Bilbo Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Hey, guys. I have a problem you may be able to help me with. I have just had a new adjustable bridge fitted which has made my bass much easier to play but, an unforeseen problem has arisen in that the pick up I was using, a K&K Double Big Twin, now makes a previously lush sounding bass sound bloody awful (thin, boxy and generally nasty)!! I think it is because the pads that are stuck to the bridge are not getting a proper connection so the signal is weak and the eq possibilities limited (I use AI Clarus so it's not the amp/cab). I have come to the conclusion that I need a new pick up arrangement so wanted some advice. The sound I am looking for is Charlie Haden rather than Ron Carter - think wood rather than string/bridge; woody rather than bright. Any recommendations/experiences with the other pick ups on the market. Budget is 'I can't afford anything but will find a way'!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Have you tried shimming the pickup elements to adjust the tightness of fit in the bridge wings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) If you want to get the wood tone out of your double bass, this is the best solution, not cheap, but terrific : https://www.thomann.de/gb/dpa_d_vote_core_4099_bass.htm Somebody made two soundclips comparing the DPA 4099 to the David Gage Realist Wood (put some headphones) : Edited August 10, 2018 by Hellzero Put some headphones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said: Have you tried shimming the pickup elements to adjust the tightness of fit in the bridge wings? +1 If you still have your old bridge, note the friction when installing the pickup in the wing slots. If it's too loose or even too tight, that will affect the tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 This pick up doesn't use the wing slots, it is the one with piezo pads stuck on the underside of the bridge. I think the problem I have is that the adhesive that is sticking the pads onto the bridge is not providing a solid enough seal to allow for a string signal. The adhesive pads provided when you first buy the pick up cannot be re-used so I had to just glue them on but the glue used appears to interrupt the signal rather than facilitate it's passage. That's the only explanation I can find for the difference between the sound I had before the bridge was changed and the sound I have now (I have to put ALL the bass on the Clarus and roll off ALL of the mid-range and top and it STILL doesn't have the warmth I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bilbo said: ... The adhesive pads provided when you first buy the pick up cannot be re-used... Have you tried 'phoning or mailing K&K for an other set of stick-on tape for the pads..? They must have surely come across the case before. What glue did you use..? I hope you didn't glue directly to the pick-up pad itself; did you put the glue on the old (no longer sticky...) pad tape..? Here's what they say about using the tape... Using Double-sided Adhesive Tape ... Edited August 10, 2018 by Dad3353 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggering on Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) The Double Big Twin is not fitted in the wing slots,the piezo pads(4) are held to the bridge with adhesive.I have the same pickup on the Engelhardt Swingmaster ES 9 that I recently bought used and am awaiting the arrival of a KNA DB-1 pickup that I ordered from Gollihur.Mark suggested this wood encased wing pickup for my bass to cut some of the string noise and get a more woody sound.It also has a higher output than the K&K and I may not need to use the preamp(K&K) that came with the bass. I am expecting the pickup soon and will report on its performance.A little research that I did turned up a lot of positive reviews for the DB-1,including comments from some BC members. The KNA is also one of the lowest priced pickups which is a bonus if it works well.Many of you know the Gollihur site, it is a goldmine of information and they know what they are talking about and ship worldwide.They are in the USA but have sent my pickup to me in Canada with no issues, they do this stuff all the time.Mark will answer email or phone questions about all of the products they sell and just about anything else related to basses. Edit-some of the above comments came while I was writing, sorry about the repetition. Edited August 10, 2018 by Staggering on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 What type of glue did you use ? If it's cyanocrylate type, it won't work. Just wipe the old adhesives and put some fresh ones, just like Douglas said while I was writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 There it is, K&K double-sided adhesive : http://www.bluestarmusic.com/KK-Double-Sided-Adhesive-Strips-for-Contact-Pickups_p_766.html And the instructions : http://kksound.com/support/doublesidetape.php 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 That's interesting. The description talks about 'acoustically transparent' adhesive. I suspect the stuff I used was not transparent so I have effectively put a block on the signal. That might explain things. I will get some of that and try it before I go and spend £600 on a DPA 4099B!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bilbo said: I will get some of that and try it before I go and spend £600 on a DPA 4099B!! Although, that does sound lush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bilbo said: ...I suspect the stuff I used was not transparent ... No indeed; Blu Tack is not transparent (it's blue..!) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 If anyone is considering the KNA pickup, it's worth mentioning that Thomann stock it (branded "Fire and Stone" for some reason), and it may work out cheaper than ordering from the US. I picked one up recently after my J-Tone wing pickup stopped working, though I won't have it out for a gig until next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Bilbo, have a look into the Remic Live Bass mic. It is not cheap but I think it would serve you well. Prior to that I did ok with an Upton Revolution solo which is a lot cheaper. In case you go for that, following their online video instructions is paramount for fitting and I still needed a fair bit of eq for lush sound v piezo clank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 I'm sure it'll be the adhesive that's the problem. Our mandolinist had a stick on p/u a while back that had some special gum type adhesive with it. He couldn't find it and tried a double-sided foam tape pad and it was terrible for the sound. My theory is that the foam was acting like a damper and absorbing the vibrations. If your bass sounds the same acoustically with the new bridge then it surely can't be the bridge changing the sound with the p/u, can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I have a j-tone which I really like. Might be worth getting one as they're very cheap and do deliver a usable sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 I used Hell zero's link and ordered the tape from the US. I just received this..... Rob, re: Order #198237 1 K&K Double Sided Adhesive Strips for Contact Pickups This item is very small and will fit into a standard envelope. We can ship this to the UK for $3.25 via USPS First Class Letter International (you paid $14.00 for USPS First Class Parcel shipping). The shipping time should be about the same, but there is no tracking for letters. We will update your order for First Class Letter shipping and ship this out tomorrow (Tuesday, Aug. 13th). We will also refund the difference in shipping costs to your PayPal account after we ship this item. If you prefer to use First Class Parcel shipping please let me know before then, thanks! Ted Blue Blue Star Music 858-312-1174 (M-F, 9-5 Pacific time) 800-581-STAR (toll free within U.S.) http://www.bluestarmusic.com Kudos to these guy!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 32 minutes ago, Bilbo said: ...Kudos to these guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Indeed. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 So it's official ... there really is such a thing as 'tone glue'? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 There has always been such glue, named fish glue and modern version called aliphatic glue. Those glues transmit the vibration, when classical white carpenter glue or other ones just absorb the vibration, so can't be decently used for instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggering on Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) On 10/08/2018 at 08:10, Staggering on said: The Double Big Twin is not fitted in the wing slots,the piezo pads(4) are held to the bridge with adhesive.I have the same pickup on the Engelhardt Swingmaster ES 9 that I recently bought used and am awaiting the arrival of a KNA DB-1 pickup that I ordered from Gollihur.Mark suggested this wood encased wing pickup for my bass to cut some of the string noise and get a more woody sound.It also has a higher output than the K&K and I may not need to use the preamp(K&K) that came with the bass. I am expecting the pickup soon and will report on its performance.A little research that I did turned up a lot of positive reviews for the DB-1,including comments from some BC members. The KNA is also one of the lowest priced pickups which is a bonus if it works well.Many of you know the Gollihur site, it is a goldmine of information and they know what they are talking about and ship worldwide.They are in the USA but have sent my pickup to me in Canada with no issues, they do this stuff all the time.Mark will answer email or phone questions about all of the products they sell and just about anything else related to basses. Edit-some of the above comments came while I was writing, sorry about the repetition. KNA DB-1 pickup This pickup is a wing slot type and I had to do little bit of filing and sanding to get a perfect fit but it comes with wood shims that are used to make a snug installation so it was really very easy to fit.The extra information/instruction sheet that Mark Gollihur writes and is included when you order from him was much better than the basic instructions that came from KNA,Mark was in on the development of this pickup and his advice is always good about anything related to basses.The pickups are made in Europe. I haven't spent too much time with it yet but it is definitely a lot different than the K&K Double Big Twin that came with the bass.Output is significantly higher direct to the amp or preamp and the tone is much more woody and can be shaped easily with amp or preamp.I installed it in the G side wing slot as KNA suggests and it is quite even across all the strings, unlike the K&K that was hard to balance both tone and volume across the strings. I might have more to add after I have tried it at a gig through the Bose PA but at this point it's a definite thumbs up for me. Edited August 21, 2018 by Staggering on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 10/08/2018 at 12:32, Hellzero said: If you want to get the wood tone out of your double bass, this is the best solution, not cheap, but terrific : https://www.thomann.de/gb/dpa_d_vote_core_4099_bass.htm Somebody made two soundclips comparing the DPA 4099 to the David Gage Realist Wood (put some headphones) : Nice comparison. Thanks for sharing that video. Superb pickup - pricey though, as you say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 17/08/2018 at 17:35, Happy Jack said: So it's official ... there really is such a thing as 'tone glue'? I'm sure there's such a thing as a "tone sniffer" as well HJ Thanks for your description and information Hellzero.... it's something I would never have thought about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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