NBD - YOB Ibanez P

[BreadBin]

This beauty arrived today, a 1972 (possibly 73 but it's impossible to be sure, it's close enough for me) Ibanez P bass. Purchased from @Bassassin it's fabulous! Plays like stuff you spread on a crumpet, sounds great and apart from ashtrays is all original. I've taken off the pickup cover as it gets in the way but will probably leave the bridge cover on. 

I hadn't planned on playing it much as I have plenty of other choices but it is so nice to play that I may struggle with that!

[Bassassin]

Really delighted you appreciate it Brendon! I owned this bass for about 14 years & did a fair bit of head-scratching & research. It does help (if you can call it help) that I have a neurotic preoccupation with old Japanese basses & guitars.

So - a bit of info for anyone who's interested - although be aware this will get really boring really quickly...

This is an Ibanez 2366B - like all copy-era Ibanezes, these were built exclusively by Fujigen Gakki, the model first appearing in Ibanez catalogues in 1971 and remaining part of the brand's range until export of copy instruments ended, around 1978 or 9. Specifications changed over the years & this is part of how it's possible to put an approximate date on a pre-serial bass such as this. Here's the '71 catalogue - you'll notice that all the basses in the early literature are unbranded - that's because these were Fujigen factory shots - the same images (and often model numbers too) were used by other brands who sourced from Fujigen:

The most obvious difference is the rosewood fretboard, although  maple would also have been available at that time. Look a bit closer & there are other noticeable differences - the tuners & truss rod cover. Fujigen stopped using this style of hardware by'73 - the bass in this '73 brochure is the same as Breadbin's apart from the fretboard wood, and is the closest in the existing catalogue record that I can find:

What I do know from the occasional very early 2366B that turns up is that the first ones didn't have accurate P-style pickups - like many 70s MIJ basses, they were fitted with chrome  8-pole single-coils, like this:

Typically these have a date code on the back which makes age verification easy - unfortunately in my experience the accurate P & J style units introduced from '72/3 don't have these codes. So in order to date the bass we need to look at other details. A trait of many early 70s MIJ copies (not just basses or Fender copies) is that fretboard inlays often stopped at the 17th position - it's by no means general, but does apply to the Fujigen P copies. Over successive years the accuracy of all good quality MIJ copies got better, and by '74 the truncated position dots were broadly updated across the board.

Here's were the catalogue record becomes unrepresentative - existing examples of '73 & '74 blurbs all re-use the '72-era pic, and it's not until 1976 that we get an updated Ibby 2366B image, complete with full set of position dots & headstock logo:

What this bass will also have is a dateable serial number - these were introduced in late 1975. Anyway, in a rather longwinded way, that's how I'm sure the bass is '73 of possibly late '72 - it has no serial, proper P pickup,  dots to the 17th position, a small white trc and open-gear tuners. Well - I know what I'm banging on about... I think.

The only change I made to the bass while I had it was to re-wire it & replace pots & cap - the ones fitted when I got it weren't original, and were beyond salvage. I'm confident that the bass is otherwise all original - the ashtrays were fitted when I got it and are probably replacements - they are pretty much like new. However they do fit perfectly in the original screwholes and could have been removed & kept in the case from new. The bass was in great condition when I got it and gives an impression of being well looked-after rather than restored, so I'm unsure.

I think one of the reasons I like the old 70s copies is the way they're not trying to be replicas - this one's a good example of how the higher-end MIJ instruments were made in the early 70s, the body is mahogany butcher-block, with front & back birch veneers, and the neck's 3-part quarter-sawn maple, with the centre section turned through 90 degrees to help resist warping. Use of poorly-seasoned timbers in cheap early guitars led to the bad reputation that "Japcrap" had during the 70s, and factories like Fujigen, Kasuga & Matsumoku were early adopters of this technique to ensure their instruments were more durable.

Anyway - I'll shut up now, you've probably passed out trying to get through this. This is a ludicrously pretty bass and I'll post some pics in a bit - although they don't really do it justice.

 

[Grahambythesea]

Great looking bass. I remember seeing a video of Elvis which included rehearsals for a Las Vegas show when he introduced the band and even though the King said “on the Fender bass” the guy was in fact playing an Ibanez. I also remember trying one in Chappells, but was surprised how expensive it was! 

Didnt some of the production end up with Cimar on the headstock?

[BreadBin]

Wow, thanks @Bassassin - that's some amazing info! 

It's a properly nice bass, not just well made but also a credit to it's former keepers. 

[luckman67]

A very nice looking YOB Bass enjoy it 😎

[Bassassin]

2 hours ago, Grahambythesea said:

Great looking bass. I remember seeing a video of Elvis which included rehearsals for a Las Vegas show when he introduced the band and even though the King said “on the Fender bass” the guy was in fact playing an Ibanez. I also remember trying one in Chappells, but was surprised how expensive it was! 

Didnt some of the production end up with Cimar on the headstock?

I don't think so - Cimar was owned by the same trading company (Hoshino Gakki) which owns Ibanez, but all of the copy-era instruments appear to be from a different factory to Ibanez. I'd say it was broadly a lower-tier range - or at least there were "starter" level instruments in the line up, which there wasn't in the Ibby range. That said, there were top-end Cimars which were easily on a par with Ibanez - their Rick 4001 copy was a rebrand of the Chushin-built Shaftesburys which are pretty common in the UK - these are way more accurate than the early Ibanez versions and easily as good quality-wise.

The only exact crossover between Cimar & Ibanez that I'm aware of was the Cimar Stinger from 1980 - this was the exact same bass (and guitar) as the short-lived Mk 1 Ibanez Blazer - even the marketing materials were identical. Weird or what?

[Bassassin]

A couple of pics:

[BreadBin]

On 30/08/2018 at 20:16, luckman67 said:

A very nice looking YOB Bass enjoy it 😎

Well, YOB-ish to be fair! Thanks though