Is reading important

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

You need to read all of my post...

Yes, you need a good eye AND a good ear. Preferably two of both.

[Paul S]

4 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

Ooh the celeb card

No need to be funny about it, fella.  Just pointing out something you may or may not have known that the guy you are pointing out to that a lack of reading and theory sets you back has some decent gigs under his belt.  Probably higher profile than most of us. 

[mic mac moe]

Just now, SubsonicSimpleton said:

 

So he wanted you to make a gap 27 32nd notes long and you couldn't count it or feel it consistently?

Two things

1-i can count odd times. But it made the song sound crap, as it needed to be a standard 4/4 gap. 

2-he never played it the same way twice

Underlying point here is that if you bother to learn a little bit of how music works, it makes life in a group way easier

[mic mac moe]

Just now, Paul S said:

No need to be funny about it, fella.  Just pointing out something you may or may not have known that the guy you are pointing out to that a lack of reading and theory sets you back has some decent gigs under his belt.  Probably higher profile than most of us. 

I never once said that this fella couldn't read or understand theory

[mic mac moe]

2 minutes ago, discreet said:

Yes, you need a good eye AND a good ear. Preferably two of both.

Quite

[wateroftyne]

Just now, mic mac moe said:

Two things

1-i can count odd times. But it made the song sound crap, as it needed to be a standard 4/4 gap. 

2-he never played it the same way twice

Underlying point here is that if you bother to learn a little bit of how music works, it makes life in a group way easier

...in your experience. I've (been lucky to have) played with people who just play, and don't need to get embroiled in the theory, or dot reading.

Some of them undoubtedly do that with other projects, some don't. And they all do fine.

 

 

[mic mac moe]

I originally set this ball rolling to see people's opinions. It's getting out of hand here with people ferociously defending their own opinions. My take, for what it's worth is that reading is important. Not necessarily the correct opinion but it's mine. You are all entitled to yours

[discreet]

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

I've (been lucky to have) played with people who just play, and don't need to get embroiled in the theory, or dot reading.

Me too. Not that I have anything against reading, or learning to do it. I'm a lazy bugger and in any case it's never been necessary. No-one in four decades has ever stuck a bit of music in front of me and said, 'play that'. Just don't revolve in those circles. Don't do the kind of work that needs it. Pino Palladino doesn't read, and he's doing fine. That's my excuse.

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

I originally set this ball rolling to see people's opinions. It's getting out of hand here with people ferociously defending their own opinions. My take, for what it's worth is that reading is important. Not necessarily the correct opinion but it's mine. You are all entitled to yours

If you ask for opinions on here, you'll get them, big time! 

Reading isn't important for me, but it obviously is for you. That's fine with me. Nothing ferocious about it. There's no 'correct' opinion. Horses for courses.

[wateroftyne]

2 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

I originally set this ball rolling to see people's opinions. It's getting out of hand here with people ferociously defending their own opinions. My take, for what it's worth is that reading is important. Not necessarily the correct opinion but it's mine. You are all entitled to yours

I've been quite openly saying people have different approaches to mine. It's you that seems to struggle to comprehend that others can do it their own way.

[mic mac moe]

Just now, wateroftyne said:

I've been quite openly saying people have different approaches to mine. It's you that seems to struggle to comprehend that others can do it their own way.

Yup

[ambient]

Threads like this often revert to disagreement 😁.

Like I said at the beginning of the thread, it’s a useful skill to have, it’s also a quite separate skill from theoretical knowledge or the ability to busk or improvise. It’s usefulness depends entirely on what your personal ambitions and playing requirements are though. As has been said, players like Pino don’t read, but they have a sound and style that gets them gigs, other players like Dave Swift do read well and are booked because they have that ability.

If you’re playing original music, or are a member of a function band that has a set of songs that you’ve learned, then it’s something that’s not really necessary.

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, ambient said:

Threads like this often revert to disagreement 😁.

Like I said at the beginning of the thread, it’s a useful skill to have, it’s also a quite separate skill from theoretical knowledge or the ability to busk or improvise. It’s usefulness depends entirely on what your personal ambitions and playing requirements are though. As has been said, players like Pino don’t read, but they have a sound and style that gets them gigs, other players like Dave Swift do read well and are booked because they have that ability.

If you’re playing original music, or are a member of a function band that has a set of songs that you’ve learned, then it’s something that’s not really necessary.

That summarises it quite nicely 

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, mic mac moe said:

Two things

1-i can count odd times. But it made the song sound crap, as it needed to be a standard 4/4 gap. 

2-he never played it the same way twice

Underlying point here is that if you bother to learn a little bit of how music works, it makes life in a group way easier

Ah, that's the tell-tale clue..! An unusual time-stretch, or hard-to count (feel..?) beat or pause, I can live with . There are many examples of such in classical music, and folk singers often use time in this fashion. But it has to be consistent or, as you say, it all falls apart. If the bloke can't understand that, or doesn't even notice that it's all gone South, there's not much can be done. I doubt that writing it out, in any notation, would help. In my long-distant youth, one of our friends would play guitar, as we all did, but with no sense of timing, melody or structure. He was surprised that he wasn't invited to join any of the 'buddy bands' that sprung up spontaneously all around. It's true that his lyrics were painfully , too, which didn't help. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Dad3353

[M@23]

I'd say it's important in certain contexts. As is being able to slap, shift what you're playing up or down a step on the fly, play with a pick, contribute with BVs... And countless other skills. If you want to play jazz gigs it's obviously a bigger deal than rock gigs. 

[MacDaddy]

3 hours ago, ambient said:

Threads like this often revert to disagreement 😁.

Like I said at the beginning of the thread, it’s a useful skill to have, it’s also a quite separate skill from theoretical knowledge or the ability to busk or improvise. It’s usefulness depends entirely on what your personal ambitions and playing requirements are though. As has been said, players like Pino don’t read, but they have a sound and style that gets them gigs, other players like Dave Swift do read well and are booked because they have that ability.

If you’re playing original music, or are a member of a function band that has a set of songs that you’ve learned, then it’s something that’s not really necessary.

Could have quoted other posts, but yours will do 😜

Not knowing theory/being able to read, will stop you getting a gig where it is needed. 

But knowing theory/being able to read, will not stop you getting a gig where it is not needed. 

[ambient]

37 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

Could have quoted other posts, but yours will do 😜

Not knowing theory/being able to read, will stop you getting a gig where it is needed. 

But knowing theory/being able to read, will not stop you getting a gig where it is not needed. 

Totally. 

[mic mac moe]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

Ah, that's the tell-tale clue..! An unusual time-stretch, or hard-to count (feel..?) beat or pause, I can live with . There are many examples of such in classical music, and folk singers often use time in this fashion. But it has to be consistent or, as you say, it all falls apart. If the bloke can't understand that, or doesn't even notice that it's all gone South, there's not much can be done. I doubt that writing it out, in any notation, would help. In my long-distant youth, one of our friends would play guitar, as we all did, but with no sense of timing, melody or structure. He was surprised that he wasn't invited to join any of the 'buddy bands' that sprung up spontaneously all around. It's true that his lyrics were painfully , too, which didn't help. 

Nice one! 

[ambient]

Written musical notation is essentially a means of recording and communicating a musical idea. Sometimes it just won’t work though.

This is my score for a concert at University of Birmingham next week. I have excellent sight-reading ability, but standard notation doesn’t work in the context of the work I’m performing.

Edited September 1, 2018 by ambient

[lowdown]

10 hours ago, ambient said:

Written musical notation is essentially a means of recording and communicating a musical idea. Sometimes it just won’t work though.

This is my score for a concert at University of Birmingham next week. I have excellent sight-reading ability, but standard notation doesn’t work in the context of the work I’m performing.

 

Is it Silent Night ? Or indeed, just a blank canvas to play what you want?

 

 

 

An attachment might be helpful for us all to view.

Edited September 1, 2018 by lowdown

[Leonard Smalls]

I remember going to a jazz improv workshop a while ago...

The organiser produced sheets of paper "just use these and play" she said.

They were just multi-coloured Rorsach type ink blots. Needless to say we all played all of the notes possible, or none of the notes at all, all at the same time. I used lots of distortion and wah...

[mic mac moe]

5 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I remember going to a jazz improv workshop a while ago...

The organiser produced sheets of paper "just use these and play" she said.

They were just multi-coloured Rorsach type ink blots. Needless to say we all played all of the notes possible, or none of the notes at all, all at the same time. I used lots of distortion and wah...

 

[Leonard Smalls]

You don't want to hear what I'd play to that... Wold make Brotzmann or Zorn's Japanese Noisecore sound like a lullaby!

[Dad3353]

No, Lenny, I'm not going to dare you. I was just posting to agree with you, for once: we don't want to hear what you'd play to that  ..! 
(Although I think we often have, in past posts   ..!)

[Leonard Smalls]

30 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

we don't want to hear what you'd play to that  ..!

Luckily for you, my laptop is currently being hosed down and cleaned of all the unpleasantness it produced with absolutely no input from me...

Perhaps when it's been re-motherboarded and returned to me it'll start to produce music which is a beautiful amalgam of Thomas Arne, Thomas Tallis and Thomas The Tank Engine especially for you!

😎