Finished Pics! Dreadnought acoustic (guitar) for me?

[Andyjr1515]

Binding acoustics is probably amongst my least favourite tasks of anything to do with building guitars and basses.  It's a lot of faff and my confidence of getting a fully successful outcome is slim.

Nevertheless, it has to be done - so to prepare the binding channel I used a chisel, a scraper and also made a mini sanding block:

 

Having double and triple checked the body itself for continuity, squareness and clear corners, it was ready to start to bend the binding over the bending iron.  Again, like the sides, I used the body mould to clamp the bindings in while they dried:

Then checked the fit again and set about gluing the first set.  This is where it has to be firm against the guitar top AND the sides.  And it has to be square.  And the dry binding is springy and quite stiff.  So, it requires at least two extra techniques to try to achieve that for the hour or so before the glue is set.  First, fibre-glass reinforced tape - pulling the binding into place pretty much as hard as you can.  Masking tape or similar would simply rip under the strain:

Then, after running round another couple of times pressing the binding very firmly to ensure full contact at the edge and the bottom of the binding, out come the bicycle inner tubes - and really it needs more than this...

...but the next door neighbour's kids might get suspicious if I steal any more wheels off their bikes...

[LukeFRC]

Could you not have used that template mouldthing you’ve got? Put it in there and the only gap between the body and the template would be the routing channel - or would that not put enough pressure on it? 

[Andyjr1515]

6 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Could you not have used that template mouldthing you’ve got? Put it in there and the only gap between the body and the template would be the routing channel - or would that not put enough pressure on it? 

No - the fit wouldn't be anywhere tight enough or accurate enough (certainly with any mould I made myself )

Edited August 30, 2018 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

Well - the results are largely OK for the top.  A couple of places where it is a little bit iffy - and I had to heat a couple of the areas with and iron and clamp them properly down to the sides, but this is the sort of look it gives:

 

The above looks OK but, I think binding of an acoustic sorts the men from the boys - and at the very best - I reckon I'm at the petulant adolescent stage, if that.  For me, it's too hit and miss.

But - curses to poor memory - fixing those couple of bits with the iron (which softened the PVA enough to be able to ease the miscreant binding into position and held until it glued - reminded me that a couple of years ago, I tried a completely different approach to binding - that worked! 

It was on this re-body of a Peavey EVH I did - where I wanted to put a similar type of binding on upside down to give me a feature line from the thin maple bar:

The challenge here was that ANY misalignment would have meant sanding down - and potentially losing - the feature line.  So I simply couldn't risk the 'strap it all up and hope for the best' approach.  And so I came up with the crazy notion "Why don't I do it like I do veneering - iron it on!

And that's what I tried - and it worked!!!  

And then I forgot all about doing that.

So for the back binding - today's little least favourite job - that's what I'm going to do.

 

If it works, I'll show you the shots of the technique (or just look up one of my veneering threads - it's exactly the same).  If it doesn't work, I'll quietly sweep the idea under the carpet and get the inner tubes out again 

[SpondonBassed]

39 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I reckon I'm at the petulant adolescent stage, if that.

I had you down as a coquettish debutant.  Close enough.

[Andyjr1515]

With a touch of Post Traumatic Binding Stress Disorder creeping in, I rock-hopped back to the neck and did a bit more on the heel.  Still more to do to get a more interesting visual effect and get it looking a little slimmer, but it's starting to get there.

I also remembered the final "once you've spent all that time joining the body parts and thicknessing them and fitting the braces and tap tuning the top and sorting the kerf strip and sorting the join shapes and cutting the soundhole and making the rosette and fitting it and the purfling around it and gluing the top on and fitting the back on and routing the binding slots and fitting the purfling and bending the binding and gluing it and stretching the fibreglass tape and next door neighbours kids bicycle tyres round then fixing the bits that didn't quite work and scraping the bits flush that did" - yes, after all THAT then..."You need to clamp the complete large dreadnought body somehow without crushing it and rout a large slot through the sides into the neck block with the hand router that you wreck most other things you use it on and which, if it is the slightest bit out alignment in any of the three planes, will render the guitar unfinishable." 

Hmmm...I think I might just go and have a gin instead.

[Jimothey]

13 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

With a touch of Post Traumatic Binding Stress Disorder creeping in, I rock-hopped back to the neck and did a bit more on the heel.  Still more to do to get a more interesting visual effect and get it looking a little slimmer, but it's starting to get there.

I also remembered the final "once you've spent all that time joining the body parts and thicknessing them and fitting the braces and tap tuning the top and sorting the kerf strip and sorting the join shapes and cutting the soundhole and making the rosette and fitting it and the purfling around it and gluing the top on and fitting the back on and routing the binding slots and fitting the purfling and bending the binding and gluing it and stretching the fibreglass tape and next door neighbours kids bicycle tyres round then fixing the bits that didn't quite work and scraping the bits flush that did" - yes, after all THAT then..."You need to clamp the complete large dreadnought body somehow without crushing it and rout a large slot through the sides into the neck block with the hand router that you wreck most other things you use it on and which, if it is the slightest bit out alignment in any of the three planes, will render the guitar unfinishable." 

Hmmm...I think I might just go and have a gin instead.

Your a braver man than me!! At the planning stage I would have decided to have a gin instead!! 😁 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Jimothey

[Andyjr1515]

1 minute ago, Jimothey said:

Your a braver man than me!! 😁 

Yes - going for a gin means communicating with MrsAndyjr1515 after I've been hiding in the cellar all day doing this stuff... 

[TheGreek]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I also remembered the final "once you've spent all that time joining the body parts and thicknessing them and fitting the braces and tap tuning the top and sorting the kerf strip and sorting the join shapes and cutting the soundhole and making the rosette and fitting it and the purfling around it and gluing the top on and fitting the back on and routing the binding slots and fitting the purfling and bending the binding and gluing it and stretching the fibreglass tape and next door neighbours kids bicycle tyres round then fixing the bits that didn't quite work and scraping the bits flush that did" - yes, after all THAT then..."You need to clamp the complete large dreadnought body somehow without crushing it and rout a large slot through the sides into the neck block with the hand router that you wreck most other things you use it on and which, if it is the slightest bit out alignment in any of the three planes, will render the guitar unfinishable." 

I didn't realise you were a rapper...

[Andyjr1515]

OK - this is where I have to repeat the warning to folks who may not have seen my other builds - and especially any 'beginner' builders.

It is simply this.  My threads describe how I personally go about things - and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.  Generally I detail both. 

They are statements of how I have done things but are never - and will never be - statements of 'this is how it should be done.'  I am essentially a bedroom builder and quite often - through necessity or because I have difficulties with the way most builders do things - I go about things differently to the 'conventional' way.  When they work, no one is more surprised than me .  So by all means try things the same way if you think that it will work in your particular situation - but please NEVER assume I know what I'm doing!

So

Ironing on binding. (See what I mean  )

I've got to that age where I forget things - and when I did the binding for the top, I had forgotten that I once did binding a different way which suited me much, much better.

Those of you who have followed any of my veneering threads (or saw my demo at the last Midlands Bass Bash) know that I use Evostick wood glue as an iron-on adhesive.  And I tried it once on binding.  So here goes again!

Basically - other than the iron and a pair of gloves - this is the kit.  No bicycle inner tubes in sight (quick snap of the local kids in the street )

- I paint a thin but complete coat of the PVA onto the binding channel - including the bottom edge (important)

- then I do the same with the binding (again including the bottom edge)

 

- I let it dry (15-20mins but once dry this will work even days later).  You can tell it's dry because it goes clear.

 

- and then I iron it on.  I use an old heatshrink iron myself simply because MrsAndyjr1515 goes apes**t if I use her iron - but any hot iron (used dry) will do.

 

- note no fibreglass reinforced tape.  No bicycle inner tubes.  AND THIS IS COMPETELY NON-TIME DEPENDANT  so even here - halfway through, I can go for a coffee and comeback and carry on!!!!  Basically, I position the binding in the slot and run the iron back and forward over the flat side of the binding, say, a couple of inches at a time.  After 30 secs or so, I then hold the binding firm against the flat side and pressing it down to properly bottom to the channel floor (hence the gloves!) for 10 secs or so until the glue has sufficiently cooled to re-solidify the glue.

- Note also IT IS COMPLETELY REPEATABLE.  If after it's cooled, you realise say that there's a bit of a gap, you just iron it again until the glue melts and press it firm until it cools

- once it has cooled, then it won't move again unless you re-iron it.  So you don't need tape.  The 6" attached above is the finished job!

- once the whole length is attached, you can immediately start scraping / sanding / chiselling.  There is no further glue setting time.

- which is what I did.  The binding on the right is where I was 1/2hr after the above photo:

- and, ignoring the rookie tearout on the back wood mentioned in an earlier post, here's what the other side of the joint came out like:

 

This method suits me personally much. much more than the first method.  Just got to remember if there is ever a next time to do it this way next time!

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

Similar shot to one of the ones above but the more observant will see that the fretboard is now fretted

[Andyjr1515]

And to the next very scary bit.  Routing out the neck mortice.

First of all I needed to set the neck heel and tenon angle and shape.  

For the angle, I sorted an offcut block, planed to the exact size of the fretted fretboard, at the heel point and put a straight edge up to the top of the unsaddled bridge to work out the neck angle:

 

Then to do it - yes, you guessed it - another jig!

This is one I cobbled together for the last acoustic build and is an old-workmate based simplified version of the fancy and ingenious O'Brien / LMI rig.  This allows cutting the neck heel angle, the heel template positioning and clamping and also the body clamping and mortice template routing.

First off was to transfer the neck angle to the rough-cut heel.  The jig clamps the neck - positioned vertically by a couple of pegs that slot in the truss-rod groove, all of which is on a hinged ply leaf, settable at the above angle:

 

With a couple of stiff bearers, this allowed the heel to be routed at the correct angle:

 

Then a quick check that the angle is right before I start doing stuff that can't be undone:

 

And then the G&W Mortice/Tenon template is positioned and stuck with double-sided tape (I did put screws in, but for the other template!) to tidy it up to dimension and shape:

 

And then onto the body.

So I tell you what....let's just suspend this fragile body, clamped between two jaws of a workmate and dangling a foot over the concrete cellar floor...

Call me an over cautious wuss, but I put an old towel underneath...

Note that, for this template, the fixing screws actually fit

And with that routed to around 14mm depth, we have a decently fitting mortice and tenon ready for aligning, edge relieving, flossing and, ultimately, fixing:

 

Still got loads to do but in the meantime, I'd better get on and order a trussrod - going to need it soon 

 

 

 

[honza992]

Nothing constructive to contribute other than admiration.  I hoestly believe that if you can craft an acoustic then you are a luthier.  The rest of us are just builders.  

Great work.  Carry on!

[Andyjr1515]

OK - I think this is the last structural task on the body itself - the binding closure at the tailstock.  I used a router guide bush with the same mortise template to rout the groove out for it and then finished off with chisels:

 

Better get that trussrod ordered because finishing the neck is the next task!

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

OK - I think this is the last structural task on the body itself - the binding closure at the tailstock.  I used a router guide bush with the same mortise template to rout the groove out for it and then finished off with chisels:

 

Better get that trussrod ordered because finishing the neck is the next task!

You are displaying one of the most interesting bottoms I have seen on the 'net for some time my friend.

Heeheehee, it's a cracker!

[Si600]

The grain pattern gives the illusion that it curves in towards the middle binding, or that could just be me...

[Andyjr1515]

9 hours ago, Si600 said:

The grain pattern gives the illusion that it curves in towards the middle binding, or that could just be me...

I thought the same when I saw the photo... to the point that I double checked!!  But no - it's OK and is flat as a pancake

[SpondonBassed]

21 hours ago, Si600 said:

The grain pattern gives the illusion that it curves in towards the middle binding, or that could just be me...

 

11 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I thought the same when I saw the photo... to the point that I double checked!!  But no - it's OK and is flat as a pancake

Yes.

For saying it is the butt end of the instrument it has grain features that you can lose yourself in until you drag your eye back to that neat binding.  When order is restored to your visual cortex sufficient for another dip into that moody sea-like grain, your eye goes right back for another surf across the ripples.

The near symmetry is a real tease.

Every time I look, I see something new and I look for its complement on the opposite side of the centre line.  When the finish brings out the full depth and colour of that timber, it's going to blow everyone away.

I am going to get sympathetic contractions in the days immediately before Andy births the instrument.  Lets wish him a comfortable and natural delivery*.

*Andy - This is not a guitar that I'd recommend for tw4tting some lairy yoof across the back of the nut with.  It's just as well that old scrotes like us mellow with age.

[LukeFRC]

I tell you what - this is very much making me appreciate the work that must have gone into my accoustic 

[Andyjr1515]

5 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

 

I am going to get sympathetic contractions in the days immediately before Andy births the instrument.  Lets wish him a comfortable and natural delivery*.

 

Well - your analogy clearly involves some extra-sensory perception because I am actually typing this from Aberdeen Maternity Hospital where our eldest daughter has just made us grandparents!

The three ladies are busy doing lady stuff I have no interest in knowing about which is why I'm in the waiting room catching up on Basschat. How's that for dedication!

[Jimothey]

30 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Well - your analogy clearly involves some extra-sensory perception because I am actually typing this from Aberdeen Maternity Hospital where our eldest daughter has just made us grandparents!

The three ladies are busy doing lady stuff I have no interest in knowing about which is why I'm in the waiting room catching up on Basschat. How's that for dedication!

Congrats!! 😁 

[TheGreek]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Well - your analogy clearly involves some extra-sensory perception because I am actually typing this from Aberdeen Maternity Hospital where our eldest daughter has just made us grandparents!

The three ladies are busy doing lady stuff I have no interest in knowing about which is why I'm in the waiting room catching up on Basschat. How's that for dedication!

Congratulations....naming the bass after the baby???

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

our eldest daughter has just made us grandparents!

Congratulations Grandad!

What a cohinky-dinky.

[Si600]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

Congratulations....naming the bass after the baby???

Naming the baby after a bass?

[Zalastar]

28 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

our eldest daughter has just made us grandparents!

Congrats, now will your next build be a mini bass for the little one?