Starting a new band

[Stylon Pilson]

13 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

Getting folk to be available to practice is all down to work commitments (not me, I don't have a proper job) but you're right about the booking gigs side of it..... Dreading that

I think there's two tricks to making the booking of gigs easier:

1. Have some sort of calendar that lists the dates that people are definitely not available. You can do this either as a shared calendar that everyone can update themselves, or send it round once a month and ask people to confirm that everything is correct.
2. Be able to get a fast confirmation from people. When a date presents itself, you want to be able to send out a "everyone still okay for this date?" and get a reply from everyone within an hour. So you need (a) a method of communication that works for everyone, and (b) an agreement from everyone that this is the expectation, and anyone who takes 3 days to get round to replying is a custardweasel of the greatest proportions.

S.P.

[HengistPod]

We started a new band at the beginning of the year. After finding a drummer and singer, we all got together and decided Wednesdays were the most likely day we could all make an evening rehearsal.

Did that, and a few Sunday afternoons, to knock a set together and were out gigging after about 10 weeks. To make it easier, we used a lot of stuff me and the guitarist had played in our last band but, 4 months down the line, a lot of that has been replaced with new songs.

Wednesday still stands as rehearsal night, but if we miss one here and there we're not that fussed. We have a go-to set now, and rehearsals are mostly used for getting new tunes together (and reminding the drummer how we agreed this or that song is going to end ...  ).

[petebassist]

49 minutes ago, Stylon Pilson said:

I think there's two tricks to making the booking of gigs easier:

1. Have some sort of calendar that lists the dates that people are definitely not available. You can do this either as a shared calendar that everyone can update themselves, or send it round once a month and ask people to confirm that everything is correct.
2. Be able to get a fast confirmation from people. When a date presents itself, you want to be able to send out a "everyone still okay for this date?" and get a reply from everyone within an hour. So you need (a) a method of communication that works for everyone, and (b) an agreement from everyone that this is the expectation, and anyone who takes 3 days to get round to replying is a custardweasel of the greatest proportions.

This.

I couldn't organize anything without a shared band Google calendar.

As to responsiveness, I can't be bothered with people I have to chase for commitments.  

Good luck with finding some like-minded band mates.

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, thebassist said:

Here we are mate - it's definitely not to everyone's tastes!

https://minuspilots.bandcamp.com/album/seeking-the-spheres

I quite like that altho i could see it being quite limiting. What you have is really good and easy to listen to but i'm into atmospheric / prog styles.

Well done mate.

Dave

[Newfoundfreedom]

When you said just bass and drums I was expecting something more along the lines of Royal Blood. 

Not really my cup of tea as it were, but it sounds really good nonetheless. A very full sound for just the two of you. I'd be well happy to be putting something like that out. 

[thebassist]

I deinfitely get it’s not everyone’s thing. This is a short clip a guy recorded on his iPhone at a show we did in June. It’s really quite hard for us to explain what we do live to be honest.

http://listen.minuspilots.com/

[mic mac moe]

1 hour ago, HengistPod said:

We started a new band at the beginning of the year. After finding a drummer and singer, we all got together and decided Wednesdays were the most likely day we could all make an evening rehearsal.

Did that, and a few Sunday afternoons, to knock a set together and were out gigging after about 10 weeks. To make it easier, we used a lot of stuff me and the guitarist had played in our last band but, 4 months down the line, a lot of that has been replaced with new songs.

Wednesday still stands as rehearsal night, but if we miss one here and there we're not that fussed. We have a go-to set now, and rehearsals are mostly used for getting new tunes together (and reminding the drummer how we agreed this or that song is going to end ...  ).

Thats exactly as it should be, hence my point, how hard does it need to be. These days, you find people are stuck in shift work, care jobs on constantly moving rota's. Or the drummer works as a DJ in a hotel and you've to try and get these two guys in the same room at the same time. 

[mic mac moe]

2 hours ago, Stylon Pilson said:

I think there's two tricks to making the booking of gigs easier:

1. Have some sort of calendar that lists the dates that people are definitely not available. You can do this either as a shared calendar that everyone can update themselves, or send it round once a month and ask people to confirm that everything is correct.
2. Be able to get a fast confirmation from people. When a date presents itself, you want to be able to send out a "everyone still okay for this date?" and get a reply from everyone within an hour. So you need (a) a method of communication that works for everyone, and (b) an agreement from everyone that this is the expectation, and anyone who takes 3 days to get round to replying is a custardweasel of the greatest proportions.

S.P.

Thanks, and I absolutely agree. Communication is king in this case. As for custard weasel, that is going in my vocabulary, post haste!! 

[Bluewine]

10 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

When working four hour sets is the norm, it has got to be about the money.  That's serious graft work.

Exactly, hauling lights, sound, set up and tear down and the grueling effort and challenge of playing and trying to effectively manage 4 hours worth of material has to be about money.

I will leave my home today at 4:15pm and will get home at 2:00am.

And as I always say, we'll have fun but we don't do it for fun, we do it for money.

Blue

[mic mac moe]

2 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Exactly, hauling lights, sound, set up and tear down and the grueling effort and challenge of playing and trying to effectively manage 4 hours worth of material has to be about money.

I will leave my home today at 4:15pm and will get home at 2:00am.

And as I always say, we'll have fun but we don't do it for fun, we do it for money.

Blue

Thats a great point. The amount of background work involved, let alone the learning of instruments and the night spent rehearsing. I feel we usually get tge s&£% end of the stick as musicians when it comes to the earnings. Especially here in the UK when it's pub brewerys that dictate how much is in the budget. I played a gig a couple of years ago, and the landlord said to us"its ace when you guys play here. I never take less than £3500" he was paying us £275 between 5 of us

[Bluewine]

38 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

Thats exactly as it should be, hence my point, how hard does it need to be. These days, you find people are stuck in shift work, care jobs on constantly moving rota's. Or the drummer works as a DJ in a hotel and you've to try and get these two guys in the same room at the same time. 

We ask a lot of questions before hiring anyone. We have to be convinced a candidate understands the commitment of a heavy gigging schedule and has experience in a busy gigging band.

No matter how good a musician is it wouldn't matter to us. We would never hire the guy that's a great player but has little to no experience. We'd hire the marginal guy that has a lot of gigging experience.

Blue

2 hours ago, petebassist said:

 

As to responsiveness, I can't be bothered with people I have to chase for commitments.  

 

Exactly, no busy band has time for guys whose life circumstance prevents commitment.

Blue

[dmccombe7]

57 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

We ask a lot of questions before hiring anyone. We have to be convinced a candidate understands the commitment of a heavy gigging schedule and has experience in a busy gigging band.

No matter how good a musician is it wouldn't matter to us. We would never hire the guy that's a great player but has little to no experience. We'd hire the marginal guy that has a lot of gigging experience.

Blue

Exactly, no busy band has time for guys whose life circumstance prevents commitment.

Blue

I took your advice few yrs ago Blue when after passing the audition i found out the band were simply asking too much and altho i could have managed as retired early i was in it for enjoyment rather than money. The band were out to make money but they also enjoyed it. They were playing typically 1-2 gigs every weekend either as a T.Rex tribute act or a 70's pop covers band. I liked the idea of it but after learning the first set of 34 70's cover songs in 3 weeks with no rehearsals and doing first few gigs they then told me we had a gig in 10 days and it would be all T.Rex songs and wanted me to learn a further 24 songs in the next 10 days. At the time i mentioned it on here and you suggested if i wasn't in it for the money then maybe i should step down and let someone else in that needs the money. I agreed with what you were saying plus it was a bit too much to learn a second set that soon after the first so all was good. They managed to get someone else who has been with them for past few yrs. I've been asked to dep with them on occasions where bass player can't manage and i'm still great friends with them all including their new bass player.

Dave

Edited September 7, 2018 by dmccombe7

[Bluewine]

2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

I took your advice few yrs ago Blue when after passing the audition i found out the band were simply asking too much and altho i could have managed as retired early i was in it for enjoyment rather than money. The band were out to make money but they also enjoyed it. They were playing typically 1-2 gigs every weekend either as a T.Rex tribute act or a 70's pop covers band. I liked the idea of it but after learning the first set of 34 70's cover songs in 3 weeks with no rehearsals and doing first few gigs they then told me we had a gig in 10 days and it would be all T.Rex songs and wanted me to learn a further 24 songs in the next 10 days. At the time i mentioned it on here and you suggested if i wasn't in it for the money then maybe i should step down and let someone else in that needs the money. I agreed with what you were saying plus it was a bit too much to learn a second set that soon after the first so all was good. They managed to get someone else who has been with them for past few yrs. I've been asked to dep with them on occasions where bass player can't manage and i'm still great friends with them all including their new bass player.

Dave

I hope I'm not derailing this interesting thread, but yeah busy gigging bands are work.

Agreed, for those not in it for the money, playing 2-3 gigs a week could be frustrating.

I never thought I'd say this about playing but I leave for work tonight at 4:15  and punch out at 12:30am. Keep in mind we will all still have fun tonight and make money.

I think there are some that feel if your making money it must not be fun.

I'm sure some of us have been in bands where there was a ton of work but no money.

IMO starting any kind of band is difficult.

Blue

Edited September 7, 2018 by Bluewine

[PatrickJ]

I'm on the verge of quitting from a band because it is becoming so difficult to organzise rehearsal time.

It's now a struggle to find even a single date in a month - I'm usually quite flexible but I feel I'm having to make endless comprises to fit into the schedules of others. 

It's a casual band, I get that but it doesn't feel like it's any sort of priority for some of the others, I've suggested numerous times that we pick a regular rehearsal slot and reorganise if we need to but no one other than the band leader and me want to commit to that so it's endless rounds of doodles to find something.

I should have quit after our last gig in July - i guess I'm avoiding a difficult conversation.

However, I have set up a second band who are much more committed; Mondays work for us all and so every other Monday is our rehearsal sechedule .

Good luck finding a group of people, I know it's not easy especially when your in the 30s/40s.

[Bluewine]

I think my last comment was a bunch of " fancy talk".

I don't want to go to work tonight, I want to stay home and watch the tele.

Blue

Edited September 7, 2018 by Bluewine

[Monkey Steve]

3 hours ago, Bluewine said:

 

Exactly, no busy band has time for guys whose life circumstance prevents commitment.

Blue

Exactly this - if you don’t have enough free time to commit to a band properly then you simply shouldn’t be in a band

drives me mad when people say they are completely committed to being in the band but don’t actually seem to want to give up any of their precious time to be in the band

Edited September 7, 2018 by Monkey Steve

[Les]

Reading these sort of threads with interest it does seem to be that the guys who haven't gigged for a while seem to to have the most difficulty. Maybe being out the loop and 

rusty networks take their toll.

Les

[mic mac moe]

22 minutes ago, Les said:

Reading these sort of threads with interest it does seem to be that the guys who haven't gigged for a while seem to to have the most difficulty. Maybe being out the loop and 

rusty networks take their toll.

Les

It's the pool that you have to recruit from that's the problem. I've personally been gigging constantly since early 80's. It's my main income, although I wouldn't use the word professional. It frustrates me that the folk you come across aren't of the same level of interest. I'm now 50 and the group of peers are just dwindling hobbyists or mid life crisis types. Or so it seems. My mate is a former cruise ship guitarist who has ended up being a care assistant on a shift rota. So sad

[T-Bay]

Was here two years ago, less than two months from start to first gig (I had been playing less than 3 months at that point). It helped to have seriously experienced guys to be playing with.

[Les]

16 minutes ago, mic mac moe said:

It's the pool that you have to recruit from that's the problem.

Yeah I get that. I've just put a band together to do Fridays only. Fairly incestuous as it's the guitarist from my main band, and former drummer with our current drummers husband on vox.  I suppose it took a few months just talking about it but once it was decided it was 3 rehearsals and go. I think using payers I knew and were still active made it easier.

[dmccombe7]

My current band all play in other bands (i don't) but it was discussed from the outset that there would only be about one gig a month, on average, with maybe a few extra around Xmas. I'm kinda happy with that. I've never been in it for the money but since retiring and getting a bit older i find that weekends don't mean much nowadays so gigging more wouldn't be a problem and the extra cash would come in handy to buy new gear and satisfy GAS if that's actually possible. So maybe my attitude to playing is turning towards chasing the money 

Dave

[SpondonBassed]

9 hours ago, Les said:

Reading these sort of threads with interest it does seem to be that the guys who haven't gigged for a while seem to to have the most difficulty. Maybe being out the loop and 

rusty networks take their toll.

Les

As a hobbyist, I see that too.  Some people on my side of the fence (if you accept that there is one) use the word clique to describe the weekend warrior set.  I suspect that the word is used by those who aren't able to meet the demands of the perceived clique and who become resentful as a consequence.

 

9 hours ago, mic mac moe said:

It's the pool that you have to recruit from that's the problem. I've personally been gigging constantly since early 80's. It's my main income, although I wouldn't use the word professional. It frustrates me that the folk you come across aren't of the same level of interest. I'm now 50 and the group of peers are just dwindling hobbyists or mid life crisis types. Or so it seems. My mate is a former cruise ship guitarist who has ended up being a care assistant on a shift rota. So sad

I resemble both aspects of that remark!

Heeheehee

You've correctly identified me with that description.  I fully accept that where I am coming from is not what is required to become a player on the local circuit.  Bass is the therapy for my mid-life crisis.

I also have to accept that any opportunity I get to play in front of folk who I don't know is crucial if I am to grow much at all.  That is the catch 22.  To cross the fence and enter that pool you need an acceptable reputation.  It is very difficult for someone like me to earn one without making mistakes.

Once you've made those mistakes they stay with you on the local circuit.  Pub jams then become like the school yard when two popular kids pick out teams for football.  I used to always be the last one chosen.  In adult life that's a hurdle that must be overcome in order to dispel lifelong feelings of inadequacy.

To my advantage however, I get to practice lines for all of the songs that I like and none of the popular ones that I don't.  My repertoire now consists of about thirty songs that I can drop into at random with a near passable bassline and another ten that I struggle with but persist nevertheless.

I haven't added any new songs for a while since a domestic upheaval knocked me sideways a couple of years ago.  My playing will become stagnant if I don't introduce some new practice songs soon though.

I'd be silly to think that I could run a band but I haven't discounted the possibility of meeting someone in similar circumstances who is local enough to make up a two piece rehearsal band with no plans for gigs.  If that happened I'd be a lot happier going to Open Mics and Jams.

[FinnDave]

Just read through this thread, and have to say that what I have read doesn't tally with my experience of bands in the UK since I moved here from Finland in 2012. 

I am currently in 3 working bands, one I joined when it was forming in early 2013, and apart from a rhythm guitarist who couldn't play and was asked to leave after a year or so, and 18 months of trying to assimilate a former rock star singer (eventually also asked to leave), the four of us have all been there from the start. 

After depping with another band playing similar music but with a slight more traditional bias, I was asked to join them last Christmas. They needed a second guitarist, and so I recruited the guitarist from my first band, as we work well together and are good mates. I run bookings for the first band, and the leader of the second and myself regularly update each other on availability. 

My third band is not local, it's a 90 mile drive each way to rehearse, and has members from London, Nottingham, Leeds, Leicester, Northampton and Oxford. We rehearse approx every other month, and gig when and where we can. The only person that I am aware of having been unreliable about rehearsing was the bassist I replaced in January.

I get asked to join bands about once a month, but turn them down as three sets to remember is enough for me. I do not consider my playing to be anything special, whenever I look at videos posted by people here I have no idea where to start to play like they do. All I do is learn my parts and turn up with solid and reliable equipment. If there are people who can't even manage to do that for something they love to do, then they must really struggle with the everyday necessities of life.

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, FinnDave said:

Just read through this thread, and have to say that what I have read doesn't tally with my experience of bands in the UK since I moved here from Finland in 2012. 

Yes but you are a Rock and Roll machine Dave, don't forget.

[Newfoundfreedom]

3 hours ago, FinnDave said:

8 months of trying to assimilate a former rock star singer (eventually also asked to leave)

Anyone we know? (Just because I'm nosey 😉)