33" Reverse P/J Jazz bass, blocks & binding (FINISHED PICS)

[honza992]

On 26/08/2018 at 11:33, Christine said:

Can I just add the reason I marked and routed the blocks before radiusing was because the Mother of Pearl isn't flexible so I couldn't get it marked out accurately or seat it if I routed a curved bottom following the radius of the board. With wood or Celluloid that isn't an issue

@Andyjr1515  Andy, having now done the routs for the blocks, I would strongly endorse what Christine says here.  Trying to score round a wobbling piece of MOP on a radiused board would be a nightmare...

[honza992]

A little bit of progress today. 

First up, binding.  On @Norris 's advice I took another look at the binding issue.  The binding I had been trying was ABS plastic and was a pain to bend - either it was straight or it was melting.  So I ordered some celluloid binding from Rothko & Frost and the difference is obvious.  Here's a test piece that I was easily able to bend using a hairdryer...

So bindings are back!  Hurray!

Here with the channel cut...

Celluloid rocks🎸😎

[honza992]

Next up, pickups.  

Guess what's in this beautiful box?

Pickups!  Yay😁

They're a matched '62 set from House of Tone. 

Now, I don't like to complain.  I chose them because I wanted to use British made artisan pickups.  I'm sure they're going to sound great.  But if you were a boutique pickup maker wouldn't you spend an hour or two making a template so a nice and neat pickup hole can be routed?  Pickups are all slightly different sizes.  And the generic templates are rubbish (and I've got plenty of them).  Clearly, you must have a drawing in CAD for the moulds to have been made......I don't know....maybe I just expect too much, but I'd happily pay a fiver for a template to save me the couple of hours it'll take to make my own.  Anyway I guess the important thing is how they sound.......

Edited September 6, 2018 by honza992

[honza992]

Mock-up time. 

I'm usng what (I think) is standard 60s pickup placement for the bridge - 8% of scale length away from the bridge.  The P will be what is standard for a precision, 16%.  

Tomorrow I'll get the templates done and start routing😁

[Johnny Wishbone]

Glad you got the binding issue sorted!  I do love a bound neck so for you to forego it would have been a great disappointment.  Just goes to show that the right materials (although sometimes more expensive) make a big difference.  Obviously I'm a little jealous you were able to use 'proper' block inlays rather than revert to stickers like my build.

Mock up looks splendid - nice work!

[honza992]

A bit more progress on the neck.  

Lots, and lots, and lots of tape....

Then on to sanding the radius....

Man I love rosewood.  It's just so beautiful to work with.  I know the CITES restrictions are for our own good, but every time I think about it I feel genuine sadness. 😢

[Andyjr1515]

23 minutes ago, honza992 said:

A bit more progress on the neck.  

Lots, and lots, and lots of tape....

Then on to sanding the radius....

Man I love rosewood.  It's just so beautiful to work with.  I know the CITES restrictions are for our own good, but every time I think about it I feel genuine sadness. 😢

That is SUCH neat work...      Beautiful!

[honza992]

Just now, Andyjr1515 said:

That is SUCH neat work...      Beautiful!

He he 🤣the neatness of the work (and the camera in this instance slightly exaggerates) is inversely proportional to the utter, complete, all encompassing, overpowering and overwhelming mess and chaos in the workshop 😧

I need to have more visitors, cos it's the only time I tidy!

[Norris]

That's looking very neat. Nice job!

[honza992]

Today I glued in the MOP blocks.   I used West Systems Epoxy which is great, but is a pain if you are only using small quantities, as I normally do.  So I've started using medicine syringes to meausre out very small quantities, taken direct from the can.  No waste, no scales, no hassle.  I use a children's Nurofen syringe for the Resin (half a syringe is 2.5ml) and a Vitabotics one (0.5ml).  It really works great, and a vast improvement over the pumps that West Systems sell that only measure out large quantities and leak all over the place.  And cost twenty quid...

I started off with some rosewood sanding dust (400 grit) but on my test piece I found that it was a bit light.  So I added some black powder, in this case Behlen's black furniture powder.  It's been sitting on a shelf for years and I've never used it.  No idea why I bought it, but this seemed like the ideal time to bring it out.  Anyway, I added maybe 20% black to end up with this...

Then I syringed on 2.5ml of resin onto the top of the sawdust, mixed it well then added 0.5ml or 205 hardener.  Mixed it well for a minute or two, then glued on the blocks...

Following @Christine's advice, I just held them in using finger pressure, no clamps or anything.  Tomorrow I'll sand, and judgement will follow😲

[honza992]

I'm a great one for never following my own advice.  Part of which is ALWAYS have all hardware to hand for doing layout before starting to cut.   Paticularly if you're doing non-standard scale lengths (which I normally do🙄) because that throws everything out.  So anyway, there was a delay on receiving the control plate, but it's only a control plate, right, no need to delay building....?  Wrong.  Goddam it.  It hadn't occured to me that a 33" scale and more ergonomic design means that everything is shifted by about 2 inches in comparison to a normal fender 34 inch.  So if the control plate is in the right position, nicely parallel with the side of the bass, it's completely mis-aligned with the pickups....

Or if I align it right with the pickups, it's completely misaligned with the side of the body.  And that's the sort of thing that would give me sleepless nights....

Ho hum.  I think the best solution (other than following my own advice) is to fill in the Precision pickup rout, and re-rout it a centimetre or two  nearer the nut.  That will just allow enough space for whole pickup to be underneath the pickguard.  Though obviously means the tone will be slightly affected. 

The other option that occured to me, was to reverse the two halves of the P.  Fender themselves do it with the Mark Hoppus jazz...

The thinking is that the bass strings are a big tighter sounding (being a bit close the bridge) and the top two strings are a bit warmer.  Or at least I think that's the idea.  Anyone tried out a reverse P?  Maybe I'll do that, edit the thread title, hope no one notices and pretend that was my intention all along😏. 

Any opinions?

[Jabba_the_gut]

Could you possibly get away with a Stingray type arrangement where the pickguard and control plate don't join? Would save having to re-route anything and I presume you were already going to have to get a custom pickguard. I made a control plate for a bass from a bit of brass and got it chrome plated and it looked really nice. I'll try to find the name of the platers I used and let you know.

Looking nice so far though - and the neck is lovely!!

Cheers

Jez

[Andyjr1515]

18 minutes ago, honza992 said:

I'm a great one for never following my own advice.  Part of which is ALWAYS have all hardware to hand for doing layout before starting to cut.   Paticularly if you're doing non-standard scale lengths (which I normally do🙄) because that throws everything out.  So anyway, there was a delay on receiving the control plate, but it's only a control plate, right, no need to delay building....?  Wrong.  Goddam it.  It hadn't occured to me that a 33" scale and more ergonomic design means that everything is shifted by about 2 inches in comparison to a normal fender 34 inch.  So if the control plate is in the right position, nicely parallel with the side of the bass, it's completely mis-aligned with the pickups....

Or if I align it right with the pickups, it's completely misaligned with the side of the body.  And that's the sort of thing that would give me sleepless nights....

Ho hum.  I think the best solution (other than following my own advice) is to fill in the Precision pickup rout, and re-rout it a centimetre or two  nearer the nut.  That will just allow enough space for whole pickup to be underneath the pickguard.  Though obviously means the tone will be slightly affected. 

The other option that occured to me, was to reverse the two halves of the P.  Fender themselves do it with the Mark Hoppus jazz...

The thinking is that the bass strings are a big tighter sounding (being a bit close the bridge) and the top two strings are a bit warmer.  Or at least I think that's the idea.  Anyone tried out a reverse P?  Maybe I'll do that, edit the thread title, hope no one notices and pretend that was my intention all along😏. 

Any opinions?

I've popped a reverse P on a modified Musicman Sterling in the past.  I'll try to find the details 

[honza992]

11 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

Could you possibly get away with a Stingray type arrangement where the pickguard and control plate don't join? Would save having to re-route anything and I presume you were already going to have to get a custom pickguard. I made a control plate for a bass from a bit of brass and got it chrome plated and it looked really nice. I'll try to find the name of the platers I used and let you know.

Looking nice so far though - and the neck is lovely!!

Cheers

Jez

Thanks Jez, I'd be really interested in the chrome plating idea.  Doing my own plate would be the ideal solution. 

How difficult is brass to cut and shape?

[Jabba_the_gut]

51 minutes ago, honza992 said:

Thanks Jez, I'd be really interested in the chrome plating idea.  Doing my own plate would be the ideal solution. 

How difficult is brass to cut and shape?

I used a piece of brass about 1mm thick and it was very easy to cut and shape. I only had simple tools for it such as a junior hacksaw and a couple of fine files ( one flat, one curved). Cut the shape, filed then finished off with wet and dry paper to remove any final marks. You'll have no problem.

I think is cost between £15 and £20 to get plated - more than standard plate off eBay but exactly the shaped needed.

I'm looking for the details for you.....

Cheers

Edited September 13, 2018 by Jabba_the_gut

[Jabba_the_gut]

Hi Honza,

Just found the receipt - I used a company called Doug Taylor Metal Finishing who did a nice job. The last plate I had done was £24 - which I think is fair enough for a one off small item. The plates I've made are brass 1.5mm thick. This is what I made - my reasons for making the plates was because I wanted something to follow the curve of the bass as it looks more pleasing, which sounds like where you might be going.

I drilled and countersunk the holes in the plates before plating (one plate was made for a piezo only bass with no controls, just a jack socket)

Cheers

Jez

Edited September 13, 2018 by Jabba_the_gut

[dadagoboi]

Fantastic build!

There's a DIY alternative to chrome plating.  Solid nickel silver stock.  Here's a control plate from aluminium prototype to polished piece. .040  thick. about $3 USD for material.

V

Tailpiece, bridge channel and pickup rings are also nickel silver. 

Pickup covers are also DIY.

Edited September 14, 2018 by dadagoboi

[SpondonBassed]

10 hours ago, honza992 said:

Thanks Jez, I'd be really interested in the chrome plating idea.  Doing my own plate would be the ideal solution. 

How difficult is brass to cut and shape?

Brass is a lovely metal to work with.  Just make sure not to distort the sheet by using tin snips to cut your outline.  I'd recommend using a similar set up to what you'd use for fretwork - the decorative sort.

It saws and files really well as it is a self lubricating metal.

Edited September 14, 2018 by SpondonBassed

[SpondonBassed]

4 hours ago, dadagoboi said:

There's a DIY alternative to chrome plating.  Solid nickel silver stock.  Here's a control plate from aluminium prototype to polished piece.

I like that.

I am not a fan of chrome plate.  When it fails it looks shoddy and raises sharp edges in some cases.  If I see it used on plastic parts, they get replaced in short order.

I'm assuming it isn't a pain in the 'arris to keep in "as new" condition.

[Norris]

I'd say maybe even go as far as polishing the brass before plating. As Jabba says, sanding marks will show through the chrome. Luckily the one that I didn't polish was an internal plate so no-one is any the wiser... oops - that's let the cat out of the bag!

[SpondonBassed]

13 minutes ago, Norris said:

I'd say maybe even go as far as polishing the brass before plating. As Jabba says, sanding marks will show through the chrome. Luckily the one that I didn't polish was an internal plate so no-one is any the wiser... oops - that's let the cat out of the bag!

A good plating company will do that for you.

[honza992]

I'm pretty sure the answer to this is...no, clearly not, what were you thinking you complete numpty....

....but is there any reason why brass can't be routed?

Make a template for the plate from 12mm mdf, sandwich 2mm brass stock with another piece of 12mm mdf then trim it on my router table with the speed as low as possible. 

Just, you know, a thought😋

Edited September 14, 2018 by honza992

[Norris]

7 minutes ago, honza992 said:

I'm pretty sure the answer to this is...no, clearly not, what were you thinking you complete numpty....

....but is there any reason why brass can't be routed?

Make a template for the plate from 12mm mdf, sandwich 2mm brass stock with another piece of 12mm mdf then trim it on my router table with the speed as low as possible. 

Just, you know, a thought😋

If you fitted a metal milling bit in your router, possibly. I don't know if I'd want to do it though!

[SpondonBassed]

13 minutes ago, honza992 said:

I'm pretty sure the answer to this is...no, clearly not, what were you thinking you complete numpty....

....but is there any reason why brass can't be routed?

Make a template for the plate from 12mm mdf, sandwich 2mm brass stock with another piece of 12mm mdf then trim it on my router table with the speed as low as possible. 

Just, you know, a thought😋

You mean milled rather than routed.

In theory it should be possible with an appropriate cutter in a router.  I've never seen it done however and I would recommend hand tools.

PS;  There are tables available to work out the correct cutting speed for a particular diameter of cutter if you do go that way.

Edited September 14, 2018 by SpondonBassed

[Si600]

No, clearly not, what were you thinking you complete numpty....

Metal is cut at a far lower speed than wood.  As an example, to put a hole in mild steel you're looking at a drill speed of around 100rpm to start with and adjust a bit if it's struggling.

I wouldn't try milling 2mm sheet in any case and certainly not with a router, but then I may like my fingers more than you 😛

Go with @SpondonBassed's suggestion and drill and file it.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Si600