MM USA SUB. Anyone know what's under the paint?

[leschirons]

After stripping my SR5, I'm looking at my USA SUB. I know that if I strip it, it'll de-value it as  they were only ever painted as far as I am aware however, if it's a keeper, does that really matter?

Anyone ever looked beneath the surface of one of these?

[Cato]

Assuming your're after the 'natural' look, if you do end up being disappointed with the wood underneath, have a look back through the build diary threads.

@Andyjr1515 has done some very impressive work with veneers.

This is just the first example I could find.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Cato

[leschirons]

21 minutes ago, Cato said:

Assuming your're after the 'natural' look, if you do end up being disappointed with the wood underneath, have a look back through the build diary threads.

@Andyjr1515 has done some very impressive work with veneers.

This is just the first example I could find.

 

Thanks for that, really interesting.

[Owen]

One of the long term posters stripped a 5 string one. It looked great. 

[Beedster]

19 minutes ago, owen said:

One of the long term posters stripped a 5 string one. It looked great. 

That was me, but bloody hell it took some work, the neck especially. All things considered I wouldn’t recommend it, they really went to work on producing the most robust finishes in the SUBs!

[leschirons]

7 minutes ago, Beedster said:

That was me, but bloody hell it took some work, the neck especially. All things considered I wouldn’t recommend it, they really went to work on producing the most robust finishes in the SUBs!

Don't suppose you still have a photo do you? I'd love to see how it came out.

The time and work doesn't really bother me. I'm happy for it to be a long term project.

[drTStingray]

2 hours ago, leschirons said:

After stripping my SR5, I'm looking at my USA SUB. I know that if I strip it, it'll de-value it as  they were only ever painted as far as I am aware however, if it's a keeper, does that really matter?

Anyone ever looked beneath the surface of one of these?

Various joined pieces of poplar - often of wildly different colour. Somewhere deep in the EBMM site there is a photo of piles of body blanks for the Subs. Will be around 2003 I guess.

Probably not a pretty sight under the paint. 

In comparison an SR5 in trans colour will have more attempt to match wood grain. Quite a lot of the solid colours in the 90s were also over poplar. Poplar doesn't have much grain (my early 90s trans blueburst certainly doesn't).  

Edited September 6, 2018 by drTStingray

[Beedster]

15 hours ago, leschirons said:

Don't suppose you still have a photo do you? I'd love to see how it came out.

The time and work doesn't really bother me. I'm happy for it to be a long term project.

Hey mate, I don't (although I'll have a look on my old laptop), but as per the post above, it really wasn't attractive wood. I used stain and Warwick wax after stripping, and whilst it looked a little odd, it at least looked better than the extremely bland grain that sat underneath it. IIRC the wood was also pretty soft, and once I got through the lacquer it was really easy to find that even gentle sanding took too much of the wood off. I think that the lacquer is so heavy with SUBs that removing it (body and neck) might noticeably affect tone. Just my opinion  

[leschirons]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

Hey mate, I don't (although I'll have a look on my old laptop), but as per the post above, it really wasn't attractive wood. I used stain and Warwick wax after stripping, and whilst it looked a little odd, it at least looked better than the extremely bland grain that sat underneath it. IIRC the wood was also pretty soft, and once I got through the lacquer it was really easy to find that even gentle sanding took too much of the wood off. I think that the lacquer is so heavy with SUBs that removing it (body and neck) might noticeably affect tone. Just my opinion  

Appreciate your opinion. Especially as you've actually done it. Thanks.

Seems there's more negative issues to this than positive. Best I leave it how it is😂

Edited September 7, 2018 by leschirons
Left a word out

[Beedster]

You can get some half-decent unfinished bodies on eBay that would do the job, not often that a pure 'ray shape pops up (might be risky in copyright terms for the builder0, but quite a few that are pretty close are out there? As above, stripping yours and using veneer might work, as might respraying it a less 'challenging' colour (SUBs seemed to come in a rather odd range of colours IIRC).

 

[Twincam]

Stripped the rear of the neck on mine. Thought it was very easy. Maple of course but not a select cut at all. 

From pics I've seen stripping the body and having it natural is not the best idea although results vary. Best either paint over the existing finish, and if keeping the textured effect will need little prep work and little finishing work. Or flatten or strip and paint a solid colour 

Its also debatable if these may go up in value somewhat. People seem to like these and they have a small following. I was going to fully refinish mine and do the headstock with mm stingray decal. However just in case they become some sort of collectable I will hold off. 

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, leschirons said:

Appreciate your opinion. Especially as you've actually done it. Thanks.

Seems there's more negative issues to this than positive. Best I leave it how it is😂

 

Natural it may not look nice, but a solid finish could be cool.

I saw someone over at TalkBass strip his SUB, round the edges adding contours etc, and finishing it in some sparkle orange... the colour is not my type, but it looked like a good idea in another nicer colour, plus it shaved off some weight too. I love how mine sounds but it's pretty heavy.

[Mykesbass]

23 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Various joined pieces of poplar - often of wildly different colour. Somewhere deep in the EBMM site there is a photo of piles of body blanks for the Subs. Will be around 2003 I guess.

Probably not a pretty sight under the paint. 

In comparison an SR5 in trans colour will have more attempt to match wood grain. Quite a lot of the solid colours in the 90s were also over poplar. Poplar doesn't have much grain (my early 90s trans blueburst certainly doesn't).  

Didn't they use basswood for these? I know they did for some of the high end, solid finish guitars like the Luke. Or is basswood another name for poplar?

[drTStingray]

22 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Didn't they use basswood for these? I know they did for some of the high end, solid finish guitars like the Luke. Or is basswood another name for poplar?

Nope - and basswood is used on the Bongo - the US Subs were poplar - the bodies in the pic (which I've not been able to find) had multiple sections of wood ranging from very dark brown to lighter brown - so a harlequin effect - my US Sub 5 must have had a collision with a Hammond or drummer's metal accoutrements in a band van before I had it - I think the answer is don't do it unless you're going to refinish it in a solid colour - the wood on this is dark brown -  I think the textured paint (and checker plate pickguard) are cool and different from my other Rays to be nice in its own right. 

[steantval]

Just done a spur of the moment purchase tonight, just ordered one in Walnut with a Rosewood neck from Andertons, free gig bag thrown in for a delivered price of £320.11.

Edited September 7, 2018 by steantval

[Twincam]

28 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Didn't they use basswood for these? I know they did for some of the high end, solid finish guitars like the Luke. Or is basswood another name for poplar?

No there definitely poplar it's a fairly well know spec. 

Basswood is used on the bongos I believe. 

[Twincam]

1 minute ago, steantval said:

Just done a spur of the moment purchase tonight, just ordered one in Walnut with a Rosewood neck from Andertons.

We are talking about the a different bass. In this case the USA made Ernie ball Musicman sub basses. Which were made with USA electrics from the sr classic and in the same factory.

What you bought was a Sterling sub ray4 which is cheaper far east made bass. Which don't share any parts from the usa stingrays. There a decent budget bass although the hot pickup issue put me off them. 

Musicman has a stupid naming system! There's usa sterling basses. And there is the company Sterling (far eastern made). There different things altogether.

 

 

 

[drTStingray]

3 minutes ago, Twincam said:

There a decent budget bass although the hot pickup issue put me off them. 

 

 

 

These now have a different pre amp and no longer have that issue - apparently like the Ray 24, the pre amp has some elements of similarity with/have some derivation from the Old Smoothie design (though that one has the period correct epoxy covering). 

They sound and play pretty well for an entry level bass.  

[steantval]

41 minutes ago, Twincam said:

We are talking about the a different bass. In this case the USA made Ernie ball Musicman sub basses. Which were made with USA electrics from the sr classic and in the same factory.

What you bought was a Sterling sub ray4 which is cheaper far east made bass. Which don't share any parts from the usa stingrays. There a decent budget bass although the hot pickup issue put me off them. 

Musicman has a stupid naming system! There's usa sterling basses. And there is the company Sterling (far eastern made). There different things altogether.

 

 

 

My main bass is a MM Stingray, just purchased the Sub as a back up bass.

[Twincam]

5 minutes ago, steantval said:

My main bass is a MM Stingray, just purchased the Sub as a back up bass.

Cool. I'm a stingray fan.

[Twincam]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

These now have a different pre amp and no longer have that issue - apparently like the Ray 24, the pre amp has some elements of similarity with/have some derivation from the Old Smoothie design (though that one has the period correct epoxy covering). 

They sound and play pretty well for an entry level bass.  

There ok (ray4). Never tried the ray24 but there supposed to be much better like the ray34 is. Was thinking of getting the ray24 myself at one point as prefer a thinner neck. They have much improved hardware etc from the ray 4's very budget hardware. 

Shops are still selling the older hot pickup basses though. I tried one very recently. And you don't know if you will get the new pre one if you buy new online. So for the people thinking of getting one best maybe to hold off till the new headstock design ones are in stock, unless you can go try one in store. 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Twincam

[drTStingray]

Aren't the hot pick up/pre amp ones made in China whereas the newer ones are made in Indonesia - the newer ones have been about for quite a while? You are right, the headstock logos are a giveaway (without the big SUB logo are the newer ones). I think SBMM published a fix for the hot ones anyway?

[Twincam]

1 minute ago, drTStingray said:

Aren't the hot pick up/pre amp ones made in China whereas the newer ones are made in Indonesia - the newer ones have been about for quite a while? You are right, the headstock logos are a giveaway (without the big SUB logo are the newer ones). I think SBMM published a fix for the hot ones anyway?

Im not sure but if ordering online who knows which one you will get. Be lucky if online they update pics too or know which is which. As said the one I tried was not the updated version and it was brand new, in a very well known store and online store. 

The published fix I've read helps but doesn't fully resolve the issue it's more a work around. There's something wrong when you buy a bass and have to fix it right away, they new about the issue for years. For the non knowledgeable up to date buyer I think it was a poor show. Especially when the ray34 is a decent quality instrument.

[Twincam]

On 06/09/2018 at 20:38, leschirons said:

After stripping my SR5, I'm looking at my USA SUB. I know that if I strip it, it'll de-value it as  they were only ever painted as far as I am aware however, if it's a keeper, does that really matter?

Anyone ever looked beneath the surface of one of these?

Here is exactly what could be under there. These are the poplar sub bodies from the usa factory, taken in 2004. Note the different coloured wood one at the top. That's not one half stained or anything that's literally two very different shades together. The rest in the pile are not great either.

This was one of the cost saving measures along with the textured finish that didn't need much finishing work (if any), and the non mm stamped bridge and the use of ping non branded tuners which are the company that make the mm stamped grover tuners. Unfortunately the cost cutting measures didn't work and they had to stop production of that bass. 

 

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, Twincam said:

Here is exactly what could be under there. These are the poplar sub bodies from the usa factory, taken in 2004. Note the different coloured wood one at the top. That's not one half stained or anything that's literally two very different shades together. The rest in the pile are not great either.

This was one of the cost saving measures along with the textured finish that didn't need much finishing work (if any), and the non mm stamped bridge and the use of ping non branded tuners which are the company that make the mm stamped grover tuners. Unfortunately the cost cutting measures didn't work and they had to stop production of that bass. 

 

I'd be happy to lacquer over that just for a laugh.

I've seen paint schemes that look a LOT worse.