Cover versions of songs with discomforting lyrics

[Muzz]

The closest we get to this is when/if we play Killing In The Name, the singist will introduce it with "It's a bit sweary, this one...brace yourselves..."

[steantval]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

Would you actually use the "n" word in a performance?

 

An artist doing original works may well want to ignite debate, or make a point. But a pub covers band? They've just picked the song because they like it. They are not invested in the subject. It doesn't mean as much as to the original writers - and the cover performer cannot truly know what the original intent was.

 

I can't think of much more stupid (within music anyway) of the chance a white man might use the "n" word when covering a song in a pub. Might get a kicking, might even get a conviction depending on what the rest of the lyric was.

Oliver’s Army springs to mind.

[Akio Dāku]

19 minutes ago, Stylon Pilson said:

What makes your freedom of speech more important than someone else's freedom to live free of oppression?

S.P.

27 minutes ago, Akio Dāku said:

Being offended by music/language is something you have to activatly engage in, it's not something that's imposed on you, it's a stance you choose to take, thus it's on the shoulders of the offended not the offenders. 

The free use of language doesn't oppress, controlled or compelled use of language oppresses. Please expand if I'm misunderstanding you. 

[Stylon Pilson]

6 minutes ago, Akio Dāku said:

The free use of language doesn't oppress

This is an opinion that is rarely held by anyone who is:

• black
• female
• gay
• disabled

Do you spot the pattern there?

S.P.

[NJE]

Worst lyric in a song that my band performs; “Well I'm the friendly stranger in the black sedan, Oh woncha hop inside my car, I got pictures, candy, I'm a lovable man” 

Im sure it wasn’t supposed to give the creepy vibe it does now, but in modern day context it does sound a bit wrong. 😬

[ambient]

28 minutes ago, Akio Dāku said:

The free use of language doesn't oppress, controlled or compelled use of language oppresses. Please expand if I'm misunderstanding you. 

I don’t see anything oppressive in using language that doesn’t offend. Quite the contrary, words like n***** or faggot have been and continue to be used to offend, belittle, oppress and insult.

It annoys me when people bring up the freedom of speech thing or decry political correctness, it’s down to having respect for people. The language of respect; which I prefer to the term politically correct, the latter implies that we're choosing terms merely to be politic in order to placate certain interest groups rather than from any interest in actually ridding our language of terminology that reflects bias and prejudice, and choosing language that reflects a certain level of respect for everyone.

Like I said earlier, I would always opt to change the words.

Edited August 3, 2018 by ambient

[6feet7]

I used to be in an originals band, and the '*unt' word was on one of the songs on the album. Even our band leader/singer, who had written the song and recorded it with pro musicians, would change the word to runt (I know, not much better but.....) when we played it live. 

[fretmeister]

If, as a white man, you want the freedom of speech to say the "n" word then you are going to have to deal with your audience having the freedom to call you a racist.

 

Don't worry though - you can just decide to not take offence to that.

And the venue manager will have the freedom to not book you too, because he doesn't want his establishment trashed.

 

If you can't tell the difference between a black artist using a reclaimed word on a CD and a covers band of no importance using it then I despair.

[Muzz]

Anyone who's getting excited about the n-bomb in Oliver's Army is taking offence completely out of context in an anti-war, anti-racist song.

[BrunoBass]

3 hours ago, Roger2611 said:

We used to do American Idiot in the covers band, we settled on looking around the venue, if there were kids present we would all go "Beep" in place of the offending words, no kids present we left the swear words in, it got quite funny as there were a few people who had come to see us at festivals that used to still scream "Beep" even when we played in a pub!

We play ‘American Idiot’ and like you if it’s an all ages festival crowd we replace ‘fcuk’ with something else but for a pub crowd it stays, likewise with ‘Psycho’ by Muse which we sometimes play. 

To be honest we were more conscious of the word ‘faggot’ in the same song, which might be considered more offensive than a good old fashioned swear word. But owing to the satirical context it’s intended to occupy we leave it in. No one’s ever complained; if they did we’d probably reconsider.

[mikel]

3 hours ago, police squad said:

you scum bag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot

 

That little faggot with the ear ring and the make up

 

leave em be

In Mark's defense he was quoting a conversation overheard in a Redneck bar in the US. Guys were bad mouthing musicians on MTV. He was highlighting their ignorance. Context is all.

Edited August 3, 2018 by mikel
Additions.

[BrunoBass]

3 hours ago, scalpy said:

We were playing a fundraiser the other day with our acoustic trio at the local hospice. Halfway through our Ace of Spades I realised the lyric ‘That’s the way I like it baby, I don’t want to live forever’ was coming up, but the vocalist was committed and she belted it out anyway.

We skipped the next number, Locked Out of Heaven.

Years ago my old band were playing a gig when a bunch of people who’d been traveling round the pubs after a funeral walked in, one of their friends had died in a road accident. We had just started playing The Smiths ‘There is a Light That Never Goes Out’ complete with the line about being hit by a double decker bus when the singer cottoned on, luckily in time to change the words. Awkward.

 

[Akio Dāku]

2 hours ago, Stylon Pilson said:

This is an opinion that is rarely held by anyone who is:

• black
• female
• gay
• disabled

Do you spot the pattern there?

S.P.

That's very much strawmaning my stance but ok; how do you assert causation from this pattern you've uncovered? 

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

If, as a white man, you want the freedom of speech to say the "n" word then you are going to have to deal with your audience having the freedom to call you a racist.

 

Don't worry though - you can just decide to not take offence to that.

And the venue manager will have the freedom to not book you too, because he doesn't want his establishment trashed.

 

If you can't tell the difference between a black artist using a reclaimed word on a CD and a covers band of no importance using it then I despair.

That's what I'm saying, we need freedom of speech so we know who people really are, then we can make informed choices as to how we interact with them as individuals. 

Just so we're all clear, I'm defending what I see as a right and one of the most important mechanisms for the evolution of culture and society; the conceptualisation of freedom of speech as seen from what I guess you'd call a "classical libertarian",  I'm not advising we all get up on stage dropping N bombs. Personally I don't even like playing covers regardless of lyrical content, but I'd die to defend the right of anyone to verbally/artistically offend me. 

(Sorry if there's typos I'm on my phone and I've not got time to proof read)

[Mykesbass]

3 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

I suspect even the stoutest foe of Bowdlerisation might demur at chirpily singing the N-Word down the Frog and Spigot. Besides, where's the opportunity? Off the top of my head I can only think of one song that might be played by a pub covers band and which contains the offending term, this being Mr Elvis Costello's hit single 'Oliver's Army'. Difficult to pull off without the big piano sounds, though. 

I guess not many other bands do Bob Dylan's Hurricane - so many verses, so my old band just dropped that particular one!

[stingrayPete1977]

6 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Kirsty MacColl regretted using the word "faggot" in "Fairytale of New York" and even when performing it live in the same year it was released changed the word to "blaggard" 

She never got a chance to re-record it as we know.

She had 13 years in which to do it had she wanted. 

[Daz39]

3 hours ago, Akio Dāku said:

The free use of language doesn't oppress, controlled or compelled use of language oppresses. Please expand if I'm misunderstanding you. 

Total privilege right there. You are part of the problem.

[skankdelvar]

7 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

She had 13 years in which to do it had she wanted. 

As I understand it the words ar$e, junk and slut have also prompted nervous broadcasters to whip out the bleep button around Christmas time.

And just as well; these are words that could quite clearly bring society to its knees. So let's just substitute 'sit-upon', 'dangerous drugs' and 'a person exercising their right to (either sequentially or simultaneously) engage in coition with multiple partners.

It's for the best.

[taunton-hobbit]

9 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

Halfway through the second break I realised that my PA was belting out "Whoah Black Betty - Bam-a-Lam!".

 

People still dance to it, though.............

[skankdelvar]

27 minutes ago, taunton-hobbit said:

People still dance to it, though.............

Indeed they do. 

Interesting factoid: Despite being based on a traditional song (elements of which may date back to the 18th century) and pretty much knocked into shape by Leadbelly, the Ram Jam version is credited by at least one forum to no fewer than 16 individuals including Hamish Stuart and Steve Ferrone. Perhaps these are arrangement credits designed to share the plaudits. Or something.

Edited August 3, 2018 by skankdelvar

[arthurhenry]

7 hours ago, ambient said:

The composer might have written them because racism or sexism was fine at the time. There are words that are deemed to be offensive now simply because they are offensive, personally I couldn't care less that they were fine 30 or 40 years ago, it's now that we're living in. If I was playing in a covers band, then yes I would change the lyric.

Nothing is offensive. People can choose to be offended, or perhaps feel offended without giving it any thought, but nothing is inherently offensive, there is no such thing.

[Akio Dāku]

2 hours ago, Daz39 said:

Total privilege right there. You are part of the problem.

I'm open to that being the case if I've overlooked something but your going to have to clarify exactly what "problem" your accusing me of being part of. If you'd be willing to outline where anything I've said could be construed as oppressive I'd be really grateful, because  I'd like to be afforded the opportunity to address it.  

[ambient]

2 hours ago, arthurhenry said:

Nothing is offensive. People can choose to be offended, or perhaps feel offended without giving it any thought, but nothing is inherently offensive, there is no such thing.

I don’t agree that people choose to be offended. People do however choose to offend.

I can think of many words that are offensive in their use; it would depend of course on your gender, sexuality, race, religion or appearance whether or not you do find a particular word offensive. Of course if you’re a straight white male without any disability then you probably wouldn’t have encountered a problem.

[bazzbass]

quite the opposite, my 80s originals punk band is reforming and our old songs sound so TAME now hehe

 

but yeah, imagine releasing Maurice Chevalier's "Thank god for little girls" and all those Only Sixteen type songs, urrrgh

Edited August 4, 2018 by bazzbass

[arthurhenry]

9 hours ago, ambient said:

I don’t agree that people choose to be offended. People do however choose to offend.

I can think of many words that are offensive in their use; it would depend of course on your gender, sexuality, race, religion or appearance whether or not you do find a particular word offensive. Of course if you’re a straight white male without any disability then you probably wouldn’t have encountered a problem.

I understand your point, but maintain that nothing is inherently offensive. What if you "choose to offend" someone, but they're not offended? What would you say then? What if they're not offended by that? Nothing is inherently offensive. Of course we should all be nice to each other, that goes without saying.

[SpondonBassed]

17 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

If we are truthful,

That is, as they say, a big ask.