33" Reverse P/J Jazz bass, blocks & binding (FINISHED PICS)

[honza992]

Hi All

I thought I would do a thread for my next build.  My last couple of builds have been those twangy six string things, so this one will be a bass.  Specs as follows:

4 String Jazz, 33" Scale.

Alder body, flatsawn maple neck, rosewood fretboard with MOP blocks and binding.  

Pickups - P/J 

FInish - some sort of polyurethane, white, either Olympic or Vintage - EDIT - I'm going to try as hard as a I can to brush rather than spray the finish.  I'm really not enjoying spraying.  Time to start experimenting. 

A quick look a the blanks before we start.....

Nothing too complicated in comparison to the amazing and creative luthiery on display elsewhere on Basschat, but believe me this is enough!

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by honza992

[SpondonBassed]

Good to see you back Honza.

[honza992]

Just now, SpondonBassed said:

Good to see you back Honza.

He he nice to be here😀

[honza992]

This thread is 10 seconds old, and already I need your help. 

I was going to try to use a small UK pickup maker but my god they are expensive.  A set from Creamery or Barenuckle will cost more than the rest of the bass put together.  Almost.  Are they worth the money? Alternatively there's a spanish maker I've used before, Jess Loureiro, who can do a a P/J set for 100 euro.  More in budget.  Any other pickup recommendations?

Any advice about what to look for in a P/J set?  Should I think about a split/stacked jazz humbucking pickup in the bridge?

 

[Johnny Wishbone]

Entwistle and Warman are both very good, and dirt cheap.

[honza992]

22 hours ago, Johnny Wishbone said:

Entwistle and Warman are both very good, and dirt cheap.

Thanks I'll take a look. 

[honza992]

I'm bit of a electronics ignoramus. 

Am I right in thinking while two jazz pickups at the same volume will hum cancel, a jazz and a precision pickup won't?

[Johnny Wishbone]

3 minutes ago, honza992 said:

I'm bit of a electronics ignoramus. 

Am I right in thinking while two jazz pickups at the same volume will hum cancel, a jazz and a precision pickup won't?

First part is definitely correct as they effectively become a humbucker.

As to the second part, the P is already a humbucker. You will get some noise from the J in my experience.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Johnny Wishbone

[honza992]

Today I spent a bit of time looking at layout and making templates.  The bass is going to be 33", so I've reduced the overal size of the body slightly, and because the bridge will be right up againt the edge of the body (to improve balance) I've also re-worked the lower horn a bit to allow access to the upper frets. 

For the pickups I'm going to stick with traditional positions for both the P and J pickups.  For the P that's 84% of the scale length away from the nut, and for the J in the 60s position, 92%.  

I also prepared the neck blank.  It came from David Dyke and it's fantastic.  I cut out the neck and thicknessed it down to 20mm and it didn't move a milimetre.  Look at this for symmetrical grain....

Tomorrow, neck pocket.......

[Andyjr1515]

Excellent stuff, @honza992 

Can't wait.  If it turns out anywhere near the standard of your tele build (and I've seen that one close up, folks ) it will be a giant slayer!

[Jabba_the_gut]

Looking forward to this one - that tele bass did look superb. 

For having no hum on pickups I always like EMGs but they aren’t to everyone’s taste.

cheers

[honza992]

11 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Excellent stuff, @honza992 

Can't wait.  If it turns out anywhere near the standard of your tele build (and I've seen that one close up, folks ) it will be a giant slayer!

Thanks Andy.  Your and Christine's blocks have forced me into attempting my own.  And there was me hoping to put my feet up with a cup of tea and a biccy and watch re-runs of Countdown.  Ho hum....

In your Len Derby build you down go into too much detail about how you cut the holes for the blocks themselves.  If you had a few minutes would you be able to quickly run through how you did it?

 

 

[honza992]

25 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

Looking forward to this one - that tele bass did look superb. 

For having no hum on pickups I always like EMGs but they aren’t to everyone’s taste.

cheers

Thanks Jabba. Electronics make me go wobbly, so I've stuck to passive so far.  Maybe next one.....

[Andyjr1515]

1 minute ago, honza992 said:

Thanks Andy.  Your and Christine's blocks have forced me into attempting my own.  And there was me hoping to put my feet up with a cup of tea and a biccy and watch re-runs of Countdown.  Ho hum....

In your Len Derby build you down go into too much detail about how you cut the holes for the blocks themselves.  If you had a few minutes would you be able to quickly run through how you did it?

 

 

Yes - I'll run through it in a post tomorrow.

Is your bass 34"?  If so you are very welcome to borrow the template.

[honza992]

3 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Yes - I'll run through it in a post tomorrow.

Is your bass 34"?  If so you are very welcome to borrow the template.

No, 33".  Why oh why, oh why, oh why do I always have to make things complicated!!

[Jabba_the_gut]

19 minutes ago, honza992 said:

No, 33".  Why oh why, oh why, oh why do I always have to make things complicated!!

I know that feeling. I want a fret scale template for my fret jig. 30", 34" 35" easy enough but no,  I want one that is 800mm. Not 32" (812mm) that would be difficult enough but 800mm...….!!

[Owen]

Catswhiskers pickups are made to order and will not break the bank. Alternatively, wait for a 2nd hand set to come up..

[Andyjr1515]

12 hours ago, honza992 said:

No, 33".  Why oh why, oh why, oh why do I always have to make things complicated!!

Ah - yes....that was in the thread title (it's my age!)

OK.  My view, for what it's worth. 

If I had a set of cut inlays to start with (I didn't on @Len_derby 's build so I routed the chambers first and then cut inlays to fit), I would DEFINITELY use @Christine 's method on Page 5 of her excellent thread:

The only difference I would personally make is that I would radius the board first because:

• I'm comfortable with the additional risk of using my precision router base on a curved surface (but it is an extra risk)
• My router radius rig can be a bit rough on the wood and I would be bothered about losing corners
• I would cut the fret slots first also, because the position of the blocks vs the slots is absolutely critical - and I always radius before I slot
• I would be able to see exactly how deep to rout - critical if the inlay is thin.  Otherwise it is too easy to lose the sides of a wide inlay as you sand away the ends with the radius block!

Illustrating that last point, on my SG build for Pete note that the trapezoidal inlays at the lower frets turn into blocks at the upper frets:

That's not how they started!  They are trapezoids where the ends have been sanded away!!!

More than happy to cover the template approach in more detail than my Swift Lite thread if you want me to, but actually next time (I've been asked to build another one ), I'm going to actually simply use that template to get the right sizes to scribe and then cut my inlays first, and then I'm going to use @Christine 's approach (ie, scribe round the inlay on the fretboard; route the inside area; cut the border with a sharp chisel), albeit with the above differences in terms of doing it post-radius and slotting.

Does that make any sense?

[honza992]

Thanks @Andyjr1515   Yes that all makes perfect sense. 

I'm going to use pre-cut MOP inlays, so agreed, my instinct is also to steal take inspiration from Christine's thread.  Like you my concern was using a router to put on the radius once the inlay channel had already been cut.  I'd actually already posted this exact question on Christine's thread to see whether she found tearout was a problem.  She hasn't replied yet but given she's got triplets that's hardly surprising😮

Can I just ask, when you cut the ...holes?...channels?...troughs?...on the LD build, you had already radiused, so presumably that meant the bottom of the channels were also radiused. Was the ebony thin enough that it could just bend for gluing?  I've checked the supplier and he confirms that this is definitely not an option with MOP, (too brittle) as is routing it once the MOP is already installed. 

So, my normal build order is:

Shape neck...Glue fretboard....rout fretboard flush...cut fret slots.....radius.....insert frets.

Given I am both binding and bocking, I'm thinking of doing the following:

1. Shape neck

2. Glue on fretboard

3.  Rout fretboard to shape

4.  Rout binding channel (I realise this will mean the binding will taper slightly the further up the neck it goes, but given the radius is a pretty flat 12", I'm not too worried)

5.  Cut fret and nut slots

6. Rout channels for block inlays

7.  Radius fretboard

8. Glue in blocks

9. Hand sand blocks down so they are flush with fretboard. 

Luckily I've got some firewood a neck is shaped with fretboard already glued on.  I'll do a complete trial run using that and see how it goes. 

Stay tuned. 

[honza992]

There's been a bit more progress over the last couple of days.  A lot of the techniques I've covered in other threads so I'm not going into too much detail.  But if anyone wants a bit more just let me know.  

First up, threaded inserts for the neck bolts:

The neck pocket is cut, and very very nice it is too.  Even if I do say so myself.  The neck falls in with minimal pressure, but no visual gap at all.  Happy days!

I cut out the body and rout it to size with the template.  Then time to stick it together to make sure everything is in approximately the right place.  It is.  Hurray 😀

[Andyjr1515]

3 minutes ago, honza992 said:

There's been a bit more progress over the last couple of days.  A lot of the techniques I've covered in other threads so I'm not going into too much detail.  But if anyone wants a bit more just let me know.  

First up, threaded inserts for the neck bolts:

The neck pocket is cut, and very very nice it is too.  Even if I do say so myself.  The neck falls in with minimal pressure, but no visual gap at all.  Happy days!

I cut out the body and rout it to size with the template.  Then time to stick it together to make sure everything is in approximately the right place.  It is.  Hurray 😀

That looks great!  You have a precision in your work that I aspire to.

[Andyjr1515]

15 minutes ago, honza992 said:

Thanks @Andyjr1515   Yes that all makes perfect sense. 

I'm going to use pre-cut MOP inlays, so agreed, my instinct is also to steal take inspiration from Christine's thread.  Like you my concern was using a router to put on the radius once the inlay channel had already been cut.  I'd actually already posted this exact question on Christine's thread to see whether she found tearout was a problem.  She hasn't replied yet but given she's got triplets that's hardly surprising😮

Can I just ask, when you cut the ...holes?...channels?...troughs?...on the LD build, you had already radiused, so presumably that meant the bottom of the channels were also radiused. Was the ebony thin enough that it could just bend for gluing?  I've checked the supplier and he confirms that this is definitely not an option with MOP, (too brittle) as is routing it once the MOP is already installed. 

So, my normal build order is:

Shape neck...Glue fretboard....rout fretboard flush...cut fret slots.....radius.....insert frets.

Given I am both binding and bocking, I'm thinking of doing the following:

1. Shape neck

2. Glue on fretboard

3.  Rout fretboard to shape

4.  Rout binding channel (I realise this will mean the binding will taper slightly the further up the neck it goes, but given the radius is a pretty flat 12", I'm not too worried)

5.  Cut fret and nut slots

6. Rout channels for block inlays

7.  Radius fretboard

8. Glue in blocks

9. Hand sand blocks down so they are flush with fretboard. 

Luckily I've got some firewood a neck is shaped with fretboard already glued on.  I'll do a complete trial run using that and see how it goes. 

Stay tuned. 

Yes - I think we all do these things our own preferred way.  My paranoia on tearout is more to do with my dubious radius rig than the likelihood of square chambers tearing out with normal radiusing approaches.  With Neil's bass, using the template system meant that my block chamber bottoms were flat.  If I do what I suggest above, I will end up with curved bottoms and will flatten them off with a chisel - ebony blocks won't bend any better than MoP (ie - not at all).

For the last couple of builds, I have changed to fully finishing the fretboards - including the fret installation - before gluing to the neck.  I found it much, much easier - and it produced a much better result for me -  and will now do that as a norm.  But many (most?) builders do exactly as you describe above.  

[honza992]

19 hours ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

I know that feeling. I want a fret scale template for my fret jig. 30", 34" 35" easy enough but no,  I want one that is 800mm. Not 32" (812mm) that would be difficult enough but 800mm...….!!

I have a 34 and 35" template. Putting the nut at the first position of the 35" gives a 33.036" scale, or something like that. Similarly the first fret on the 34" gives approximately a 32" scale. 

Could I ask why you need exactly 800mm?

[Si600]

45 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

 

Damn, failed joke, please disregard

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Si600

[honza992]

16 minutes ago, Si600 said:

Damn, failed joke, please disregard

 

Actually I caught it before your delete and liked it! It's going to to be a PJ so it worked😁