How do I control volume between finger and plec style

[bayles]

Hi Folks .. Maybe similar question to this has been asked before but hear it goes anyway. 

Recently I have been getting a bit of aggravation from our drummer regarding the volume change between finger style and plec playing during a gig. As we are a cover band I do what the song requires weather it be "Plec" , "Finger" , "Slap" .. etc .. I recently changed rig but this was also an issue from time to time with the old one .. Im thinking maybe a compression peddle !! .. If so can anyone recommend a good one for the job. 

For clarity on this topic Im currently using.. 2 x 1x12 EBS classic,s with a reidmar 500 head .. 70s P Bass with active EMGs .... 88 Warwick Streamer .. 

The drummer may have a point , he isint  the only person to have noticed it but he is the one suffering as the amp is right beside him  , we all wear plugs at our gigs but it still seems to be an issue for him. I haven't noticed it but everytime i switch to plec playing mid gig i now try and hold back on the "attack" a bit .. it proves difficult as im changing the way i play .. 

Anyway , thanks for any advice .. 

[ambient]

Practice so your pick strokes have the same dynamic. Just sit down and practice going from one to the other.

[Dood]

20 minutes ago, ambient said:

Practice so your pick strokes have the same dynamic. Just sit down and practice going from one to the other.

Absolutely. I do this with all of my right hand playing techniques. Also worth practicing stood up too in your chosen performance stance. This is because often people will hunch down on say a sofa and practice like mad, but when they get up, all of their playing angles change and undo all the hard work.*

 

* (I know that you didn't mean specifically sat down Ambient, lol but it did allow me to offer another view point too) 

 

On the subject of your gear - The EMG pickups (non-X models) do a certain amount to control your levels. You also have a compressor already on the Reidmar 500. You could look at it's operation and see if that helps in the meantime whilst you try some technique drills. 

[Phil_T]

isn't it just a fact that playing with a pick is going to be louder than finger style? Why can't you just turn down your guitar volume or adjust the amp to compensate?

[Dood]

3 minutes ago, Phil_T said:

isn't it just a fact that playing with a pick is going to be louder than finger style? Why can't you just turn down your guitar volume or adjust the amp to compensate?

Rather than louder, I would say tonally different. It doesn’t have to be louder, if you see what I mean.  My slap volume is pretty much the same volume as my finger style. Unless it’s a sound check in which case I will give FOH my loudest sound to set up gain levels. Nothing like striking the low B with a bit more gusto than usual! 

[Dood]

6 minutes ago, Phil_T said:

isn't it just a fact that playing with a pick is going to be louder than finger style? Why can't you just turn down your guitar volume or adjust the amp to compensate?

As an after thought, unless it is a slow moving piece, switching from finger style to pick and turning down either amp / bass at the same time might prove to be awkward?

[Phil_T]

I think it is a bit louder but I agree about the tone change that it definitely adds to the perceived volume increase.

[Phil_T]

4 minutes ago, dood said:

As an after thought, unless it is a slow moving piece, switching from finger style to pick and turning down either amp / bass at the same time might prove to be awkward?

I took it that the OP meant switching styles between songs, not during

Edited August 19, 2018 by Phil_T

[Delberthot]

In the past I have used an EQ pedal to balance between the two styles but these days I seem to the same level whether fingers or plectrum so I've maybe just balanced both styles out during the years

[BrunoBass]

4 hours ago, Phil_T said:

isn't it just a fact that playing with a pick is going to be louder than finger style? Why can't you just turn down your guitar volume or adjust the amp to compensate?

This ^

I set the amp for finger style and then just knock the volume and tone controls back a touch when using a pick - easy and quick in a live environment. 

Our set is probably 70/30 favouring fingerstyle, although last nights gig was 100% pick due to me slicing my index finger open earlier in the week.

Edited August 19, 2018 by BrunoBass

[4000]

1 hour ago, Phil_T said:

isn't it just a fact that playing with a pick is going to be louder than finger style? Why can't you just turn down your guitar volume or adjust the amp to compensate?

Have never understood this assumption. It’s like people automatically assume that if you play with a pick you must have a right hand like Lemmy. I use a pick & play really, really lightly, unless I’m digging in on purpose.

In fact I think all of the 100% fingerstyle players I know play way harder than me.

Edited August 19, 2018 by 4000

[FinnDave]

i am primarily a pick player these days, but spent many years playing only finger style. I can say with certainty that I dug in much harder with the fingers than I do with the pick, possibly because the attack of the pick gives the note more clarity, so avoiding the need to dig in hard.

[Cuzzie]

Good advice hear, but I am on the side of perceived loudness as a pick will cut through a little more due to a material difference between plastic/wood whatever you are using and finger pulp

[steantval]

I don’t.

My volume pot on my bass is always set full on whether I play with my fingers or a pick.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by steantval

[uk_lefty]

My pick playing is noticeably louder. If using my p bass I roll down the volume on the bass, it's always on full for finger style. If it's my jazz bass... I haven't figured that out yet!

[BrunoBass]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

My pick playing is noticeably louder. If using my p bass I roll down the volume on the bass, it's always on full for finger style. If it's my jazz bass... I haven't figured that out yet!

Get it wired with a master volume and a pan pot. I had the same issue and rewiring like that solved it.

[Skybone]

Maybe use a lighter pick for a softer "attack"?

Edited August 20, 2018 by Skybone

[Phil Starr]

Thanks everyone, I'm just starting to play with a pick after years playing with fingers only. It's news to me that you can balance the sound out with technique only so it'll make sense to build this in from the start.

[Cat Burrito]

I flit between the two during sets and it's less of an issue these days so I think the answers around practicing certainly have a lot of validity. I used to use the controls on my amp initially or just slightly roll back the volume on my bass but these days I don't do anything so I reckon my technique must have improved. Either that or my drummer secretly hates me!

[BigRedX]

I've always found it strange that most bassist appear to play louder with a pick than finger style as my experience has always been the reverse, although TBH the difference for me isn't massive and is mostly down to the fact that my finger style tone is slightly more bassy which tends to make it appear slightly louder in the band mix.

I've always used programmable multi-effects, because I find that I need to make tonal changes to go with the change in technique - for me the choice to use a pick or fingers is as much to do with "feel" as it is to with tone.

Edited August 20, 2018 by BigRedX

[nash]

Like Dood said. Practice. I'd also add compression and as also noted maybe changing the plectrum you use.

I've always used  1.0mm Tortex but lately I've been using .88mm, largely down to who I'm working with right now. So I have pockets full at the end of a tour. Saying that I'm really liking the .88mm because it's just a little more flexible. I've worked with a bassist that likes .60mm! a bit thin for me. The funny side to that is he used to throw them out but they'd never make it past the barrier so I'd collect them all after the show for him to use the next show.

[Cuzzie]

Have a look at DAVA picks.

https://www.davapick.com/

i have to use a pick pretty much all the time due to a hurty knuckle.

The rubber is a nice grips.

if I want a strong attack I hit with The uncovered top, if I want a more finger style attack, I turn it in my hand and use the rubber.

good variety

[BigRedX]

5 minutes ago, nash said:

Like Dood said. Practice. I'd also add compression and as also noted maybe changing the plectrum you use.

I'd only consider changing my pick if the alternative reduced the volume difference between pick and finger style and the tonal differences between the two picks was negligible in the overall band mix. For me choice of pick material and thickness is the biggest tonal difference I can get without changing the EQ on my multi-effects.

I certainly wouldn't consider using compression to even out the volume difference between pick and finger style. I find that bass line played with a pick tend to be busier than those I play finger style and I normally need to back off my compression settings give each pick-played note the right amount of definition. If your pick playing is louder than your finger style, compression in this case isn't going to help you.

[Painy]

I have one of these on my board as my Gibson EB13 has a much hotter output than my other basses so this allows me to match the volumes between the instruments at the click of a footswitch. 

Could easily be used for your purposes too. 

https://www.vein-tap.com/product/the-leech-guitar-attenuator/

[Monkey Steve]

Funnily enough I was discussing almost exactly this point with a guitarist I was having a jam with this weekend - it was actually his issue because he's been working on a new technique where he uses a pick for the bass strings and finger style for the treble - the problem wasn't switching styles between songs but different volume across the strings.  He tried using a much lighter pick and that largely solved the issue.

The OP's issue isn't one that troubles me personally, but I'd have thought that if it's purely a volume issue then the solution is simply that the volume needs to be adjusted somewhere, whether on the bass, amp, or somewhere in between.  My own personal solution would be to use something like an MXR MicroAmp, a  straight forward clean boost pedal that you can kick on whenever you switch to finger style.