Wear your n***** brown woolly hat, it's cold out".

I was consequently astonished when I first heard the word applied to another person. Even then in my ignorant innocence I thought, well, I suppose it's a corruption of a foreign (Spanish / Portuguese?) word for black, what's the problem? Sometimes one doesn't see what is going on around oneself 

I keep tropical fish, in the hobby most species are known by a common name but many are only really known by their latin name. Barbus Nigrofasciatus has adopted the new common name of 'Black Ruby Fish' as 'Nigger Barb' started to fall out of favour. I even have a proper text book that lists the old common name, it seems odd to me that it used to be a word with insulting characteristics, before it was specifically an insult.

 

I'm a youth worker and adult teacher. A big part of my work is politics and citizenship, thanks for the material in this thread!

[skankdelvar]

9 hours ago, Jack said:

I keep tropical fish, in the hobby most species are known by a common name but many are only really known by their latin name. Barbus Nigrofasciatus has adopted the new common name of 'Black Ruby Fish' as 'Nigger Barb' started to fall out of favour. I even have a proper text book that lists the old common name, it seems odd to me that it used to be a word with insulting characteristics, before it was specifically an insult.

 

I'm a youth worker and adult teacher. A big part of my work is politics and citizenship, thanks for the material in this thread!

The odd thing to me is that the black ruby fish was / is named Barbus Nigrofasciatus rather than Nigerfaciatus.

Though I am no etymologist I understand that the N-word is a corruption of the word negro which is Spanish for black and itself derives from the Latin word niger (also meaning 'black'). Opinion appears to be divided as to the etymology of niger before its appearance in Latin. 

Familiar modern descendants of niger include nero (Italian) and noir (French). By contrast the English word for black derives from the proto-German blakaz (burnt) which may descend in turn from the Indo-European bhleg. Funnily enough the defunct Old English word blac meant 'light or pale coloured' and derives from an alternative reading of 'burnt', referring not to the blackened quality of the burnt item but to the flames or light generated by the burning process. The Old and Middle English word for black was swart as in the English word swarthy and the very familiar German word schwartz.

It is not just obsessive pedantry that leads me off on these ramblings. I believe that a wider understanding of words helps to understand and to de-fang troublesome examples such as the N-word. In the broadest historical context the root of the word has no inherent meaning beyond its function as an adjective; the issues we must prioritise are the hateful beliefs which have accreted around the word and the actions which spring from those beliefs. The fact that an adjective became a noun is significant but not critical, and agonising about Elvis Costello is of secondary importance 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by skankdelvar
edit for spellynge

[Freddy Le Cragg]

Try playing When The Huntsman Comes A Marching by Chris T T in front of a field full of young farmers and pro-hunting Countryside Alliance members.... that went well.

[mikel]

On 11/08/2018 at 22:33, skankdelvar said:

A cursory examination of the lyrics and of such background as is available indicates that the song Oliver's Army is a meditation upon the enlistment of young, unemployed men into the British Army. The 'Only takes one itchy trigger, one more widow, one less white n*****' line refers to such collateral damage as was sustained by Irish Catholics during the Troubles. The title plays upon the dark reputation of Oliver Cromwell and his frankly savage acts against the Irish people during his conquest of Ireland.

The song was - apparently - written upon Mr Costello's return from a trip in 1978 to NI when it became apparent to him that the British soldiers serving in Ulster were both very young and from a background of poverty. It works on a lot of levels.

It was about violence and war in general. The Oliver in question was also a reference to the Oliver who was in charge of "Reserve Occupations" during 2nd WW. He decided who would not have to fight due to their occupation. Hence "Get yourself an occupation. The use of the N word is important to the song, it flags up the fact that lots of people and nationals are treated like scum by other administrations. Its a vocal slap in the face and a wake up call.

[SpondonBassed]

On 11/08/2018 at 22:33, skankdelvar said:

The title plays upon the dark reputation of Oliver Cromwell and his frankly savage acts against the Irish people during his conquest of Ireland.

It does.  At least it did with me.

I was living in Ireland and attending secondary school at the time the song was released.  I could never successfully associate the name of Oliver Cromwell with any of the other lyrics however.  Being a shallow teenager, I wasn't inclined to chase down the background to ANY lyric as long as it went with a beat.

There weren't any other Olivers mentioned in history lessons though and as you might imagine Cromwell would've overshadowed them in the teaching of history at Irish National Schools anyway.  I switched off of history altogether during secondary because of my mixed heritage and an inability to see what was taught in England and Ireland as being two sides to the same coin.

It's still a great song.  If I had to perform it, I am not sure how I'd treat it though.

 

1 hour ago, mikel said:

The Oliver in question was also a reference to the Oliver who was in charge of "Reserve Occupations" during 2nd WW.

This seems like a plausible explanation for the title to Oliver's Army.

Can you provide some background to your statement please?  I ask because I understood that the minister for labour from 1940 to '45 was Ernest Bevin.  The only Oliver I found on a brief search of war ministers for the period was Oliver Lyttelton who was in office for the first year of the war as President of the Board of Trade.  I found no mention of who was in charge of reserve occupations or who was in charge of same.

I am curious as my father was in a reserved occupation (Land Army).  This has nothing to do with the topic at hand however so PM me if you like.

[skankdelvar]

The great thing about Oliver's Army is that it's a lyrically powerful song that works on a number of levels. It queries the validity of the British Army's presence in NI while sympathising (to an extent) with the predicament of young unemployed men thrust into urban warfare. The song also satirises certain hard right positions and references global trouble spots of the period.

Costello uses multiple voices  (i) The unemployed man who would rather be anywhere else (ii) the recruiter dangling the offer of travel (iii) the right wing bar stool preacher and his predictable complaints. [Edit for] Or maybe the right-wing views belong to the unemployed man. Who can say?

It would be interesting to hear the lyrics delivered as a poem without the peppy music and the Abba-esque piano. And, yes, it's an anti-war song but it's message is carefully ambiguous about issues of responsibility and a lot of other things besides.

 

Don't start me talking
I could talk all night
My mind goes sleepwalking
While I'm putting the world to rights (Suggestion that the character's opinions are uninformed by any real thought)
Called careers information (Refs Army Careers Information Service)
Have you got yourself an occupation? (Double meaning - a job / a military occupation as perceived by Catholics in NI)

Oliver's army is here to stay
Oliver's army are on their way
And I would rather be anywhere else
But here today

There was a checkpoint Charlie
He didn't crack a smile
But it's no laughing party
When you've been on the murder mile
Only takes one itchy trigger
One more widow, one less white n****r (Verse suggests that PTSD leads to unregulated and illegal acts of aggression? Pejorative ref to Catholics, maybe refs Bloody Sunday?).

Oliver's army is here to stay
Oliver's army are on their way
And I would rather be anywhere else
But here today

Hong Kong is up for grabs (Refs decline British Empire, perennial right wing complaint)
London is full of Arabs (Arab potentates were buying up swathes of London during the 60's-70s; much bemoaned by certain sections of the population)
We could be in Palestine
Overrun by a Chinese line
With the boys from the Mersey and the Thames and the Tyne (Areas of high unemployment at time song was written).

But there's no danger
It's a professional career (refs Army recruitment slogan at time: 'Join The Professionals')
Though it could be arranged
With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear (Deliberate anachronism: maybe refs perennial right wing view that Britain needs a 'new Churchill')

If you're out of luck or out of work (Further reference to unemployment).
We could send you to Johannesburg (Apartheid state at time: rumours prevailed that British were secretly offering military support to white SA government)

Edited August 14, 2018 by skankdelvar

[seashell]

You know what, I really miss lojo in threads like this. He would definitely have had something interesting and thought provoking to contribute. Sadly missed 😞