Metallica's ...And Justice For All remastered

[JimBobTTD]

Sadly, the version of Dyers Eve that has been put on YouTube sounds very much like the one on the album, so we can expect that it will not suddenly be a basstastic LP. 

Still, I feel giddy like a little boy. This was the album that got me hooked on Metallica, and it was Metallica that made me pick up the guitar and bass. 

More info: https://www.guitarworld.com/news/metallica-announce-definitive-and-justice-for-all-reissue

 

[paul_5]

Yeah!!! Got this on vinyl the year it came out and always thought that my turntable was broken as there was no low end at all.

 

It’s a real missed opportunity to make good on what this album should have been, but apparently there were so many drum edits on the tape that it’s too fragile to remix from the originals. 

F#@king Lars. Again.

[fretmeister]

This guy has done a much better job than Lars

 

 

 

[vantagepointrocks]

There is a post on Super Deluxe Edition listing all that is contained in the boxset. Seems very comprehensive, but is missing the one thing I think most people would want, a remix to make the bass audible.

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/metallica-and-justice-for-all-box-set/

 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by vantagepointrocks
Fix link

[operative451]

There's a bunch of remixes dotted about called things like 'And Justice for Jason' or 'And Jason for All'..

[Monkey Steve]

woot - another gig to add to the official live releases that I'm on (on the Super Deluxe version)

Still, sometimes it's better if you can't hear Metallica's bass

 

[The59Sound]

Metallica's most metal album.

Metallica's worst sounding album.

[thodrik]

I'm guessing that the CD of 'Rough Mixes' in the deluxe will be far superior to the actual album.

I like the compositions in the album, I just find the album mix to be unlistenable after about two tracks. It isn't just the absence of bass, it is the incredibly loud mix of the drums have no bottom end or depth whatsoever, it is complete lack of musicality or definition in the rhythm guitars. 

With that said, I loved the remastered versions of Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning. 

[Cato]

2 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

woot - another gig to add to the official live releases that I'm on (on the Super Deluxe version)

Still, sometimes it's better if you can't hear Metallica's bass

 

That's the most horrible thing I've heard in a long time.

A long, long time.

Just to clarify I'm not singling out the bass, I mean the whole performance was really unpleasant to listen to.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Cato

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, thodrik said:

I'm guessing that the CD of 'Rough Mixes' in the deluxe will be far superior to the actual album.

I like the compositions in the album, I just find the album mix to be unlistenable after about two tracks. It isn't just the absence of bass, it is the incredibly loud mix of the drums have no bottom end or depth whatsoever, it is complete lack of musicality or definition in the rhythm guitars. 

With that said, I loved the remastered versions of Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning. 

My memory of it at the time was that it was bloated - over long songs that didn't have the spark of Master of Puppets or the energy of the $5.98 ep, didn't sound great (possibly the combination of the two - songs that didn't sound great but went on for a really long time) and after giving it a fair go, I relegated it to one of those albums I owned but never listened to. If anybody remembers when Master of Puppets came out, the original 1 x 33 rpm pressing sounded awful, so they re-pressed it on 2 x 45 rpm and it sounded amazing.  I was hoping that there was a similar trick they could apply to & Justice but it never came.   Saw them on the tour, that was fine, but for me it was the first of the run of disappointing albums that continues to this day. 

My damascene moment was seeing them at Reading, what, a dozen years ago.  hadn't seen them for more than a decade, but my then girlfriend had never seen them and was very excited, despite my mumbling about how they were no doubt going to play four songs off the first three albums and I'd hate the rest of it.  I've never been more wrong - only played five songs that weren't off the first four albums and the couple from & Justice were fantastic.  What a difference the bass makes

[AntLockyer]

I absolutely love the album and have never really worried about the badness of it all. Going to put it on loud now.

<edit>

Interestingly it's got tons of low end which is mainly kick drum, I do have 15" bass drivers in my hifi though.

Edited September 7, 2018 by AntLockyer

[Mastodon2]

3 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

woot - another gig to add to the official live releases that I'm on (on the Super Deluxe version)

Still, sometimes it's better if you can't hear Metallica's bass

 

That was terrible on every level. I actually thought it was one of those things where someone dubs fake audio over the top at first. Kirk's guitar tone is terrible, so is Rob's bass tone for that matter, it's just an awful performance.

Amazing to think that Rob's time on bass with Metallica is now longer than Jason's, but for me Jason will always be the Metallica bassist. He really brought the best out of the band in a live setting, maybe it was his dedication and focus on the music but Metallica were super tight when he was with them. I've never bought the Rob hype, I'm not into his loose style and clangy sound, but Metallica's live performances have degraded so much over recent years. They are probably at their best now since they have been since about 2004 in live terms, but still nowhere near as tight and powerful as they were. 

I know much has been said about Lars messing with Jason in the early days and deliberately dropping the bass right down in the mix for AJFA, but you'd think that kind of studio joke wouldn't make it onto a finished product. I think they just lost their mind when it came to mixing that album.

[HazBeen]

I like the "And Justice for Jason" version

Agree, this When Doves Cry is just horrid on so many levels.... ah well.

I preferred Rob when he was playing on Jerry Cantrell's Degredation Trip album with Mike Bordin. Great tone there to, now it is more a bass fart than bass tone.

[Newfoundfreedom]

4 hours ago, The59Sound said:

Metallica's most metal album.

Metallica's worst sounding album.

Never listened St Anger then? 

Absolute dross, and I'm a massive Metallica fan.

For me, Justice For All is their second best album. The best being the black album. 

Edit

Actually, Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightening were great albums too, it's hard to choose between them. But I certainly wouldn't put Justice at the bottom of the pile considering the crap they put out after The Black Album. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Newfoundfreedom

[Skybone]

Went to see them on the "And Justice" tour, one of the few gigs I've ever walked out of (another one was Slayer's "South of Heaven" tour).

Got the album the day it came out, but for me, they just couldn't capture the same essence as they did with Cliff. At the time, I thought Jason was a great addition to the band, the Flotsam "Doomsday for the Deceiver" album was pretty good, with some great bass work, but when "And Justice" landed, it was a huge disappointment.

Danzig were very good on that your though, most Metallica fans didn't know what to think of them.  

Jason's best work was recording those three albums with Voivod. Still their best work to date IMO (really looking forward to hearing "The Wake"!). RIP Piggy & Cliff.

 

[The59Sound]

6 hours ago, The59Sound said:

Metallica's most metal album.

Metallica's worst sounding album.

 

2 hours ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Never listened St Anger then? 

Sorry, you're right. St Anger is their most metal album. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 hour ago, The59Sound said:

 

Sorry, you're right. St Anger is their most metal album. 

I'd actually say Kill 'em All, their first album was the most "metal", to my ear at least. But I'd still rate it well above At Anger. 

Anyway, what was this thread about again? 😂

[bottomofthebarrel]

5 hours ago, Cato said:

That's the most horrible thing I've heard in a long time.

A long, long time.

Just to clarify I'm not singling out the bass, I mean the whole performance was really unpleasant to listen to.

Had to turn it off after about 40 seconds. What a "treat" for the audience……….

[JimBobTTD]

I preordered the deluxe box version on Amazon seconds after starting the thread. 

It will take weeks. And I shall need to buy a record player!

[Skybone]

17 hours ago, The59Sound said:

Sorry, you're right. St Anger is their most metal album. 

Unfortunately, St Anger was 10 years too late (and only possible thanks to Pro Tools - by their own admission!).

[Bassassin]

Justice was the album that made me a Metallica fan & got me back into metal - I'd also say it represents a seminal moment in the birth of the prog metal genre. So I was just a little bit excitable when I read about this - right up until I listened to the Dyer's Eve stream. Gutted. Same old same old, and (from an ex-fan's POV at least) another slap in the face for Jason.

Really, from the point of the Napster thing onwards, it's been hard to shake the feeling that Metallica had become a cynical, profit-motivated business being run by a bunch of cnuts. A proper remaster/remix of Justice would've gone a long way redress that feeling - but all this does is reinforce it.

[Wolverinebass]

In truth, none of this is surprising. Lars and James will never admit to a mistake. Have they ever apologised to Jason for all the crap they gave him? The fact that they haven't changed this album is testament to this fact.

In truth, I generally enjoy their stuff. Not for its content, but having a laugh with a few fellow producers I know about what innovative way they can ruin their new album with abysmal production. Each of us put in £20 and make a nomination with winner taking all. I got the Death Magnetic digital distortion debacle. The reason being is that Metallica are generally 5 years behind the curve with things. Loudness wars kind of peaked before that album 5 years beforehand with Foo Fighters. However, I digress.

They're doing the checklist though. No audible bass, appalling drum sounds, St. Anger snare sound, digital distortion/clipping, atrocious guitar tones from Kirk. Let's face it, the list is long and extensive.

They're tools. That fact was clearly brought out by the Napster hearings and Some Kind of Monster just put the icing on the cake in terms of them demolishing any sympathy for their respective public personas.

[Chris2112]

If they can't remaster the album because the original tapes are too fragile, then they should give Jason another crack at it. Sit him down with an Alembic and let him re-record it. The fans would love it and it would finally be the 'justice for Jason' we have all wanted. 

It's a shame that the band collectively pushed Jason out, and then took over a decade from that point to really honour his legacy. He brought a level of precision to the bass playing that Cliff just didn't have. Cliff is held up as sacred by the Metallica hardcore because of his untimely death but in reality, I have never found his loose, fuzzy bass sound to be very satisfying or effective. I hate to prescribe what a bassist should do but in the instance of Metallica, having a solid pick-player was the perfect tonic to lock everything together both on record and on stage. 

[BreadBin]

On 07/09/2018 at 12:24, Cato said:

That's the most horrible thing I've heard in a long time.

A long, long time.

Just to clarify I'm not singling out the bass, I mean the whole performance was really unpleasant to listen to.

That describes every single one of Rob and Kirk's doodles that I have regretfully clicked on.

[Muzz]

2 hours ago, BreadBin said:

That describes every single one of Rob and Kirk's doodles that I have regretfully clicked on.

You mean there's more than that? Jeeeeezzz.... It really was the worst kind of self-delusion I've come to expect of Metallica: I've genuinely heard toe-curling stuff at jam nights that was leagues better than that...