The mod formerly known as AVRI P into PT (a.k.a. Project Thunderblackstone)

[HazBeen]

This is not so much of a build thread YET as I am waiting on components, but I am hoping to get some of your views on this.

So I have this rather lovely AVRI 57 Precision, Blond finish, Ash body, maple neck. All the Ps I ever owned ended up as a PJ and after some initial hesitation (this would be the first AVRI I mod) I decided to do the mod. Then I saw a video of Pino with a Precision with Thunderbird pickups, similar to a Lull PT4. He used it for the Who and d’Angelo. See halftime SuperBowl sho 2010 with the Who for example.

So I have decided to increase the scope of the mod quite a bit, I will be turning my Fender into a Fender PT4! Pic of Pino’s attached, he has the pickups in Thunderbird position, I may be going for the Lull approach, i.e. Neck pickup in P location and Bridge pickup in Jazz (60s) position.

I don’t have copious amounts of time, but who cares right? 

Stuff to do:

- Create new router template for the T pickups, I am going full size (covering most of the body) as I will be routing a nitro body and do not want to damage the finish

- Route the pickup cavities

- use the existing scratchplate to create a template with T pickup hole

- make the new scratchplate

- make a side input jack OR (not totally sure what I prefer yet) enlarge cavity for an additional pot (keeping jack input where it is)

- redo wiring (500k volumes, 250k tone with Orange drop)

I will take pictures and post them, but it will take a few weeks before I have all parts I need. So that gives me time to ask some questions/input.

1. Is what I am doing blasphemy? Not that I mind btw, but good to get some opinions

2. Does routing in a nitro finish raise any specific concerns?

3. Side or front jack?

4. When routing I generally use double sided tape to stick the template onto the body, any thoughts on if this could damage the finish?

5. Tort or black scratchplate? I am leaning towards black for some reason

6. TB (as Pino’s) or PJ pickup (as a Lull) placement?

Thanks all, looking forward to this build and appreciate any input you want to give.

Haz

Edited August 6, 2018 by HazBeen

[Shambo]

Don't do it!

Can't you sell the AVRI and use the proceeds to get a luthier to make you what you want? Or buy a new body for it and mod that instead? Or use a more common second hand american standard that might benefit from the TLC? You'd be making an irreversable mod to a valuable guitar rendering it virually unsellable to anybody who isn't looking for that specific model with that exact specification, ie nobody but yourself.

Only joking! It's your guitar and if that's what makes you happy. Perhaps you want to take it to the grave with you. You pay's your money and takes your choice.

But seriously, don't.

[SpondonBassed]

35 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

2. Does routing in a nitro finish raise any specific concerns?

There is a risk of chipping at the edges of your rout.

I'd suggest that you apply masking tape and accurately mark out the outline of your rout then cut the outline with a scalpel before you rout.  When you rout don't go right up to the line.  Instead finish the cut with a hand chisel.

[HazBeen]

6 minutes ago, Shambo said:

Don't do it!

Can't you sell the AVRI and use the proceeds to get a luthier to make you what you want? Or buy a new body for it and mod that instead? Or use a more common second hand american standard that might benefit from the TLC? You'd be making an irreversable mod to a valuable guitar rendering it virually unsellable to anybody who isn't looking for that specific model with that exact specification, ie nobody but yourself.

Only joking! It's your guitar and if that's what makes you happy. Perhaps you want to take it to the grave with you. You pay's your money and takes your choice.

But seriously, don't.

A luthier building it will be more expensive than just modding the P. I am more than capable of doing it, so to me it makes sense. Resale value never bothers me, I own several basses that are just for me anyway. But I get the sentiment.

[HazBeen]

7 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

There is a risk of chipping at the edges of your rout.

I'd suggest that you apply masking tape and accurately mark out the outline of your rout then cut the outline with a scalpel before you rout.  When you rout don't go right up to the line.  Instead finish the cut with a hand chisel.

I alway use masking tape anyway, so good to hear what I would have done is what you advise. Chisel the sides,  would a quality router bit not work just fine if you have done the outline with a scalpel?

[No. 8 Wire]

9 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

A luthier building it will be more expensive than just modding the P. I am more than capable of doing it, so to me it makes sense. Resale value never bothers me, I own several basses that are just for me anyway. But I get the sentiment.

I would use a new body to do it. Not so much because you could rebuild the AVRI if you wanted to, although that would be a bonus, more because the cost will be negligible compared to the pickups and other components. Most of all, I think it would be easier to rout into a blank rather that mod an existing body.

Also i would want the TB position like Pino, because if you are going to do it, go all the way!  Also I might be inclined to finish the bass in TB colours too.

[SpondonBassed]

4 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

I alway use masking tape anyway, so good to hear what I would have done is what you advise. Chisel the sides,  would a quality router bit not work just fine if you have done the outline with a scalpel?

If you are very lucky, yes.

How lucky do you feel?  It's a router.  They're capable of destroying a carefully planned job in an instant.  Okay, it's probably going to be hidden under the scratchplate but you asked if there were any concerns.

[HazBeen]

32 minutes ago, No. 8 Wire said:

I would use a new body to do it. Not so much because you could rebuild the AVRI if you wanted to, although that would be a bonus, more because the cost will be negligible compared to the pickups and other components. Most of all, I think it would be easier to rout into a blank rather that mod an existing body.

Also i would want the TB position like Pino, because if you are going to do it, go all the way!  Also I might be inclined to finish the bass in TB colours too.

Good point re the TB position. I live the TB tone but I do not like the look and the neck dive even less. Food for thought.

Re the body, true it would be easier and I could put it together again as a P. I like no finish (well just oil), and a new body would give me the option of just going oil finish.

Going to let it sink in.

[HazBeen]

I have an even better plan potentially

My 2nd Bogart 4 plays really well but I prefer my main (the splatter finish one).

Since it is a JB (60’s spacing) the pickup placement is quite close to a TBird already. I had been speaking to Stefan Hess (the builder) about doing a few mods on te bass, but as it is a composite body I wanted a few pointers. He mentioned it is very similar (actually easier, no splinters) to route a Blackstone polycarbonate body compared to wood. Once the T pups arrive I am going to do some more detailed measurements, but I may do away with the  PT idea completely in favour of something more quirky. A Thunderblackstone!

Status does the B2, so Thunderbird-esque graphite instruments exist . 

Watch this space. 

See pic, my main splatter finish 4 in the background plus my 8 string.

[Norris]

If you are set on routing it, warming the lacquer first with a hairdryer may help avoid chipping.

[SpondonBassed]

This just got REALLY interesting.

Haz, this would put you at the cutting edge of Build Diary home builds.  I wish you luck.

[HazBeen]

3 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

This just got REALLY interesting.

Haz, this would put you at the cutting edge of Build Diary home builds.  I wish you luck.

Ha ha....

I need to rename the posting as I have done the measurements, basically using my trusty calipers on a picture of a Thunderbird at full zoom and then transposing measurements to full 34” scale. Thank you maths... the P is staying a P.

As I do not want to tamper with the graphite neck I cannot get the front pickup in the period correct spot exactly, but very close and the back pickup I can get just right. Thunderblackstone it is!

Project estimated start date end of August on a build diary near you , will focus on the build element first but if it turns out right I will also do a repaint in TB Pelham Blue at a later stage.

Edited August 6, 2018 by HazBeen

[HazBeen]

The Thunderbird pickups will be with me next week so just getting things together. Needed to buy a view “tools” and some parts.

 

[HazBeen]

Have also stripped and gutted the Bogart

[HazBeen]

To give it a more “classic” look I have decided to create a Fortress Flashback type pickguard in 3 ply black. I’ve always liked the Flashback pickguard look. See pic for an example.

Also need to install new side dots (nothing special, but some of the old one have sunk a little), so another small task to add.

The benefit of going fuller size pickguard is also that I can go with more exact pickup placement and can place control knobs wherever I choose if it improves esthetics. I will be creating a pickguard template in cardboard, then transferring onto 12mm MDF and I will use the MDF template as the template for the pickguard AND as the pickup route template, it just makes sense.

So next installment, template time...

[HazBeen]

New side dots installed (just a light final sanding to go).

 

[HazBeen]

1st pickup template done, I am pretty happy with the design although will tweak the top curve to better follow the body.

[Bigwan]

I thought you were mad with the Flashback idea, but that might just work!!!

[Happy Jack]

Now me, I'd have gone with LED side dots ...

[HazBeen]

8 hours ago, Bigwan said:

I thought you were mad with the Flashback idea, but that might just work!!!

I may change my mind still, but after a little tweaking I think it looks very “natural”. Time will tell. Now for the bloomin’ pickups to arrive...

[HazBeen]

8 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

Now me, I'd have gone with LED side dots ...

Only if you let me try the install on your Lull first

[Chimike]

Always fancied the idea of trying Thunderbird pickups, so when a coupla chinese clones came up for sale, I did this, with some bits I had lying around .

I really, really like it. Great punch.

[HazBeen]

31 minutes ago, Chimike said:

Always fancied the idea of trying Thunderbird pickups, so when a coupla chinese clones came up for sale, I did this, with some bits I had lying around .

I really, really like it. Great punch.

This was my original plan as well! But BC would not let me mutilate my AVRI..... (just kidding). Very nice!

[HazBeen]

Not much progress due to lack of time, but such is. Pickups have arrived at least.

Scratchplate shape finalised and transferred onto MDF (twice, in case I mess up). No bandsaw unfortunately....

 

[Jimothey]

6 hours ago, HazBeen said:

Not much progress due to lack of time, but such is. Pickups have arrived at least.

Scratchplate shape finalised and transferred onto MDF (twice, in case I mess up). No bandsaw unfortunately....

 

I think that's gonna look really good!! What are you going to make it out of? 

I was considering doing that style pickguard on my nod to a fortress build (5 string Ibanez new body thread) but I bottled it and did a Adam Clayton streamer style pickguard instead 😀

Edited August 17, 2018 by Jimothey