What do you value about your local music shop?

[dmccombe7]

One other thing many of us seem to forget is the physical size of London. Its huge so when you say go across London that's further than me going into Glasgow.

Dave

[mentalextra]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

One other thing many of us seem to forget is the physical size of London. Its huge so when you say go across London that's further than me going into Glasgow.

Dave

Yes, I totally understand that many guys don't like it. But it works for me.

[Len_derby]

I've been following this thread with interest and over the last week had the opportunity to do a little comparison with retail outlets in a different market.

Mrs Len is a keen sea kayaker and I've just come back from a week in Anglesey north Wales. Brilliant coastline and relatively empty of tourists.

Anyway, we visited 3 different specialist gear shops for sea sports. These are my observations.

All had on-line/website options, what percentage of their turnover this represented I don't know.

There is great local knowledge and experience in the people that work there but their attitude is very laid-back and you don't get hassled. Newbies didn't get patronised either. I tried asking a few silly questions as a test.

They'd all dumped the high street presence. All three were in edge of town business-park/warehousing type locations. Not pretty, but lots of free parking on-site. Water sport is similar to music in that, for most of us, if you haven't got wheels you're stuffed.

They were all very definitely 'hang out' spots. All had tea/coffee machines, seating areas and lots of info and notices on the walls. For participants of the sports these are the places to go.

My patience was rewarded when Mrs Len bought me a nice Rab base-layer top.

At the till the bronzed and buffed chap said 'we're doing a special offer on these on the website, I'll give you that price'. He didn't have to, we would never have known, but it was a nice touch.

Not a scientific comparison, but it was interesting to see how a different high-value specialist retail sector operates.

[tb4sbp2]

I get that the bigger chain stores hire employees that are more an employee than musician or gear head. So I know what to expect with the big store. We have one smaller music store left in our little city. And I had been a devoted customer for years. The last time I was in there however the new staff did not know anything. They relied on looking stuff up on google. One story is a customer I was talking with had a guitar (Strat copy and I cannot think of the make at this moment which is bugging me!) that he won and was looking to sell it. The clerk behind the counter said that he didn't recognize the make and that he couldn't even make an offer because someone else was using the computer. I looked at the wall of guitars  and hanging up was the same guitar (different color) for $400. 

From this story and several others I lost heart in the store

I used to like going into the small music stores but they are all drying up in my area 

[Mastodon2]

I like the fact that within twenty minutes I can be in Newcastle in my local shop to get consumables - strings, cables etc if I need them immediately and don't want to wait for overnight shipping. 

 

Their bass selection, both in terms of amps and bass guitars, is absolutely dire. Unless you really, really like Fender Rumble amps and Fender Ps. 

[lozkerr]

On 08/08/2018 at 11:21, Meddle said:

In Edinburgh, I enjoyed scouting out 'Live Music' the most, as they had cool used gear, hardware and pedals. It has gone, leaving Scayles which is expensive and generic, Red Dog Music which is much the same (and they've shrunk their bass section) 

Shrunk it? They've bloody decimated it! I nipped in there on my lunch break today and they had seven basses for sale. Plus all of four (I counted 'em) Orange combos in the noise department.

That's right. Seven. In a shop smack bang in the centre of the capital.

I was quite taken aback, although I'd just gone in to see if they had any interesting sheet music. They didn't, but they did have a lot of tutorial books - Rockschool, Hal Leonard method and so on. That, plus their not having any high-end kit at all seems to suggest they're aiming at the entry-level bass market to the exclusion of just about everything else. A shame.

[lozkerr]

On 09/10/2018 at 20:40, Meddle said:

This is where bricks and mortar shops seem to go. I went into Rikki's Music in Leith, and it was all entry-level guitars. Some quite cool stuff however.

When I was a kid, the shops in Stirling and Perth all sold Westfield, Vintage, Encore and stuff like that. Small shops don't want a £1500 Les Paul gathering dust in the window for years, so they gravitate towards the cheaper end. Guitar Guitar is our best hope! 

Red Dog seems to have gone phut. I noticed the Grassmarket branch was closed today, and their website says they're in administration.

dub-a-dum-dum-dum... another one bites the dust ☹️

[Wylie]

On August 6, 2018 at 09:30, MiltyG565 said:

I've been thinking quite a bit about retail recently, and as some of you may know I used to work in a small music shop a few years ago. I think that music shops really add something different to the standard town-centre offering of hairdressers, coffee shops, bars, and restaurants, but for them to be sustainable businesses, they rely on our custom, so I'm curious to know - What do you like about your local music shop? Why do you shop there? Would you say you're a loyal customer? What don't you like about it?

Not much, sorry to say. The owner often has loud radio going (Rush Limbaugh) and his large dog greets you with barking and then wants to nuzzle your privates. If you want to try a guitar, okay--but you can't use a pick. It's discouraging, almost as if he doesn't want to be bothered with business.

[PaulWarning]

I was chatting the the guy that ran a music shop that's just closed down (he was mentioned earlier in the thread) and he said business had just gone downhill, when he first opened about 12 years ago he was doing £2-3K a week during the run up to Christmas, lucky to do that a month in the run up to last Christmas, most of his business in the end was selling second hand guitars for other people and just taking a commission, just wasn't worth it.

The business model for small shops has been shot to pieces by the internet, it's probably the biggest change to our lives since the railways.

[Lfalex v1.1]

The only one left that I frequent is Strings Direct / Holiday Music, and then only if I fancy a trip out that way.

They're primarily an online retailer, but piggy-back a retail shop off of the online warehouse.

Monumentally huge selection of strings and stuff. Generally very knowledgeable staff, too. Very few instruments and zero basses these days, though.

[Barking Spiders]

that it's local 🙂

[LeftyP]

I thought I would re-activate this subject as I have just paid a visit to Promenade Music in Morecambe.  The Lancashire sea side town is just over an hour's drive south down the M6 from my Cumbrian home and today turned out to be quite mild and sunny for February!  I had forgotten what a great music shop Promenade is.  You name the musical instrument and they will probably have it tucked away somewhere.  There were loads of bass guitars and electric guitars in the basement with keyboards and a huge selection of acoustic guitars upstairs.  Brass and woodwind instruments were on display too.

I was looking for a gig bag for my Italia Maranello Cavo bass guitar, which is a bit small to fill out a standard bass bag but too large for an electric guitar bag!  We tried a few but nothing was suitable.  I was blown away by the selection of musical instruments they had, with more bass guitars than to could wish for.  It's worth a visit if you fancy a day out.

[ChrisLovatt]

I live in Stoke on Trent and over the past 10 years most music shops around me have either downsized or shut down completely, there's 3 main ones left now but their selection of basses is pretty lacklustre. Nice people and that but they tend to focus on the guitars instead.

Recently went over to RichToneMusic in Sheffield to sell my Warwick and their selection of basses was really great. Spent about an hour in there noodling around on a Stingray.

[Guest oZZma]

There is a "local" music shop (actually it's a warehouse) here that is, I think, as big as Thomann. They have one whole depot for each instrument, you can try EVERYTHING you want and they have great deals on used stuff too! It's a bit far from the city but we organize a trip to try stuff once in a while 

For stuff like cables/strings/picks I have a guitar shop at a ridiculous distance from home. No way I wait 2/3 days for a cable just to save 2€. But for other than that, I have always bought used stuff, so... I'm not that great client, for either online or local shops

 

[Quatschmacher]

3 hours ago, ChrisLovatt said:

Recently went over to RichToneMusic in Sheffield to sell my Warwick and their selection of basses was really great. Spent about an hour in there noodling around on a Stingray.

Was just about to post about this. RichTone (https://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/) is my local shop and I can’t say enough good things about it. First and foremost, the staff are all really great people - friendly, helpful and absolutely zero sales pressure. They also really take care of their customers. One staff member managed to bend the rules slightly to make sure there was a particular pedal sent to the store from the warehouse so I could try it out. I’ve been having problems with my synth (which I originally bought from them)  which has twice come back from the Moog distributor with damage after a routine calibration and they are being great in helping get it sorted out.

They have a well-stocked showroom and one is free to try out stuff with no pressure. They get some pretty good used gear in too.

I try to do all my purchasing there wherever possible and they will price match. I wish I’d discovered it sooner, it’s been there over twelve years but I only started shopping there a couple of years ago. 

[MiltyG565]

In the 5 and a half years since starting this thread, my views have matured and developed as far as retail/shop frontage is concerned.

 

I think one of the primary issues facing a lot of retail businesses in our towns and cities today is falling footfall. Many towns have a few big-name stores that still entice people in, and they probably lift the businesses around them, and without which, most of the smaller businesses would also likely stop trading.

 

Probably, for too long, it was a given that people would go to a town centre as it was necessary in order to get the things that they needed. That obviously started to go the moment the supermarkets picked up sticks and all bought large, cheap plots on the outskirts of towns and built massive one-stop-shops with endless parking. If people are no longer coming into your town centre out of necessity, then they will only do it out of desire.

 

Town centres moving to more service/experience based outlets has helped keep some footfall in some areas, but many town centres require significant investment to transform them into community spaces rather than small central business districts (which is what they were in days gone by). This means improving shopfronts and common areas, pedestrianising large parts of town centres, and permitting parades and entertainment.

 

Rents and rates are far too high in this country, and vary greatly depending on where you are. In Spain, for example, rent on retail units can be almost absurdly cheap (a few hundred euros per month), and this is ideal for small local businesses, and stops every town looking the same by having the same few big-name shops surrounded by, more often than not, discount retailers and charity shops. For the rates businesses pay here, they aren't even getting their bins collected - they're being charged a tax based on a philosophy not relevant for at least 15 years; that they had to pay more for their location because it was good for their business.

 

A wholesale transformation of town centres to make them pleasant, enjoyable places, with interesting local retailers and things to do, without being cluttered with cars - this is the reset that they need. But, I fear, this is too radical for some, and even if it wasn't, probably would never come to pass anyway. The mere thought of pedestrianisation would send some into a tailspin. Alas, it's been shown to work, and it's not just for the benefit of businesses, it's to make a communal area for everyone.

 

Aside from that, what's changed in music retail in the intervening years? Not a lot. Most shops continue to get by on selling consumables with the occasional high-ticket price item. I think nothing will really change about that until the environment they are trading in changes. And of course, as many have said, many people may be in the business because they love music and perhaps thought it was a way they could indulge their passion while making money, but perhaps don't have the business acumen or the people skills to really make it work, and for a long time got by on people really not having any other choice, and you're probably right. The fact is that it's a business like almost any other, and it requires careful planning, astute decision making, and to trade on sound business principles, particularly that of superior service. Nobody can defend the indefensible, and perhaps why so many of these business disappeared was because suddenly people had other options. I also don't believe that being local is a good enough reason by itself to shop anywhere. The problem is that even local businesses are competing globally now, because they have to compete with Mr. Bezos and Mr. Thomann - there is no getting away from that. The fact is they need to be differentiated in order to compete.

 

The reason this is interesting to me is because people will often cry foul of businesses closing in their local town, and I understand why, but these are often rational and dispassionate business decisions based on sound commercial factors. So are these people simply the vocal minority, or do people truly want bustling town centres with interesting shops in them again?

 

Anyway, that's probably enough of my insomnia-addled rambling for now.

[NancyJohnson]

On 08/08/2018 at 11:47, NancyJohnson said:

What do I value? Yikes. Nothing.

My local/nearest shop, and I'll name and shame here, is Amen Corner Music in Bracknell and it's a filthy, ramshackle, woeful dump of a place.  Tired old stock, dire stock selection, ancient string and spares selection, the place stinks of dog and general unpleasantness.  The owner said once that he didn't know whether he would have what qualified as a good year until he knew how many violin kits he'd sell at the start of each school year.

 

It is honestly little wonder it survives and while it's always worth the trek to Andertons in Guildford if I want to peruse gear.

 

Otherwise, I'll buy online.

 

It's odd seeing a thread resurrection that you have zero memory of contributing to.

 

The owner of Amen Corner Music passed away a short time after my post and the store had a 48-hour fire sale to clear the stock.  I went over out of curiosity more than anything else, just to see the inside of the place, but had no intention of buying anything.

 

In death came probably their biggest trading weekend ever; the place was full of people literally fighting over the same tired old stock/junk that had hung on wall hangers ignored for years, all overseen by a few clueless offspring/relatives of the deceased owner.  It was like hyaenas fighting over the scraps of a long dead zebra carcass.

 

The people clearing the shop were just accepting ridiculous offers on kit and I often wonder whether I could have thrown in a £100 offer for an old Hamer USA guitar and had it accepted.

 

 

[Maude]

On 07/08/2018 at 03:59, Bluewine said:

Thing is, I've dropped a lot of cash at Cream City. Some of you have seen pics of my 1991 Gibson Thunderbird, German made Hofner Club bass with Cavern Club PU spacing, my Gold Top Les Paul bass and my Gibson ES-335 Bass in vintage faded cherry with vanilla binding. All purchased from Cream City

( they ship to the UK)

https://www.creamcitymusic.com/

When I walk into that store they treat me like a king and the owner always comes out to talk with me.

Blue

An old post I realise Blue, but it made me chuckle, and realise something. You're promoting your local bricks and mortar store, that have obviously given you good service, by stating "they ship to the UK" and linking to their website. 

To me they are just another online retailer taking business away from my local bricks and mortar store.

 

Which made me realise after reading through this old thread that most of the 'local' stores people are talking about are big online retailers as well, GAK, Andertons, PMT, Promenade, Merchant City Music, Guitar Guitar, etc, OK they're not Amazon or Thomann but still very big online players. 

So by using them, and I do, I am supporting someone else's local shop, arent I? 

 

It's just inevitable progress I feel, if someone can offer you a service that suits your needs better, you'll use it. 

I assume there were similar woe as cities expanded, swallowing up surrounding towns and villages, leading to city centre retail taking over from local high streets.

 

If physical shops can provide service that is preferable to the customer and profitable to the business then they'll win out. Unfortunately I honestly don't see how a small, local music shop can do this so their customer base will continue to dwindle until it reaches a balance point, if at this balance point they are not profitable then it's game over. 

 

Another nail in their coffin, I think, is that playing musical instruments just isn't as popular as it was years ago. I may be biased but I feel that my generation (teenagers in the 80s & 90s) were the last generation when playing in band was popular. Sure teenagers still do but I think the number of kids that want to has been steadily dropping since the 60s/70s. Since the 2000s using computers for music has become far more commonplace and you don't go into a music shop for the latest hardware or software.

I don't know where any of this going, much like the retail business, so I'll stop rambling now .

 

[nekomatic]

A music shop opened in my suburb about a year ago and I've dropped in a couple of times and chatted with the owner. I think he's retired from whatever it is he used to do and he told me he actually owns the building it's in, so his costs are low. He's got a fair selection of guitars, amps, pedals, some basses, various other instruments, and accessory bits and bobs… but the honest truth is that while I would be willing to pay a bit extra to buy something there rather than order it, I don't spend much money on gear and what I would be interested in is stuff he hasn't got. Last time I went in I bought a secondhand strap for eight quid and asked about a GK MB200 he had in, which I don't need nearly enough to buy one. So, you know, it's nice to have a local music shop and good luck to him but it's not going to survive on the custom of people like me.

[jimmyb625]

I've not seen this thread before and it's been quite an interesting read.

 

My own tale goes back to 2012, at Forsyth's in Manchester. My partner and I had an agreement where we bought each other something significant to mark the birth of our children (in 2007 it was a 5 string Bongo for me) and this time, I was thinking about a nice acoustic. 

At the time, my eldest (5 years) had started to take piano lessons, so we took her along with us, so she could look at the selection they had (they specialise in pianos). 

The staff in the guitar department couldn't have been more helpful, bringing a selection along to me to try out and at no point pressured me with anything. I was pretty much left to my own devices with a brilliant collection of high end guitars, although it only took 5 seconds on the second guitar to decide.

Whilst I was ham-fistedly banging away on these, my daughter took it upon herself to go and "try" some of the pianos they had in stock. For a good half hour, she played a range of acoustic pianos going from "cheap" uprights to some top of the range Schimmels. The staff in the piano department never once told her she couldn't touch them, or tried to move her on and encouraged her to continue.

 

That's what I value about a good music shop.

 

As a footnote, we didn't buy either a guitar, or a grand piano that day, but a few weeks later on Christmas day, the guitar I'd fallen in love with was presented to me.

 

 

[BigRedX]

The problem with all music shops is that now we have the internet to see what is available throughout the world they can no longer carry sufficient range of stock whether it be picks and stings, high-tech instruments and effects or anything in between to satisfy anyone other than those with the most mainstream of tastes. And nor should we expect them to.

 

Consumables are easier to buy in bulk on-line where the choice is unlimited and the only real restriction is price.

 

Even the ability to try before you buy IMO is over-rated. In the last 20 years I have tried 2 basses before paying for them. One was fine played sitting down in the shop. Within a week of getting it home and using it with my band I discovered so may short-comings that it was moved on and replaced with something that I bought on the strength of some nice photos and a decent reputation of the brand. The other has had a couple of years of use but has now been relegated to a back-up instrument as a result of buying something else on-line. For me trying in the shop is close to worthless. It's only when I'm playing with my band that I can make any meaningful decisions about an instrument or other piece of musical equipment.

 

The last time I went to my local music shop to get a hands-on demonstration of a pice of musical equipment, the department I wanted to go to was closed and no-one appeared to be interested in opening it to serve me. So I bought something from Amazon on spec alone knowing that if I didn't get on with it, I'd be able to return it for a full refund, no questions asked.

Edited March 19 by BigRedX

[petebassist]

 

[neepheid]

Can't say my local music shops do much for me these days.  I try to throw them a bone when I need some strings or other wee doodad but I live in a small city and the selection just isn't there.  Thankfully my preferred strings are D'addario XL nickel rounds and they're pretty much universally available.

 

The local branch of Kenny's tries to be everything to everyone in a relatively small space and economics dictates that bass gets squeezed into a little corner dwarfed by the selection of skinny stringers, electric and acoustic.  I wouldn't be surprised if that's a phenomonon repeated in every small city.

 

The other place is more of a second hand instrument type place, with a similar ratio of guitars:bass, but I have used them on occasion for repairs (when I made a ballsup of rewiring my LP and I couldn't face starting again) and again the odd set of strings or a gigbag.

 

It's just the way it is, and the way it has been for some time.  They follow the money, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn we're outnumbered by guitarists ten to one.

[Crusoe]

One of the shops local to me, Matchetts, is actually quite competitive with the other online retailers when it comes to price (they do have online shopping too, which can be handy for click and collect). but they do offer a lot of other services too. They have instructional sessions, where you can book in and they will show you basic set-up techniques, for example; how to change strings, tune up, check the action and so on. They had a guy in from D'Addario a while back to demonstrate the new Xpand pedal board. I got a free t-shirt and won a tuning pedal. I had a guitar lesson last week and my tutor had bought a new PRS guitar and asked if I wanted to try it. I gave him my Ibanez and he was raving about the set up on it. I'd done nothing to the set-up; that was all down to the guys in the shop. He liked it so much that he wants to borrow it to make some videos for his business social media accounts. 

[ezbass]

21 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

The local branch of Kenny's tries to be everything to everyone in a relatively small space and economics dictates that bass gets squeezed into a little corner dwarfed by the selection of skinny stringers, electric and acoustic.  I wouldn't be surprised if that's a phenomonon repeated in every small city.

Kenny’s in Dundee is much the same, the basses are in a sort of corridor, probably no more than a dozen or so total. Perth has nothing other than a secondhand store that falls under the general heading of Crack Converters. Fortunately for me, Guitar Guitar in Edinburgh (Costorphine really) is only 90 minutes away, which is only half an hour more than Dundee from where I am and was well worth the visit I made last time.