5 string EUBs

[Paul S]

Oh learned ones I seek opinions and expertise. 

Since moving on to 5 string basses it seems logical for me to swap my 4 string Stagg EUB for a 5 string one.  It is for just occasional use at the moment although my little band keep threatening to do a lot more 'acoustic' gigs which would see any EUB I owned getting a lot more use.  No bowing, just piz.

I see 2 main options:

• Convert the Stagg to a 5 string - there is a thread on here somewhere about it.  here, in fact  I would have to buy a whole new set of strings as well, not just the tuner/nut/bridge change costs, as I currently have black nylon Innovations and they don't do a low B.  There does come a point when I would think - it is only a Stagg and, after spending perhaps £200 on it it is still only going to be a Stagg.
• Get one of the NS Design EUB models, of which there seems a confusing array.  For my purposes the WAV5 link here would probably do but what are the differences between this and the more expensive models?  I 'think' the omni is just a strange shaped 34" scale fretless - bit like a posh Dean Pace?

An Eminence 5 string would be luvverly but in reality a bit too rich for me, I think. 

Converting the Stagg would be the cheapest option but is it bending it out of shape too much?    I'd really value some real life experiences of the various NS Design models, if anyone has played a few. 

At the moment I am finding it hard to decide so any thoughts are welcome.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Double bass is not electric bass guitar, the only real similarity is that they are tuned the same, so your third option is to treat them as separate instruments and don't try to unify your approach. A four string acoustic upright is a much more logical progression if you are currently only playing EUB because it's big, clever, impresses the ladies and sounds better. If you ever need to borrow/hire/upgrade the biggest segment of what is already a somewhat niche market is fours.

Bit of foam down the bridge and roll off the tone control on an EBG works well enough if you really need the low notes on the B string and your band members idea of 'acoustic performance' is plugging their electro acoustics into amps and then playing loud anyway.

 

[Paul S]

Your advice started off nicely with the first sentence, which actually makes a lot of sense.  But then you just spoiled it by being rude for two paragraphs.  What a shame.

[TPJ]

I play both 4 and 5 string slab and have 4 string double basses and a 5 string EUB (BSX Allegro). I don't really use the 5th string that much on the EUB. Like yourself, thought I might need it. It's a big string and hard to handle at times. When used it does offer a cool sound though. Up to you if you think you'll use it. For re-sale, you'll do better with 4 string but if you find an instrument with 5 strings you bond with, you most likely will keep it anyway :). Maybe the WAV is the way forward. I'd recommend going to play one to see if it's a workable solution for you, not everyone gets on with the stand thingy. If you do settle on a 5 string, make sure you put good strings on...it really makes a difference to the tone and playability. 

[6feet7]

I converted to 5 string electric bass a few years back, so obviously sold my 4 string 3/4 upright bass and got a 5 string 3/4 upright. Managed to get a set of black nylons strings (that cost a fortune) and hardly ever touch the low B. Too damn difficult to play.

[Paul S]

Thank you both. Interesting that you both report the same issue with the B string. The stand isn't an issue as I modded the Stagg to play on a tripod a la NS Design but it makes sense to see if I can try a 5 string before either carving up the Stagg or shelling out.

[6feet7]

45 minutes ago, Paul S said:

Thank you both. Interesting that you both report the same issue with the B string. The stand isn't an issue as I modded the Stagg to play on a tripod a la NS Design but it makes sense to see if I can try a 5 string before either carving up the Stagg or shelling out.

If you're ever in East Sussex pop in for a cuppa and a try of a 5 string upright

 

[petebassist]

Hi, I'd definitely give the NS a try first, as they feel different to the Stagg. I did try a 4 string NXT four string at the London Bass show last year, but the action was set way low and with the stock strings, and I couldn't really get an idea of how it would play with a proper pizz technique and double bass strings. If you're used to an acoustic-like action on your Stagg you might need to max out the action to get the feel of the NS. I've never played a five string of any type though.

As to models, I believe the WAV is manufactured in the Far East or Mexico and just comes with a strap as standard. With the NXT you get a tripod stand and upgraded components, and with CR they're made in the Czech Republic and higher spec I believe (whatever it is that bumps up the price). 

They don't seem to hold their value that well, so second hand prices are good.

Good luck!

[Owen]

I play 5 string DB, EUB, Plank and Uke. I like that low B. I have no trouble incorporating it. I am not dismissing anyone else's experience, just throwing in the concept that they are out there and completely usable. I even had an Innovation Rockabilly low B made. That was an expensive job. I did not keep it as it re-defined the concept of "dull thud". I think that modding the Stagg is just chucking money away (I have a lot of experience of doing that), and having the strings that close together would be a nightmare.

I would suggest that you put the call out (as you kind of have) for a 5 string EUB local to you and go and mess with it.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

17 hours ago, Paul S said:

Your advice started off nicely with the first sentence, which actually makes a lot of sense.  But then you just spoiled it by being rude for two paragraphs.  What a shame.

What are you getting upset about?

Everyone seems to have a different concept of what is important in terms of visual stage presentation, volume levels, acceptable sound quality with regard to actually sounding like a double bass, storage/portage convenience and how much money they have to spend.

I've been to acoustic performances at typical folk club volume levels where an EBG has been used alongside acoustic guitars and there was a distinct absence of pitchfork waving mob demanding that the bass player be strung up from the nearest lampost for committing such an unforgivable heresy.

If you spend a lot of money on a five string EUB or converting your stagg, and don't like the end result you'll likely lose out financially - so make sure that if you go this route you won't regret it later.

[Paul S]

13 hours ago, 6feet7 said:

If you're ever in East Sussex pop in for a cuppa and a try of a 5 string upright

 

Thank you, I may well take you up on that. 

12 hours ago, petebassist said:

Hi, I'd definitely give the NS a try first, as they feel different to the Stagg. I did try a 4 string NXT four string at the London Bass show last year, but the action was set way low and with the stock strings, and I couldn't really get an idea of how it would play with a proper pizz technique and double bass strings. If you're used to an acoustic-like action on your Stagg you might need to max out the action to get the feel of the NS. I've never played a five string of any type though.

As to models, I believe the WAV is manufactured in the Far East or Mexico and just comes with a strap as standard. With the NXT you get a tripod stand and upgraded components, and with CR they're made in the Czech Republic and higher spec I believe (whatever it is that bumps up the price). 

They don't seem to hold their value that well, so second hand prices are good.

Good luck!

Thanks. 

11 hours ago, owen said:

I play 5 string DB, EUB, Plank and Uke. I like that low B. I have no trouble incorporating it. I am not dismissing anyone else's experience, just throwing in the concept that they are out there and completely usable. I even had an Innovation Rockabilly low B made. That was an expensive job. I did not keep it as it re-defined the concept of "dull thud". I think that modding the Stagg is just chucking money away (I have a lot of experience of doing that), and having the strings that close together would be a nightmare.

I would suggest that you put the call out (as you kind of have) for a 5 string EUB local to you and go and mess with it.

Thanks. I have been convinced to ditch the 5 string Stagg idea and will look more closely at the NS Design ones. 

6 hours ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

What are you getting upset about?

Everyone seems to have a different concept of what is important in terms of visual stage presentation, volume levels, acceptable sound quality with regard to actually sounding like a double bass, storage/portage convenience and how much money they have to spend.

I've been to acoustic performances at typical folk club volume levels where an EBG has been used alongside acoustic guitars and there was a distinct absence of pitchfork waving mob demanding that the bass player be strung up from the nearest lampost for committing such an unforgivable heresy.

If you spend a lot of money on a five string EUB or converting your stagg, and don't like the end result you'll likely lose out financially - so make sure that if you go this route you won't regret it later.

I am sorry - having reread your post I seem to have misinterpreted what you wrote. Apologies. And, yes, I will think carefully before splashing out. It might be, when all said and done, that 4 strings will suffice for the amount of use it gets. 

Thanks again all for your input. 

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Your a gent Paul, apology graciously accepted,  I thought that maybe I owed you an apology for being too blunt as I've had several bad sleep nights in a row, and things can go a bit sideways when I'm sleep deprived.

[TheGreek]

Hey Paul

I'm not sure whether you were at the Herts Bash when we had Valentin from ForteVio. He custom builds EUBs - very impressive too.

Check his site: www.fortevio.com 

 

He's based in Watford so not a million miles from you.

Edited September 7, 2018 by TheGreek

[Paul S]

Thanks Mick.  Not a million miles geographically but I suspect financially it would be  

[Silvia Bluejay]

I play an NS NXT 5 and love the low B, even if I tend to mostly use the low C# and low D in the music I play.

Admittedly, I also like the D'Addario strings that the bass came with, so I have no idea what it'd sound/feel like with 'proper' double bass strings. It currently doesn't sound - or indeed feel - like a double bass. However, it's definitely not meant to do that. It's meant to be practical, convenient and effortless to play.  The action on mine is very low, and the bass practically plays itself, to the extent that it makes me feel like I'm cheating! (While the Eminence is another, far harder, kettle of fish altogether, and it only has four strings!)

You probably don't quite *need* a 5-string upright, but once you've got one, you'll wonder how you did without it.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Silvia Bluejay

[Paul S]

Thank you Silvia.  'Need' is a word that rarely enters my vocabulary  so I get what you are saying completely....

 

[Lfalex v1.1]

I really like my NS 5 CR.

The Low B is well-integrated sound-wise; it sounds like it's meant to be there.

I kept finding fretless to be too nasal sounding for my taste, but the EUB has a deeper, more mellow voice.

The HazLab preamp in the NS CR is among the best I've used in an electric instrument. The EQ set-points are perfect.

 

[Paul S]

Thanks for this.

By way of an update, I managed to acquire a Dean Pace 5 and spent some time with this before using it for an acoustic gig.  Now I realise that a Dean Pace is not remotely double bass-like but more akin to a fretless bass mounted upright on a stick - it isn't my intention to have a 'double bass experience' as such, more about the sound, so this was not important.  And I have discovered that, played like this, I find the string spacing too narrow and the neck too flat for my rather agricultural piz/fretting technique.  Also having the extra 5 string I found muting more of an issue but this was most likely also connected to the narrow string spacing.  Why playing at a 90 degree angle from usual should make such a difference I am not sure. 

I find playing the 4 string Stagg a much easier and more pleasant proposition and found that I can get around the lack of low B string quite easily so, for now, I'll stick with the Stagg.  To take this forward I think I will try to have a go on both 4 string and 5 string NS Designs and see if they are worth the upgrade.  That is pretty much the position I was in at the start before I got the Dean, which proved to be no more than an interesting but, in the end, pointless diversion   

Dean Pace 5 anyone?  It will be in the classifieds soon.