Does anyone actually LIKE jazz?

[Dad3353]

+1 ^^

'Swing' isn't jazz, and jazz isn't always 'swing'.

[BassTractor]

I think there is some degree of snobbery and elitism attached to any art form. That however does not mean it's all snobbery and elitism. IMHO much of it is honest and true, and shows a love for the art.

For example, I love lots of blues, country, punk, pop, rock, jazz, classical, new "avant garde" music etc etc, but not all of it.

So at the same time as me liking the Sex Pistols, Iannis Xenakis, Yes and Carrie Underwood, the song Moondance (if I assume correctly that people talk about a 1970 Van Morrison song) makes my stomach turn, and that's not even figuratively speaking. It makes me physically unwell. That's not snobbery or elitism. It's just how my brain/body reacted spontaneously when I heard the song for the first time when I checked it just now.

My guess is that the same goes for most people who don't like the song. It's not about their snobbery or their elitism. It's about the song being shït to them.

 

[drTStingray]

I quite like it (though am not a great fan of his singing) - can be great to play, with a good singer and tight band (hopefully with a light touch drummer - B and Q shed assembling moon lighters can ruin it!) 

[lowdown]

17 hours ago, BassTractor said:

the song Moondance 

My guess is that the same goes for most people who don't like the song. It's not about their snobbery or their elitism. It's about the song being shït to them.

Agreed.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by lowdown

[BassTractor]

BTW, my comments were about one version of the song (Van Morrison, 1970 as per YT). As that version started out pleasantly enough, I suppose the song is OK in other versions, and I might enjoy playing it myself.  

Now you guys did it. I'm gonna find out what this song is, and who did versions of it. The irony might turn out to be that I played it live myself in the 70s or 80s, and enjoyed it thoroughly.

[Count Bassy]

I can see nothing wrong with Moondance. Nice little tune, although I've never played it out anywhere. Whether it counts as Jazz or not? Who cares?  I don't recall VM ever claiming it to be Jazz.

Do people really hear a song and decide if they like it or not based on what genre they think it is. IMHO a good tune is a good tune wherever it comes from.

As to people taking against it (particulary here it seems), it's a victim of it's own success and popularity, as per Mustang Sally, Johnny B Goode, etc etc.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Count Bassy

[Coilte]

2 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

 Whether it counts as Jazz or not? Who cares?  

 

My sentiments entirely.  🙂  Though judging from this, and previous threads about Moondance, it would seem that people DO care....a lot !! 🤔

[mangotango]

My jazz-y quartet plays Moondance. We play it with a four-on-the-floor walking bassline, time kept on the ride cymbal by the drummer, altered chords, melody played by the saxophone...and will generally quote the melody of "Midnight Blue" in my solo (see my previous post), as well as using standard jazz techniques like side-slipping, substitute chords, and the like.

Is it jazz? It's certainly close enough for most audiences to whom we play it.

 

 

[lowdown]

Van Morrison himself, musicians in the band, critics, journalists etc..called it Jazz. So who are we to argue?

I suppose how Jazzy and swinging it is, really depends on who's playing it.  EDIT: ( I just noticed that 'Mangotango' beat me to it, above)... 

 

"Moondance' started as a Jazz saxophone instrumental, and Van played that original sax solo he wrote for the song. He told Rolling Stone magazine:".

"I used to play this sax number over and over, anytime I picked up my horn."

"Pianist and organist Jeff Labes recalled the recording of the track to Uncut: "I remember 'Moondance' itself was a big question mark. It was jazzy, and didn't seem to belong to the pack. "

"Moondance" was recorded at the Mastertone Studio in New York City in August 1969, with Lewis Merenstein. as producer. 
The song is played mostly acoustic, anchored by a walking bass line (played on electric bass by John Klingberg), with accompaniment by piano, guitar, saxophones, and flute with the instruments played with a soft jazz swing. It's a song about autumn, the composer's favorite season. Towards the end of the song, Morrison imitates a saxophone. The song also features a piano solo, played by Jeff Labes, which is immediately followed by an alto saxophone solo by Jack Schroer. The song ends with a trill on the Flute during the cadenza that fades out.

Music journalist Erik Hage wrote that the significance of the song "lies in its direct jazz approach", expanding that observation with "Astral Weeks had suggestions of jazz, but this song would take the genre head on. It would become Van Morrison's most successful and definitive jazz composition." 

"Moondance' has always been a jazz song."

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by lowdown

[mangotango]

4 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

 

"Moondance' has always been a jazz song."

 

Yep. As I said, it's always been Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue, in disguise.  In the same way that Parisienne Walkways has always been Kenny Dorham's Blue Bossa.

 

Moral of the story - If you're a jazz guy named Kenny....and you write a tune with "Blue" in the title....some Irish guy's gonna steal you blind.

[Chewie]

On 12/09/2018 at 09:10, Leonard Smalls said:

Like this?

 

That is the business........!

 

[lowdown]

On 17/09/2018 at 13:35, Leonard Smalls said:

Which is why jazz has always been music that pushes boundaries; it's not the tuxedo-ed dinner jazz types doing this - they're often basically covers bands (not that there's anything wrong with that - you've got to make a living!) but if someone wasn't making new music there'd be less to cover!

Although I agree with your (earlier) post. Some cover bands are just so much better than others. Well, Nelson and Frank's band were. 

This 'cover' is superb, on just about every level. 

 

 

 

 

[bassace]

Back to Moondance, and why not? Mickey Bubbles did a great version. The bass was playing over some very funky chords. And that version swung.

Not to be confused with Swing, which does anything but swing. Have I confused you? Swing refers to the era populated by Glenn Miller et al when the music must have excited the punters but listened to today sounds rather plodding. A jazz tune that swings moves forward effortlessly with an urgent pulse from the bass propelling the rhythm forward. And the tempo doesn’t need to be over fast for a tune to swing. Try to listen toRay Brown playing with Oscar Peterson on Have you met Miss Jones. Played at a languid tempo that swings like crazy.

[timhiggins]

Jazz is the holy grail to musicians and if you can master it you'll be able to play anything !

loads of great stuff already posted on here so i thought i'd share one of my late night faves

and lesser known gems

 

[timhiggins]

 

[Cato]

Tuba Hip-Hop Reggae Jazz.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Cato

[BassTractor]

 

Nice little Herb Alpert ditty with one Hussain Jiffry in bass. 

I like it.

 

 

[wambamalubop]

A rainy Sunday evening in Bristol around 1987, feeling a bit lonely, I’m walking my local streets, from a pub comes the sound of some local musicians playing Blue Bossa. There’s a cute girl sitting at the front with her girlfriend, we’re both digging Andy Sheppard and his band.

Thank god for Jazz. I wish I was able to play it well, then I’d know I’d truly been blessed. One day!

This double album is a favourite of mine

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by wambamalubop

[Count Bassy]

22 hours ago, lowdown said:

Van Morrison himself, musicians in the band, critics, journalists etc..called it Jazz. So who are we to argue?

I suppose how Jazzy and swinging it is, really depends on who's playing it.  EDIT: ( I just noticed that 'Mangotango' beat me to it, above)... 

 

"Moondance' started as a Jazz saxophone instrumental, and Van played that original sax solo he wrote for the song. He told Rolling Stone magazine:".

"I used to play this sax number over and over, anytime I picked up my horn."

"Pianist and organist Jeff Labes recalled the recording of the track to Uncut: "I remember 'Moondance' itself was a big question mark. It was jazzy, and didn't seem to belong to the pack. "

"Moondance" was recorded at the Mastertone Studio in New York City in August 1969, with Lewis Merenstein. as producer. 
The song is played mostly acoustic, anchored by a walking bass line (played on electric bass by John Klingberg), with accompaniment by piano, guitar, saxophones, and flute with the instruments played with a soft jazz swing. It's a song about autumn, the composer's favorite season. Towards the end of the song, Morrison imitates a saxophone. The song also features a piano solo, played by Jeff Labes, which is immediately followed by an alto saxophone solo by Jack Schroer. The song ends with a trill on the Flute during the cadenza that fades out.

Music journalist Erik Hage wrote that the significance of the song "lies in its direct jazz approach", expanding that observation with "Astral Weeks had suggestions of jazz, but this song would take the genre head on. It would become Van Morrison's most successful and definitive jazz composition." 

"Moondance' has always been a jazz song."

 

  Re my earlier line "I don't recall VM ever claiming it to be Jazz" - I stand corrected. Still not that bothered what it's called though 🙂.

PS there are just too many different emojies these days.

[Bilbo]

The problem I have with things like Moondance is that they are discussed by uninformed people as being representative of the genre which is, to my mind, a distortion. Add the fact that the original performance of the tune by VM is very weak and you can see why it draws criticism. The truth is, VM has made millions out of it and there are 1000s of covers. Why would he give a rat's what I think? 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Bilbo