Warwick basses - when did they up their game?

[bakerster135]

I used to own a 2001 Streamer Stage 2 which was an absolutely flawless bass in every respect apart from the plastic nut (Just-A-Nut 2). Ended up trading it and have always regretted the decision... 

[LukeFRC]

On 15/08/2018 at 20:53, Kev said:

Interesting.  My thumb can get ridiculously low, far lower than I could be comfortable playing!  They are a bit different to set up right, particularly the older ones.

Ah you got a thumb again in the end? 

[LukeFRC]

I think Kev has got it about right... 

2013 is when they started focusing on making less higher quality (and price) basses, started using wenge then and using solid brass hardware. 

They went a bit mainstream with the whole nu metal thing around the millennium and the quality and neck size reportedly got worse. 

Pre 1997 is given as when the quality dropped according to forums... no idea why but mid 1992 they moved the factory to the former east Germany and fell out with Schaller which meant not using solid brass bits... so that seems to be a major change... 

1991 or earlier are nice, often with thinner necks. My main bass is a 1991 streamer stage one which is amazing, although I’ve got Barts and an acg preamp in it. I’ve also a 1985 JD thumb bass which is amazing but I’m not jelling with as much but it’s pretty nice to have one of the first few thumb basses ever made

[Kev]

17 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Ah you got a thumb again in the end? 

Yeah man, Thumbed up for over a year again now, many a gig and now an album to show for it  

[LukeFRC]

13 minutes ago, Kev said:

Yeah man, Thumbed up for over a year again now, many a gig and now an album to show for it  

Are you 4 or 5 strings at the moment? A neck through I’m guessing? 

Also what strings you recommend for it? 

Edited August 17, 2018 by LukeFRC

[Kev]

'89 NT 4, Dunlop Nickle Super Bright 105s 

[Linus27]

I've had 2 Warwick basses, a fretless Streamer Jazzman, 2006 I think and a 2012 Streamer LX, both German. The Jazzman was built like a tank, had a chunky neck and sounded beautiful. Did a few gigs and recording sessions and it never let me down. It was a wonderful bass. The 2012 Streamer LX that I bought new was a different beast. Lovely looking bass but the sound was thin and didn't have much bark. Certainly lacked that Warwick growl. The neck was also thin and the whole bass felt cheap and flimsy. Quality was poor, the jack socket broke within a year and one of the pickups fell out because the mounting was broken from factory. It was a lovely looking bass but it felt like a cheap imitation even though it cost around £1700 at the time. I did borrow once a Streamer Stage 1 from about 1991 and apart from a dodgy jack socket, it was gorgeous. Sounded amazing and played beautifully.

[Chris2112]

I don't think they have ever been through a rough patch, but the post 2000 period was probably a low point for them, because...

1) The JAN II just wasn't good enough. I don't think I have ever seen a used JAN II model that didn't have the tabs on the side of the nut snapped off. That's easily sorted these days but at the time, it was clearly inferior.

2) The move to ovangkol necks away from wenge. The wenge necks looked better, sounded better and felt better. The ovankgol necks not only sounded worse, but they were cut much fatter too. I had a 1998 Thumb BO 4 string with a wenge neck and a 2005 or 2006 BO 5 Broad Neck. The sound and feel was remarkably different. I once played a violin-honey colour Corvette FNA Jazzman at Howard's and it had a disproportionately massive, clubby neck and miserable tone. I can get on with most any neck so it takes a real stinker to stand out. 

I never found any reasonable explanation as to why Warwick shifted from a slim C shaped neck to a fat D profile. Perhaps the ovangkol couldn't be cut as thin as wenge. 

 

Whilst Warwick have clearly upped their game, they're still in a bit of a range-mess. Aside from the master built stuff, I'm not sure what's German and whats Korean. Their prices have ballooned but they still tank in value massively on the used market.

[Bridgehouse]

It’s funny isn’t it - back in the late 90s when I first played bass (had a gap as a multiinstrumentalist from 2000-2011ish) everyone I spoke to said “don’t buy a Warwick, they were ace but they are rubbish now” - so I didn’t and it’s sort of affected my view - I kinda don’t usually consider them as an option. Hmmm.

[Al Krow]

11 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I think Kev has got it about right... 

2013 is when they started focusing on making less more higher quality (and price) basses, started using wenge then and using solid brass hardware. 

Thanks Luke - but I think you meant "more" in your post? If so please feel free to correct to avoid us mere mortals getting confused.

But a great illustration of when "less is more" right? 🤣

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

Whilst Warwick have clearly upped their game, they're still in a bit of a range-mess. Aside from the master built stuff, I'm not sure what's German and whats Korean. Their prices have ballooned but they still tank in value massively on the used market.

...yup and probably more so than many brands in terms of s/h value tanking? Not helped by the massive spike in new prices for German Wicks from £800 around 2011 to £2,500+ today which muddies the water as to what a s/h Warwick is worth e.g. is it worth £850 so that a 2011 (or earlier) model owner who bought new is making a profit or £1,250 meaning that a 2017 model owner who bought new is making a massive loss?

The flip side is that a s/h Warwick is not going to be outrageously priced and should retain its value pretty well i.e. the "hit" is largely taken by whoever had the privilege and, more to the point the funds to buy new.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Al Krow

[Chris2112]

Yes, they are excellent used buys. Check out the guy who took a total bath here recently on a Masterbuilt Stuart Hamm Streamer for a sobering read. Circa £5000 new, couldn't sell for a third of that a few months later...

[Mastodon2]

I have a Thumb 5 BO, 2004 or 2005 (I can't remember which, 90% sure it's 2004), ovangkol neck and body, ebony fingerboard. Supposedly the worst of the worst for Warwicks, but it sounds amazing and plays beautifully - the action is lowest out of all of my basses, if it was fretless you'd be able set it up almost impossibly low. It is brighter and growlier than the all bubinga Thumbs, so it's probably not to everyone's taste. Just about the only upgrade I would make would be a brass nut but given that it only affects the tone on open notes I just don't think it's worth the hassle, not when it sounds and plays like it does now.

Maybe I should be worried that the nut will snap, the neck will warp or the truss rod will break. Maybe I'll just keep playing it and enjoying it.

If you've never played a Warwick, don't be put off by the "baseball bat neck" stuff. Sure, they're not Jazz thin, but they're more ergonomically designed than a tradition P bass neck, they have been made with the form of the human hand as a consideration. I was playing a Fender P this morning and couldn't get over how blocky the neck was. That said, I'm of the opinion that if you're of the right mindset, you can adapt to any neck type - I've got a Peavey Palaedium that makes a Jazz feel fat and I've got a Raro 6 string that is huge and I don't struggle on any them. If you can cope with a 4 string P bass you can play any Warwick without issue, as long as you have good left hand technique. If you tend to let your thumb slip over onto the fretboard you might have issues, but I think that would be the case if you were playing a 5 or 6 string from any manufacturer, not just Warwick.

[aguacollas]

1 hour ago, Chris2112 said:

 The move to ovangkol necks away from wenge. The wenge necks looked better, sounded better and felt better. The ovankgol necks not only sounded worse, but they were cut much fatter too. I had a 1998 Thumb BO 4 string with a wenge neck and a 2005 or 2006 BO 5 Broad Neck. The sound and feel was remarkably different. I once played a violin-honey colour Corvette FNA Jazzman at Howard's and it had a disproportionately massive, clubby neck and miserable tone. I can get on with most any neck so it takes a real stinker to stand out. 

I disagree. Wenge definitely looks better most of the times, and has a snappier more maple-ish sound, Ovangkol is mellower and not as beautiful, but sounds great. And it feels good to my fingers too.

I have to say I prefer having Ovangkol in my 2007 Streamer Stage II. It sounds and looks amazing and it doesn’t need any more snappiness or clarity to its sound. Neck is massive, but you get used to it, I find it more comfortable for my hand, in fact. It feels a more natural ergonomic position for the hand. 

I have a 2003 Corvette Fna jazzman too, and the neck on the SSII is even chunkier, specially when in the upper frets. Not a problem, just a different design, you may like it and get used to it or not  

I have a 1987 cherry Streamer with slim wenge neck and is gorgeous looking and sounding, and you can feel it’s been hand made and unique. Love the sound and feel of that bass, though the routing of the pickups is not great, much tighter in a 1983 matsumoku I have. But you can definitely feel the difference between 80s Warwicks an 2000s. And yet, the Jazzman and SSII are amazing basses with its own voice. I like that. 

I’d like to play one of the new ones, but strangely lately I find I only want used, well played basses, with years of gigs if possible. My latest purchase was a 1982 Ibanez Roadster that sounds completely different to a Warwick and has many scars on it. I wouldn’t change it for any new Wick, no matter how shiny and great sounding. I guess I’m getting old. 

 

ovangkol on a 2005 SSII I traded some years ago:

Edited August 18, 2018 by aguacollas

[MikanHannille]

On 15/08/2018 at 20:53, Kev said:

The barrel jack socket is rubbish and failed on every Warwick I owned apart from the latest one.

Agree on this one. I only had one out of six that I owned that the jack socket did not fail.

[mcnach]

On 15/08/2018 at 18:24, Al Krow said:

Seen a Streamer Stage 1 up for sale on another forum which turns out to be a 2006 model. Looks gorgeous and I'm very tempted but...

At the back of my mind I've got a nagging feeling that Warwick went through a rough patch in terms of quality around 1996(??) to 2011(??), but then sorted themselves out, introduced the GPS and Masterbuilt ranges and the prices of their new basses rocketed from £800 to £2,500+ from 2012 to 2014.

Is any of that correct?

What were typically the concerns / issues with the pre-2011 basses?

 

I had a 2003 Corvette and a 2005 Corvette $$ and both were superb... but the necks had an unusually clubby profile (and I like chunky necks) which is the only reason I sold the $$. I'd enquire about the neck profile on the 2006 one you've seen, as chances are they were still using the clubby necks and you might not like them.

[Dubs]

You cannot beat getting hands-on with the instrument.

Some good points in this thread, but all to be taken with a pinch of salt unless they're referring to the bass you're looking at. I've owned a few Warwicks made between '94-'04 (SSI, SSII, Thumb BO, Streamer BO, Streamer Std), 1 was a dog, 1 was a gem that I shouldn't have sold (the one that got away!) and I was reasonably happy with the others. All played differently though... you need to get hands-on with it to really have any idea what it's like.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Chris2112 said:

Yes, they are excellent used buys. Check out the guy who took a total bath here recently on a Masterbuilt Stuart Hamm Streamer for a sobering read. Circa £5000 new, couldn't sell for a third of that a few months later...

I did feel for him, as I suspect we all did.

If it hadn't been that particular colour I'd have been really tempted at the final FS asking price even though it was a 4 string and I'm kinda focusing on 5ers these days... I guess when you're forking out > £1k for a bass, you kinda want it be something you really like looking at as well as playing. (Or am I just being too fussy on that score?)

[Al Krow]

15 minutes ago, Dubs said:

You cannot beat getting hands-on with the instrument.

Some good points in this thread, but all to be taken with a pinch of salt unless they're referring to the bass you're looking at. I've owned a few Warwicks made between '94-'04 (SSI, SSII, Thumb BO, Streamer BO, Streamer Std), 1 was a dog, 1 was a gem that I shouldn't have sold (the one that got away!) and I was reasonably happy with the others. All played differently though... you need to get hands-on with it to really have any idea what it's like.

That has to be a "must do" rule if you possibly can with any bass purchase right?

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I did feel for him, as I suspect we all did.

If it hadn't been that particular colour I'd have been really tempted at the final FS asking price even though it was a 4 string and I'm kinda focusing on 5ers these days... I guess when you're forking out > £1k for a bass, you kinda want it be something you really like looking at as well as playing. (Or am I just being too fussy on that score?)

No I don’t think you are being fussy - it’s a buyers market in the used stuff these days - there’s a lot about for sale but not a massive number of buyers. 

There’s lots of great bargains to be had and if you are spending your hard earned dosh then why not be picky?

[aguacollas]

Regarding the original post 2006 SSI, I guess any faulty tuner have already broken and have been replaced, I wouldn’t worry about that, it happened to my 03 Corvette, replaced 4 tuners that broke over 3 years, now it’s been ok for 10 years, so no problem with that, they should’ve stick with Schaller though. I have two spare tuners just in case. 

The barrel socket ends up failing sooner or later, cheap replacement, like strings have to be replaced now and then.

If the neck and truss-rod is ok, it sure is a great model. Of course the late 80s Streamer were supposed to have better woods in them, but you can’t hand pick wood for thousands of basses when your company grows that big. 

You can when it is a small factory. It happens to many builders. Apparently maruszczyk is having the same problems lately, as many have in the past. That’s why my 1987 Streamer looks and feels different to my 2007 SSII. 

If you find a good one... they are really really good. 

@Al Krow

Edited August 18, 2018 by aguacollas

[4000]

2 hours ago, aguacollas said:

I disagree. Wenge definitely looks better most of the times, and has a snappier more maple-ish sound, Ovangkol is mellower and not as beautiful, but sounds great. And it feels good to my fingers too.

I have to say I prefer having Ovangkol in my 2007 Streamer Stage II. It sounds and looks amazing and it doesn’t need any more snappiness or clarity to its sound. Neck is massive, but you get used to it, I find it more comfortable for my hand, in fact. It feels a more natural ergonomic position for the hand. 

I have a 2003 Corvette Fna jazzman too, and the neck on the SSII is even chunkier, specially when in the upper frets. Not a problem, just a different design, you may like it and get used to it or not  

I have a 1987 cherry Streamer with slim wenge neck and is gorgeous looking and sounding, and you can feel it’s been hand made and unique. Love the sound and feel of that bass, though the routing of the pickups is not great, much tighter in a 1983 matsumoku I have. But you can definitely feel the difference between 80s Warwicks an 2000s. And yet, the Jazzman and SSII are amazing basses with its own voice. I like that. 

I’d like to play one of the new ones, but strangely lately I find I only want used, well played basses, with years of gigs if possible. My latest purchase was a 1982 Ibanez Roadster that sounds completely different to a Warwick and has many scars on it. I wouldn’t change it for any new Wick, no matter how shiny and great sounding. I guess I’m getting old. 

 

ovangkol on a 2005 SSII I traded some years ago:

I'm with Chris. I've played a hell of a lot of Warwicks and I've yet to play one with an Ovangkol neck that I like the sound of. Every wenge-necked Warwick I've played has sounded miles better to me, but I guess like everything else most of it's down to personal taste. 

[aguacollas]

My first good bass was an Ovangkol necked Warwick, and I played that bass for years before playing a wenge neck. Now I own and like both types. I can understand why many prefer the old basses with wenge neck, though. 

A strange choice, ovangkol to substitute wenge. Such a different tone. 

[LukeFRC]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks Luke - but I think you meant "more" in your post? If so please feel free to correct to avoid us mere mortals getting confused.

But a great illustration of when "less is more" right? 🤣

You are right, I was wrong.

[Chris2112]

7 hours ago, 4000 said:

I'm with Chris. I've played a hell of a lot of Warwicks and I've yet to play one with an Ovangkol neck that I like the sound of. Every wenge-necked Warwick I've played has sounded miles better to me, but I guess like everything else most of it's down to personal taste. 

 

I just find that the wenge accentuates the upper mids more than ovangkol. The ovangkol does sound good but it's not as 'tight' sounding to my ears as wenge. No Thumb is lacking in midrange but the specific frequencies which each wood accentuates differ. I say this as a connoisseur of Thumbs. I adore them. I can't walk into a room with a Thumb in it without picking it up. I fancy that I might own an NT 4 in the future - wenge neck plz!

 

The best Warwick I've ever played was a 1990 Streamer Ltd Edition that I owned a few years back. Bartolini soapbars, solid birdseye maple wings and a maple thru-neck. It had a lot of Spector quality in the tone. An exceptional bass.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Chris2112