Repairs to bad dents in poly finish?

[converse320]

I have just bought my first very good bass.  Its an Aria Pro Batwing SB700.  Well, pretty sure it is - please tell me if I'm wrong.   It is generally in great condition, meaning that its all original, with nothing missing apart from one strap button.  But, it has been pretty beaten up in a couple of areas of the body.  I've tried to photograph these with no great success, but what we have is a very thick gloss finish over ash (?think so), with some very bad dents and holes through the varnish.   Most of the rest of the bass is fine, but I'd like to do some small localised repairs to the worst dents and gouges.  Any advice on this?  I really don't want to have the whole thing refinished, as the areas are limited to the bottom of the bass, and the back - its almost as if it was being slammed into a badly built homemade stand with bits of brick of brick sticking out of it.  This is it below - I'll try to get some competent pics of the damage for advice.

This 

[yorks5stringer]

Just leave it as it is, it's called MOJO!

[Reggaebass]

I agree with Yorks   The bass looks good as it is.     There’s not really much you can do if the wood is dented under the lacquer apart from sanding  and filling the imperfections and  re lacquer.  You can buy another strap button they are pretty cheap.  Nice bass 👍

[converse320]

I get the MOJO thing.   I wouldn't want to lose it.    But would like to maybe moderate it just a little bit in places.   I was thinking that where the varnish had been smashed off it would probably be possible to steam the dents out a bit before touching up the holes.  But yes, its a great bass as it is.    Needs a damned good clean - bits of former owners all over it.  I found some serial number info and think its October 1980.

[Geek99]

Talk to @Grangur about the dents 

[NancyJohnson]

I filled a few big gouges in my old Aria with nail varnish.  These were quite deep and it worked exceptionally well.

[ezbass]

Another vote for nail varnish.

[ikay]

https://gluboost.com/products/

[Twincam]

Nail varnish is excellent for even fairly deep dents. If more invasive approaches are not wanted. 

Try steam little dents out there's many vids on YouTube.

Larger cuts and dents fill with nail varnish and if the body is poly you can use nail varnish remover to knock down and polish the nail varnish flat and smooth with practice, no sandpaper needed. It wont get quite as good a finish as some other methods but its non invasive and can look very good. Of course if the body is nitro etc don't use nail varnish remover anywhere near it. If unsure test on a small unseen area first. 

Cool bass btw

[converse320]

The nail varnish tip is very useful.  Turns out that much of the nastiness was actually nail varnish smeared badly over holes.  Comes off very easily with nail varnish remover, leaving the original surface untouched. 

I'll have a go at steaming later on today - I've done this a lot on oil finishes, but never with such a tough varnish.  Luckily, the varnish is pretty smashed up over the deeper dents, so I think I'll be able to get them wet and they'll come out.  Yes, cool bass, only cool bass I've got.

[Twincam]

I hate nail varnish just badly applied to hide things. 

What you can't steam out you can try reapply the varnish better, it might also stabilise any smashed lacquer that might flake if you get deeper dents out. 

[Norris]

I have a SB-1000 of similar vintage. Afaik the lacquer is nitrocellulouse (although a mate of mine stripped and refinished it) - it certainly is now on mine

Take care if steaming the dents out as it could damage the existing lacquer. Steaming forces moisture into the wood, causing the wood fibres to swell and hence reducing the dent. This could cause the lacquer to lift, or go cloudy. Steam is best on bare wood if possible 

[Manton Customs]

Generally if you haven't done a lot of this type of repair it tends to end up looking worse rather than better. But with some practice, it can work well. The video below (drop filling with superglue) is the best method if you're finish is not Nitro. If the finish on your bass is Nitro, then thick Nitro lacquer is the best material to drop fill with, as it will burn into the surrounding finish. If you want to find out if your finish is Nitro, test it with Acetone on an inconspicuous area (like inside the control cavity)...if the Acetone damages the finish, then it is Nitro.

The Gluboost product which @ikay posted above is essentially the same process (colour and superglue), they just give you the pigments to help match the colour. Also the glue and activator is supposedly a bit better, but I've never used it. I use the method below when I have to. The problem you may run into with superglue is witness lines around the repair as it does not burn into the surrounding finish, so some skilled blending is needed. Here's a before and after pic below of a repair I performed recently. This one came out invisible, but it wasn't missing any colour which made it a bit easier.

before-

after-

 

 

 

[converse320]

Thanks for all the replies folks, very helpful.  The finish is definitely not Nitro.   Its completely impervious to acetone, so all of the nail varnish overlays have been removed.  I've also tackled the worst dents with the steamer, which have come out pretty well.   I will give it another go tomorrow after its had time to sit a while. 

The bass seems to have been finished with a dark coloured poly over the side wings which complicates things a bit as I'd really like to colour match the varnish.  I'll post some pics when its all done.

[Grangur]

Hi @converse320,

Thanks for the mention @Geek99. Yes, getting dings out of natural wood seems to be something I've done quite a few times. I've done the same job on a few old Westones and such.

Forget all the nail-varnish stuff - that's for painted basses. What you need with this is to sand off the varnish/lacquer over the ding. Get the wood exposed. Then, get a sharp, thin blade and slice into the wood DOWN the grain - never across the grain. Then lay a wet cloth over the ding, Let the water soak into the grain. Then damp it again and get a clothes iron on the cloth over the dent and let it steam nicely. Be careful not to get scalded as the heat transfers down the cloth with the water.

Remove the cloth and  - hey presto - the ding is gone.

After this, to re-finish Westones I've used Ronseal brush on varnish and it's looked just like the old finish all over again. You need to avoid getting crud in the surface, so be clean and keep dust out of the area, but it's all pretty easy.

Cheers

Rich

[converse320]

Thanks Rich, I'll give it a go.  I've got all the dents out using the technique you suggest, though I didn't sand the varnish off, just pre damped the exposed gouges/dents/chips and steamed gently.   I'll try the ronseal - the original just looks like a dark brown poly varnish to me.

[AndyTravis]

Patience works with the nail varnish repairs - most people do it as a quick fix...I did this on a Washburn.

worked well - the bass now lives in the US.

I know your bass isn’t a colour finish - butbto those interested, you can achieve some great results.

[Geek99]

3 hours ago, Grangur said:

Hi @converse320,

Thanks for the mention @Geek99. Yes, getting dings out of natural wood seems to be something I've done quite a few times. I've done the same job on a few old Westones and such.

Forget all the nail-varnish stuff - that's for painted basses. What you need with this is to sand off the varnish/lacquer over the ding. Get the wood exposed. Then, get a sharp, thin blade and slice into the wood DOWN the grain - never across the grain. Then lay a wet cloth over the ding, Let the water soak into the grain. Then damp it again and get a clothes iron on the cloth over the dent and let it steam nicely. Be careful not to get scalded as the heat transfers down the cloth with the water.

Remove the cloth and  - hey presto - the ding is gone.

After this, to re-finish Westones I've used Ronseal brush on varnish and it's looked just like the old finish all over again. You need to avoid getting crud in the surface, so be clean and keep dust out of the area, but it's all pretty easy.

Cheers

Rich

You da man (on this particular topic)

[Twincam]

On 26/08/2018 at 18:46, Grangur said:

Hi @converse320,

Thanks for the mention @Geek99. Yes, getting dings out of natural wood seems to be something I've done quite a few times. I've done the same job on a few old Westones and such.

Forget all the nail-varnish stuff - that's for painted basses. What you need with this is to sand off the varnish/lacquer over the ding. Get the wood exposed. Then, get a sharp, thin blade and slice into the wood DOWN the grain - never across the grain. Then lay a wet cloth over the ding, Let the water soak into the grain. Then damp it again and get a clothes iron on the cloth over the dent and let it steam nicely. Be careful not to get scalded as the heat transfers down the cloth with the water.

Remove the cloth and  - hey presto - the ding is gone.

After this, to re-finish Westones I've used Ronseal brush on varnish and it's looked just like the old finish all over again. You need to avoid getting crud in the surface, so be clean and keep dust out of the area, but it's all pretty easy.

Cheers

Rich

While that's all good and works well. And I'm all up for doing things right.

I just worry that most people on the first time doing it that way will mess that up badly, to the point of needing someone to sort it out. Slicing into wood, refinishing etc that isn't a simple easy technique. 

[Grangur]

2 hours ago, Twincam said:

While that's all good and works well. And I'm all up for doing things right.

I just worry that most people on the first time doing it that way will mess that up badly, to the point of needing someone to sort it out. Slicing into wood, refinishing etc that isn't a simple easy technique. 

Have you done it?

Did it work for you?

I've always found it easy and it's worked every time unless the ding breaks up across the grain too much. 

[Twincam]

3 hours ago, Grangur said:

Have you done it?

Did it work for you?

I've always found it easy and it's worked every time unless the ding breaks up across the grain too much. 

I have used a similar technique on dents. I have also tried many techniques. The first few goes of anything you don't get totally right. And im generally ok with things like that, but i have a few years of working with instruments now and I also found the years of car body work I did useful. I just think the technique you describe while i have no issues with it, may for the first time someone attempted something like that, might be a little too much without a practice attempted on a old body. As the op said its his first good bass. So hence I suggested a non invasive and fairly reversible method if things should go wrong.

I also think that of superglue methods, If they go wrong for a relative novice then things can really go wrong! 

[Grangur]

Hmm.. Maybe,  @Twincam I've been lucky,  but I've never had a problem with it. 

You suggest trying on an old body. Not everyone has spare bodies hanging around. What you could do is practice on a spare piece of wood. You can make your own dents with a hammer.

My first "practice" was on a brand new solid oak dining table. But I didn't need to make my own dents.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Grangur

[converse320]

I spend some of my working life finishing wooden kitchen worktops, so I think I'll be OK.  The dents are much better after the steaming.  I have also bought some Ronseal varnish that looks like a close match, so all I need now is some time.