Elwray Basses - First Bolt-on 4 string

[Guest Marcoelwray]

@eude @Henrythe8

A 5 it will be. So be it.

Broadneck.

Not enough space I've got for 6 strings to be made.

Greetings, Yoda.

[eude]

1 hour ago, Marcoelwray said:

@eude @Henrythe8

A 5 it will be. So be it.

Broadneck.

Not enough space I've got for 6 strings to be made.

Greetings, Yoda.

Fair enough my friend, but don't forget, 6 string basses are one string cooler than 5

Eude

[Guest Marcoelwray]

3 hours ago, eude said:

Fair enough my friend, but don't forget, 6 string basses are one string cooler than 5

Eude

Yep but in that case I will have not enough nut width for a 6... But it'll be fair enough for a broadneck 5. I never build a 6 so it's in my next projects! And as I want to try a headless system, maybe the next Amani will be a 6, headless.... But fretted or not, that's the question

Edited March 5, 2019 by Marcoelwray

[eude]

38 minutes ago, Marcoelwray said:

Yep but in that case I will have not enough nut width for a 6... But it'll be fair enough for a broadneck 5. I never build a 6 so it's in my next projects! And as I want to try a headless system, maybe the next Amani will be a 6, headless.... But fretted or not, that's the question

Ah, well if there's not enough wood, it's obviously not possible.
Are you going by the usual Warwick 'Broadneck" specs, which would mean 47mm at the nut?
All my 6ers have 54mm width nuts, but a little narrower isn't a bad thing, but I reckon 47mm would be too narrow...

Also, headless 6ers rule, I've got two

Eude

[Guest Marcoelwray]

15 minutes ago, eude said:

Ah, well if there's not enough wood, it's obviously not possible.
Are you going by the usual Warwick 'Broadneck" specs, which would mean 47mm at the nut?
All my 6ers have 54mm width nuts, but a little narrower isn't a bad thing, but I reckon 47mm would be too narrow...

Also, headless 6ers rule, I've got two

Eude

Actually, I might be able to offend people, but I don't really care about actual measurements. IF, for a standard 5 strings narrow I usually made a "Ibanez" spacing (Ibanez 16.5, me 17, and nut 45, because I play for 15 years on a SR I feel confortable), For my friend's Infinga 5 I've made a 18mm SS, and for the two next I'm making some experiments....

So (on the two next) the "normal" Amani 5 will be 18mm at bridge and 47mm at nut (are you sure it's Boradneck size? Seems pretty normal to me, but I might be wrong), and the broadneck, as it's mostly a re-composed neck that I didn't made any plans, it will be around 54mm at nut (I've seen 60mm for some Warwick 6 strings, that's why I found that was not enough, but you make me wondering....) and probably a 19-20-21mm at bridge (I hope 20)

BTW, Excepet for the truss rod, these instruments will be fully wooden "hardwarized" ... I have some African Blackwood (my god it's dense) for the nuts & bridges.

[Guest Marcoelwray]

After checking, I was far from reality ... I did see 60mm nuts, for sure.

But you're right about dimensions so the larger neck still could be a 6er.

[eude]

Just now, Marcoelwray said:

After checking, I was far from reality ... I did see 60mm nuts, for sure.

But you're right about dimensions so the larger neck still could be a 6er.

I think the "broad" bit of the Broadneck basses was more determined by the string spacing at the bridge, 19mm or maybe even 20mm?
I played a Thumb Bass 5er for years and I really like 16.5mm spacing on my 6s, just feels like home. I go for 18mm on 4s and 5s though...

Eude

[Henrythe8]

Broadneck basses, As I would refer it, have a 48mm nut, a bridge string spacing of 20mm, and a width at 12th fret 72mm and 24th fret 85mm. It must be the Warwick Standard more or less, I can check this at home. 

Then you have the "Fender" large neck with a 51mm nut , but a 19mm string spacing. so it's a 69mm at 12th fret. It's what I had on the Squier Jazz Deluxe V Active. Pretty comfy, too. 

The Ibanez BTB/EDA is 47mm nut, 19mm string spacing, and IIRC 70mm at the 12th fret. 

I tried a lot of 5ers, but the Broadneck of the Dolphin 5 sold me. I mainly play 5ers now, but anything below 19mm is not playable for me. 

 

 

[Guest Marcoelwray]

@Henrythe8

Still hesitating. I'll see after corrections how much wood left. I want to buy a six because I didn't play 6er. 

Doing a 5 broadneck could tempt you to try it , mmmh? 

Thinking, thinking....

[Guest Marcoelwray]

Anyway, I cut the two bodies (finally got my blades), Afzelia and Oak. Looks not really psychedelic but I like the sober side of this. We'll see after carving...

[eude]

3 minutes ago, Marcoelwray said:

Anyway, I cut the two bodies (finally got my blades), Afzelia and Oak. Looks not really psychedelic but I like the sober side of this. We'll see after carving...

Oak on the right?
I've always wondered how Oak would perform in bass construction...

[Guest Marcoelwray]

@eude yes on the right. It's just a top of 8mm, but I'll plan to make a bass in oak (at least a full half -20mm- in oak). I think it has been made already and it's great sounding, but too much associated to furnitures.

[itu]

Sadowsky has now a bass that is constructed from two hardwoods and soft spruce in between. Would be interesting to see, how much spruce was left, as they tend to produce light instruments.

A side note: are you putting some kind of serial numbers to your instruments? After a while you have a production and these first models may disappear because of no written history.

Edited March 6, 2019 by itu
triyng to wriet

[Guest Marcoelwray]

@itu nous I don't. I thought about it, but I never did it... As all my Basses except one remains at home, I know all my Basses.. but I should put a serial somewhere. I owned an Esh without serial and I found that it's disappointing.

Anyway, here's a video of Ben from Crimson about Oak:

https://youtu.be/qz5asTuDGqM

I thought it was more appropriate to answer by a video:

https://youtu.be/Nkn7fCU7pXA

Just my opinion. I tend to go against general opinion on Oak. But that's just my thoughts.

[Andyjr1515]

5 hours ago, Marcoelwray said:

@itu nous I don't. I thought about it, but I never did it... As all my Basses except one remains at home, I know all my Basses.. but I should put a serial somewhere. I owned an Esh without serial and I found that it's disappointing.

Anyway, here's a video of Ben from Crimson about Oak:

https://youtu.be/qz5asTuDGqM

I thought it was more appropriate to answer by a video:

https://youtu.be/Nkn7fCU7pXA

Just my opinion. I tend to go against general opinion on Oak. But that's just my thoughts.

Just watched your video, @Marcoelwray and quite agree with you.  I find it a pleasant wood to work with and adds a bit of gravitas to the instrument with its rigidity.

One of my lightest...correction, my LIGHTEST lightweight electric guitar has an Oak back. And it sounds great.

I think Ben of Crimson does some good stuff, but he does sometimes tend towards stating personal opinions as established facts.

[Jimothey]

Just watched both videos and I agree with @Marcoelwray and @Andyjr1515 Oak is a lovely wood and it isn't as heavy as people think I've used it in one of my builds and it's fine the bass isn't overly heavy (but saying that the body is very thin) 

I couldn't get over Ben's comment about Oak being ugly!! Oak can look stunning like the piece in your video with lovely figuring, also it can be understated and look very classy

So if oaks ugly then WTF is this all about??............ 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Jimothey

[Guest Marcoelwray]

matter of tastes I guess…. But I'm deeply convinced that in people's mind, Oak is just good for furnitures. Like I said, I will do (after thoughts) a FULL oak body with probably maple neck with Something else… Just to try "the sound of Oak"

I'm not a huge fan of coloured-epoxyzed-burly-curly-buckeye-poo, but if people like that, ...

And after all, which wood is ugly? 

[Grangur]

Hello, I have designed and built oak furniture. Oak might be fine for an 8mm top, but if you had a body 45mm ish deep, it would be very heavy for playing a gig. It is a very dense hardwood. This is why it's good for furniture,  because this makes it good for joints; through its strength even when cut thin.

[Jimothey]

I agree that most people associate Oak with furniture but there is just as much furniture made out of Mahogany yet that's OK to build a body out of? 

Also granted Oak is heavier than Ash, Alder, Mahogany etc but it's lighter than Bubinga, Wenge and Ovangkol etc which are widely used for guitar making so I think that people's perception needs to change and use more widely available/sustainable woods otherwise more woods will be added to the endangered list??

[Guest Marcoelwray]

There is Wengé basses... The answer will follow this year... We'll see for a 40mm (more or less) body made in oak ...

[Andyjr1515]

Here's the oak back of the 6-string electric I did.  

Personally, I reckon this gives, for example, Ash more than a run for its money in terms of figuring.  Total playing weight 5 1/4 lbs and acoustically rings like a bell  

[Grangur]

4 hours ago, Jimothey said:

I agree that most people associate Oak with furniture but there is just as much furniture made out of Mahogany yet that's OK to build a body out of? 

Also granted Oak is heavier than Ash, Alder, Mahogany etc but it's lighter than Bubinga, Wenge and Ovangkol etc which are widely used for guitar making so I think that people's perception needs to change and use more widely available/sustainable woods otherwise more woods will be added to the endangered list??

Mahogany furniture usually refers to the mahogany being used for panels - wardrobes, sideboards etc. Where a frame is included, such as a coffee table, the mahogany is usually the top. The frame will then usually be made from beech. Beech is another very dense wood. So dense that working with it will blunt your tools. Right now I've been turning a bowl on the lathe, from beech. I have to keep sharpening my tools... I digress. 

When you buy and oak table and chairs, you'll often find the table is oak, but the chairs will be made of beech. This is because the chairs, if made from oak would be stupidly heavy.

Also, mahogany wood is getting less common in furniture now. This is because in the 70s, when mahogany was in fashion, we were stripping rain forests to feed the furniture business.  Sorry... back to basses.   

[Manton Customs]

https://www.wood-database.com/european-beech/

 

https://www.wood-database.com/english-oak/

 

Check out the averaged dried weights @Grangurcompare it to some other woods like Ash and Maple too. You might be surprised.

[Grangur]

@Manton Customs Yes, I am a little surprised. The oak and beech we used (I'm no longer in the business) were from eastern Europe. I don't know what difference that makes?

So, why is is that when I've picked up a 20mm thick oak shelf, smaller than a bass body, it's been significantly more heavy than any bass body I've ever held?
The reference table is well and good, but in actual real-life practice I'm not mistaken on this.

[SpondonBassed]

39 minutes ago, Grangur said:

I don't know what difference that makes?

I saw a documentary that looked at Olde English timber framed buildings.

I forget the details but depending on the latitude of the forest the oak would grow more or less quickly.  This has a direct bearing on the density of the wood.  You could tell, by looking at the relative width of the rings showing the length of the local season for rapid growth, roughly what part of the world the oak had come from.  Wealthy builders imported oak partially for this reason.