Time for a rig upgrade - Help!

[urbanx]

Here's the story: Current rig: Hartke 350w head - Marshall 4x10 (600w) 

The Band: One guitar, one bass, drummer singer. Loud, brash, rap metal / grunge. 

The Problem: OK my rig is overkill for 99% of our gigs where decent venues run it fairly quiet on stage, and loud out front, that's fine. BUT (and that's a big 'but')

We've played two outdoor festivals this week where they have been unable / unwilling to DI or Mic any of the amps. Yes really. One was a headline slot at a 5,000 person festival, just played through amps alone.  I know how crap this is. I'm wireless and was in the crowd by the first song - on my side of the stage the maxed out amp was all you could hear, a few steps over and it was pure guitar. Awful mix, but the volume just wasn't there. 6 days later, headlining another festival, exactly the same. 

 

The situation is far from ideal, and I know a lot of peoples reactions will be "Concentrating on playing better organised events than getting a bigger amp"  But the fact is a struggling originals grunge / punk band cant be choosers. It's happening more and more and more that that we're playing through amps alone. I need to move more air. 

The constraints: I own a hatchback, I cant get an 8x10 in.

Solutions: This is where I need your help. Ideas so far have been:

• Use a 6x10
• Add a 1x15? 
• Upgrade to Hartke 500w head, my cab can take it. Will adding a few watts even help?
• Bite the bullet - 800w TC Electronic head & Hydrive 1000w 410. I love the idea of this rig, it'd fit in my car, but would it even really be much louder in an outdoor festival situation? 

 

Help!

I know all you ol' hands will say to try and improve the situation, but TBH the nature of our band / gigs really doesn't match that model. Our guitarist just bought a SM57 and mini mic stand this morning in the hope that might encourage sound men / women to mic him! Argh!  

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by urbanx

[chris_b]

What sort of festivals are you playing? What did all the other bands on the bill use? What was their sound like? I've done about 5 this year from small to large and we had FOH every time.

Short of bringing 15 SVT's there is nothing you can do to make the sound work for these gigs. They are always full FOH for a reason. If some brain-dead promoter is making these decisions there's nothing you can do about it.

[AREA]

18 minutes ago, chris_b said:

What sort of festivals are you playing? What did all the other bands on the bill use? What was their sound like? I've done about 5 this year from small to large and we had FOH every time.

Short of bringing 15 SVT's there is nothing you can do to make the sound work for these gigs. They are always full FOH for a reason. If some brain-dead promoter is making these decisions there's nothing you can do about it.

+1 for that.....I would say, the only Thing you can do is: Stop dealing with that kind of stupid Event Mangers, that allow or organize a 5000 People Venue, without adequate PA and FOH Stuff...

Edited August 18, 2018 by AREA

[la bam]

Dont waste you money firstly. Dont forget if you have no FOH at all, you could buy x100 svts etc to be heard........but then no one will hear the drums. Unless theyre micd up....in which case theres no reason they cant di the bass as well.

Youll just end up sounding bad as a band, but also damaging your own hearing getting it that loud so someone half a mile away can hear it.

IF, and its a BIG IF, you really wanted to carry on this route, youd be better investing in PA for the whole band to get a good mix, and putting that through the event PA.

Either way, the events sound really really clueless.

Edited August 19, 2018 by la bam

[mcnach]

12 hours ago, urbanx said:

Here's the story: Current rig: Hartke 350w head - Marshall 4x10 (600w) 

The Band: One guitar, one bass, drummer singer. Loud, brash, rap metal / grunge. 

The Problem: OK my rig is overkill for 99% of our gigs where decent venues run it fairly quiet on stage, and loud out front, that's fine. BUT (and that's a big 'but')

We've played two outdoor festivals this week where they have been unable / unwilling to DI or Mic any of the amps. Yes really. One was a headline slot at a 5,000 person festival, just played through amps alone.  I know how crap this is. I'm wireless and was in the crowd by the first song - on my side of the stage the maxed out amp was all you could hear, a few steps over and it was pure guitar. Awful mix, but the volume just wasn't there. 6 days later, headlining another festival, exactly the same. 

 

The situation is far from ideal, and I know a lot of peoples reactions will be "Concentrating on playing better organised events than getting a bigger amp"  But the fact is a struggling originals grunge / punk band cant be choosers. It's happening more and more and more that that we're playing through amps alone. I need to move more air. 

The constraints: I own a hatchback, I cant get an 8x10 in.

Solutions: This is where I need your help. Ideas so far have been:

• Use a 6x10
• Add a 1x15? 
• Upgrade to Hartke 500w head, my cab can take it. Will adding a few watts even help?
• Bite the bullet - 800w TC Electronic head & Hydrive 1000w 410. I love the idea of this rig, it'd fit in my car, but would it even really be much louder in an outdoor festival situation? 

 

Help!

I know all you ol' hands will say to try and improve the situation, but TBH the nature of our band / gigs really doesn't match that model. Our guitarist just bought a SM57 and mini mic stand this morning in the hope that might encourage sound men / women to mic him! Argh!  

 

 

 

 

 

No reasonable amp will be able to cope with an outdoor gig the size you're implying. The improvements you suggest will be louder but not significantly louder for a situation like this... 

I'd keep the present gear, and not play those gigs... or be happy with the fact that only the first row will get you. The drummer goes acoustically too, I guess... so no point getting going much louder than he is. 

 

[Lozz196]

To cover 5000 people outside a 500 watt amp won`t make much, if any difference. More speakers may well help a bit but I`m in agreement with the guys above, the sound-people who made the decision to not have instruments going through the FOH need taking to the side of the stage and shooting. That`s - I`m assuming - people paying good money to have to listen to that because that sound crew can`t be bothered, those people deserve the best sound possible, not the worst possible.

[urbanx]

Hi Guys, thanks for your help. I have decided in your wisdoms not to upgrade. As a few of you mentioned a few extra watts probably wouldn’t make any difference in those situations anyway.

 

Just a little more background on the two festivals mentioned - We ‘headlined’ both, and were also the only ‘full band’ to at each:

 

The first was my home city’s first ever Pride Festival – a cause close to my heart. I was so thrilled to be accepted to play, I would have played it whatever the conditions.

It is a completely free festival.

The ‘sound man’ was a volunteer who owned a PA.

 

Act before us was a choir, whom he used 5 mic’s for. “Happy days” we thought, “Two for our vox, two for our amps, and one on the drums”. Unfortunately when it came to our turn to play he could only get ONE mic working, and none of the monitors! Much fiddling, crowd getting ansey, so we just had to start playing.

 

The second one was very similar: Festival at a hospital, essentially a party for staff and patients, few stalls other bits and bobs etc. ‘Sound man’ was a staff member who was in a band, and had access to a PA. Again he didn’t want us meddling with it, but also couldn’t seem to be able to get sound from our cabs to the PA.

 

Neither ideal, I’m now a lot wiser about what gigs we’d accept, and what to expect. Would I play these two again? Absolutely.

[big rob]

I Have a TC RS4x10 for sale if it helps.