Is reading important

[mic mac moe]

I personally think that reading is paramount, maybe not for getting gigs in dad rock bands, but it certainly gives a deeper understanding of time, subdivision and maybe groove. I'm currently trying to brush up my reading and writing. Even bought a nice caligraphy pen!! My last few bands have been heavy on the covers, and me being as lazy as poss, tend to trust tab sites etc. How many times I've been wrong!! 😆 

[fretmeister]

It can be.

 

I play in a music trust orchestra and I have no idea what I'm going to get. before I joined (about 9 years ago) I didn't pay any attention to bass reading (sax was ok).

I started to learn and not only do I not feel as much of a fraud as I did I'm also enjoying it far more.

 

And of course actual notes give timing information whereas tab does not.

[dmccombe7]

No matter what band i play with i always write out the bass part. Generally don't write it out as an exact manuscript style but have the bars and notes placed exactly as they should on A4 line paper. I find reading or knowing the basics has always been helpful for me. 

I learn the song first by ear to get a feel for the melody and then either using TABS or manuscript where available and the fact i write it out myself note for note is also an aid to remembering the structure of the songs.

I have learned the song in my head and also have the memory of my hand written notes as a fall back and of course the short written notes as an absolute fall back if required on short notice gigs.

Dave

[JBP]

I'm so glad I learned to read, I just wish I had done it sooner. I did not place much importance on it until i went to Uni (late 20's), there I had  a great bass teacher who really helped and encouraged me to learn and I am so glad he did. Combining good reading with good theory, scales, arpeggios etc it all links together and opens up so many things to explore on any instrument. I would recommend it to anyone.

[mic mac moe]

Just now, JBP said:

I'm so glad I learned to read, I just wish I had done it sooner. I did not place much importance on it until i went to Uni (late 20's), there I had  a great bass teacher who really helped and encouraged me to learn and I am so glad he did. Combining good reading with good theory, scales, arpeggios etc it all links together and opens up so many things to explore on any instrument. I would recommend it to anyone.

Brilliant, mate. It certainly does tie it all together. Plus I find written music is a beautiful thing, especially hand written 

Mike

[JBP]

Hand written music can be a beautiful thing, my wife's piano teacher collects copies of original manuscripts from Bach, Handle etc and they  are amazing things to look at. But it can swing the other way though,  years ago I played in a production of Hairspray and the MD hand wrote all the parts... non of us could read them his writing was terrible. We all went out and bought original copies to play from and noted on the changes that he had made, then we had to hide them behind his originals so we wouldn't upset him.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Yes and No.

Being literate in standard notation is essential for certain situations, such as reading gigs, academic music study, arrangement and scoring.

Being literate in standard notation gives access to a huge amount of written music.

Being literate in standard notation will absolutely not grant automatic benefits towards timekeeping or groove (I've played with lots of amateur classical musicians who have decades of reading experience but whose ability to maintain pulse or lock with other musicians is pretty terrible, and let's be honest, not all drummers have good time/groove even though all their learning materials use standard notation)

Being literate in standard notation will not grant you the ability to write good songs, improvise, memorise parts, hustle gigs, improve your aural skills, give you the practical nouse to survive life on the road, equip you for negotiation with promoters/venue owners/agents/labels, give you any sort of personality on stage, make you easy to be around etc etc etc

Musicianship is a multifaceted skillset, and what's most important varies from one musical situation to another - I would argue that good time and ear training are the skills that cross to every practical situation without exception.

That being said learning to read has enriched my musical experience and opened new oportunities, so it is definately worthwhile, but it is important to remember that you can still bring a great deal of value as a musician without that ability, so it is a mistake to assume that you are automatically a lesser musician if you can't read standard notation.

[ambient]

22 minutes ago, JBP said:

Hand written music can be a beautiful thing, my wife's piano teacher collects copies of original manuscripts from Bach, Handle etc and they  are amazing things to look at. But it can swing the other way though,  years ago I played in a production of Hairspray and the MD hand wrote all the parts... non of us could read them his writing was terrible. We all went out and bought original copies to play from and noted on the changes that he had made, then we had to hide them behind his originals so we wouldn't upset him.

My notation is extremely untidy, I wish it wasn’t, but so is my handwriting.

[ambient]

I learned to read music whilst studying violin at school. I then moved to playing classical guitar, then onto bass. It didn’t occur to me that you could play music without being able to read, I expected to join a band and be given music to read from.

Sight-reading is an immensely useful skill to have, but it all depends on what your aspirations and intentions are whether you need to spend the time needed to acquire that skill. I’ve done theatre pit work, played on cruise ships and done many reading/dep gigs, that I wouldn’t have done if I hadn’t been able to read.

[mic mac moe]

7 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Yes and No.

Being literate in standard notation is essential for certain situations, such as reading gigs, academic music study, arrangement and scoring.

Being literate in standard notation gives access to a huge amount of written music.

Being literate in standard notation will absolutely not grant automatic benefits towards timekeeping or groove (I've played with lots of amateur classical musicians who have decades of reading experience but whose ability to maintain pulse or lock with other musicians is pretty terrible, and let's be honest, not all drummers have good time/groove even though all their learning materials use standard notation)

Being literate in standard notation will not grant you the ability to write good songs, improvise, memorise parts, hustle gigs, improve your aural skills, give you the practical nouse to survive life on the road, equip you for negotiation with promoters/venue owners/agents/labels, give you any sort of personality on stage, make you easy to be around etc etc etc

Musicianship is a multifaceted skillset, and what's most important varies from one musical situation to another - I would argue that good time and ear training are the skills that cross to every practical situation without exception.

That being said learning to read has enriched my musical experience and opened new oportunities, so it is definately worthwhile, but it is important to remember that you can still bring a great deal of value as a musician without that ability, so it is a mistake to assume that you are automatically a lesser musician if you can't read standard notation.

My remark about time etc has been in my experience. Drummers that I know very well that don't read, actually struggle to count. Fills that run over etc. I have found that understanding the written note, and subdivisions, gives a deeper understanding. Even to 32nd note hip hop swing. When it's written, it can be explained easier, and therefore understood. Trying to explain a concept like that to someone not literate is like plaiting fog!! 😆 

[mic mac moe]

Just now, ambient said:

I learned to read music whilst studying violin at school. I then moved to playing classical guitar, then onto bass. It didn’t occur to me that you could play music without being able to read, I expected to join a band and be given music to read from.

Sight-reading is an immensely useful skill to have, but it all depends on what your aspirations and intentions are whether you need to spend the time needed to acquire that skill. I’ve done theatre pit work, played on cruise ships and done many reading/dep gigs, that I wouldn’t have done if I hadn’t been able to read.

I've found it useful even for lessons in magazines. I wouldn't be able to do Steve gadds 50 ways to leave your lover groove if I couldn't read

[ambient]

5 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

I've found it useful even for lessons in magazines. I wouldn't be able to do Steve gadds 50 ways to leave your lover groove if I couldn't read

I find I can look at a piece of music, notated bass line or any part really, and straight away I know so much about the piece as a whole, even if I don’t know the song or work. You can tell the style, the key obviously, the mood, there’s so much information there.

[ambient]

Much of what I’ve been doing over the last 3 or 4 years can’t easily be notated using standard musical notation. At university we had to do a final production project which required us to write up to 30 minutes of songs or music, but it had to be fully notated, every instrument. I found it particularly interesting trying to adapt standard notation so that what I was playing could be written down. I’m now composing using sound rather than pitched material. I use graphic notation to sketch out ideas. 

[SubsonicSimpleton]

18 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

My remark about time etc has been in my experience. Drummers that I know very well that don't read, actually struggle to count. Fills that run over etc. I have found that understanding the written note, and subdivisions, gives a deeper understanding. Even to 32nd note hip hop swing. When it's written, it can be explained easier, and therefore understood. Trying to explain a concept like that to someone not literate is like plaiting fog!! 😆 

Try transcribing some Bonham grooves, and then see how they sound on midi playback, maybe also try giving them to a good reading drummer who has never listened to Bonham (or don't say what the transcriptions are of) - will in either case you get something that sounds close, or do you need to actually hear the recording of Bonzo doing his thing to understand the subleties of what makes it special?

[mic mac moe]

1 hour ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Try transcribing some Bonham grooves, and then see how they sound on midi playback, maybe also try giving them to a good reading drummer who has never listened to Bonham (or don't say what the transcriptions are of) - will in either case you get something that sounds close, or do you need to actually hear the recording of Bonzo doing his thing to understand the subleties of what makes it special?

Surely that's interpretation? That's why 50 people will play a score 50 different ways. 

Like you said earlier, music is a collection or set of skills rather than one thing. Victor Wootton once did a thing at a seminar, where he had the class divide all of music into just 10 parts-style, sound, interpretation, note choice etc. The upshot was that if you are hung up on just one of these ten things, you have 9 tenths still to do. 

    My point about reading is that it gives a clearer, deeper understanding of music. It's like learning to drive and only doi g automatic because it's easier. I get that it's not for everyone but I find it a big help. 

     As for your Bonham analogy, you are dead right. Feed it into a computer as a midi file and it'll be rubbish. But the way Bonham played is what made him Bonham, irrespective of written parts. Bonham was Bonham and that's why there's no Led Zeppelin anymore. Even his son can't faithfully play his parts

[JBP]

The analogy that I like to use when I am  teaching  is that music is a language that everyone understands. When you play you are speaking that language, but you can learn more if you learn to read it as well. 

[mic mac moe]

Just now, JBP said:

The analogy that I like to use when I am  teaching  is that music is a language that everyone understands. When you play you are speaking that language, but you can learn more if you learn to read it as well. 

That's brilliant! I've met a few grown adults that can't read or write English. I find that quite alarming. Not necessarily a drawback for them but it makes you think how much richer their lives could be if they could read a book, or a bass mag, the local paper or a set of instructions 

[lowdown]

Over the last forty years, a large % of my music income has been from sight reading in professional pit & stage shows, arranging and work for music engraving/copying companies.

I haven't used pen and manuscript for years (Feather Quill, ink and gaslight even longer), It has mostly been using Sibelius or Finale (and now Dorico) on Computer.

Reading (and theory) for me, has been worth it's weight in money. So yes, definitely important from my point of view. 👍

Edited August 30, 2018 by lowdown

[Delberthot]

It depends entirely on what you want to achieve and where you want to be. I taught myself to read when I was 17 because I was offered a gig in a big band and told the band leader that I could read.

That lasted 18 months when I decided that I wanted to play in bands with people my own age (these were the original guys playing in big bands since the 40s)

I haven't needed to read anything since and never look at the dots when I am learning something new. I've always played by ear. I don't know anything about scales, modes, theory or anything else like that.

So for me the answer would be yes for those 18 months that I really enjoyed playing some great big band numbers but it's a skill that I've never needed to use again.

I don't believe that reading during those 18 months when I was 17 has changed my playing and I don't feel that I have missed out by not being able to read as I gradually forgot where everything was.

A drummer said to me a few years ago that you are only a proper musician if you can read music at which point I said that Phil Collins and Pino Palladino better give it up then being as neither can.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Delberthot

[mikel]

If the musicians you want to play with require a reader then yes, it is. If not then the none readers are good to go with everything else bass playing has to offer. Horses for courses.

 

I have played in originals bands, covers, jazz and funk bands over the last 50 years and I cant read.

Edited August 30, 2018 by mikel

[ambient]

For me at least, reading on a gig suits my personality. I just sit and enter my own world where I’m totally happy, I concentrate on the charts and play. I’m fully aware of what’s going on around me, but I’m totally absorbed in reproducing the written part. I take a delight in it. It’s the same if I’m just improvising from a lead sheet in a jazz gig.

[dmccombe7]

I play mostly rock bands and i'm usually the only one that reads or uses music unless we have a keys player. Keys players generally read music and it works far better for me.

I've played in a very few bands where guitarists didn't even know the chords they was playing. Needless to say i didn't stay long with them. Too disorganised for me. 

Dave

Edited August 31, 2018 by dmccombe7

[thepurpleblob]

I spent 30 years playing (percussion) in orchestras, theatre bands, brass bands and such, where good sight-reading skills were vital. I now play bass in a pub band and I hardly ever read at all. 

However, I'm really glad I *can*. It's very useful every so often. Not for a minute do I think it doesn't matter to me. It's been an important part of my musical "journey".

Edited August 31, 2018 by thepurpleblob

[dmccombe7]

I just think its a useful tool for learning any song. I'm all for making life easier and using whatever tools are available when learning songs.

I've seen me using my ear, bass tab and manuscripts when its a tricky song to learn so anything that's available is a useful tool.

Dave 

[Leonard Smalls]

I learned reading when I was young playing piano.

However, since I started playing bass 35 years ago I've never had to read; all the bands I've played in have either improvised or each player has worked out their own parts from a jam. But I'm glad i know a bit of theory - I've taught other band members the rudiments of modal playing which has definitely made the music we play more interesting.

But reading itself has been largely irrelevant to me as I've never really played any covers...