Best strings for tuned-down 30" scale?

[scrumpymike]

I've been asked to dep with a rock band from now til the New Year.  I only play short-scale basses nowadays and the band tune down a semi.  Had a rehearsal with them on Sunday and tried out my Maruszczyk Elwood (medium-gauge D'Addario flats) and my Andy Jr special (Fender Rascal neck/electrics/hardware on custom body with original light-gauge Fender rounds).  Surprisingly (to me anyway) it was the custom bass that gave the best sound (thru my Mesa Subway 800 and 2 x BF Super Compact G3 cabs).  The band seemed happy but I'd like to experiment a bit with different strings on the Elwood.  Any suggestions for what might tighten things up a bit?

[BassApprentice]

Paging @skelf pretty sure he is experimenting with strings on tiny basses. He uses Newtone custom gauges - pretty sure the formula is: shorter = higher gauge to ensure tension. 

[scrumpymike]

3 minutes ago, BassApprentice said:

Paging @skelf pretty sure he is experimenting with strings on tiny basses. He uses Newtone custom gauges - pretty sure the formula is: shorter = higher gauge to ensure tension. 

Thanks for the lead.  As you suggest, shorter scale normally means lower tension and a heavier gauge is the obvious way to add some tension back - hence my surprise at how good the light-gauge Fender strings sounded on my tuned-down 30" scale bass.

[skelf]

It is not just about tension it is also about compliance. How much force is required to move the string. A stiffer string requires more energy to start it moving which in turns makes the string feel it has a higher tension. So while a higher gauge does help it is not the only consideration string construction has a noticeable effect on how the string/bass feels. 

 

Tension is fixed by the scale string gauge and pitch but how it all feels can be manipulated  to an extent. The construction of the bass also effects how the string feels. Ideally you want a stiff construction which is less prone to flexing along with the string. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by skelf

[scrumpymike]

18 hours ago, skelf said:

It is not just about tension it is also about compliance. How much force is required to move the string. A stiffer string requires more energy to start it moving which in turns makes the string feel it has a higher tension. So while a higher gauge does help it is not the only consideration string construction has a noticeable effect on how the string/bass feels. 

 

Tension is fixed by the scale string gauge and pitch but how it all feels can be manipulated  to an extent. The construction of the bass also effects how the string feels. Ideally you want a stiff construction which is less prone to flexing along with the string. 

Thanks skelf - I know this is pretty complicated.  The compromise I'm after is low physical input with good sonic definition but I don't know how to translate that into a string spec.  Maybe time to have a chat with Newtone.

[TheGreek]

On 19/09/2018 at 21:52, skelf said:

It is not just about tension it is also about compliance. How much force is required to move the string. A stiffer string requires more energy to start it moving which in turns makes the string feel it has a higher tension. So while a higher gauge does help it is not the only consideration string construction has a noticeable effect on how the string/bass feels. 

 

Tension is fixed by the scale string gauge and pitch but how it all feels can be manipulated  to an extent. The construction of the bass also effects how the string feels. Ideally you want a stiff construction which is less prone to flexing along with the string. 

Come on Alan...

This sounds like the sort of answer (not the complexity of the answer obviously) that my Mum would give. Ask her "what is black?" she tell you, "weell it's not white, and it's not yellow...you remember when you was 2 years old and your cousin came round? The t-shirt he was wearing was  nearly that colour.."...ad finitum.

He just wants you to say "D'Addario"...

[skelf]

What can I say, let you down there.

[scrumpymike]

😄  Yep, Mick's right - that's the sort of answer I was hoping for!!

[Guest ixlramp]

If you want more tension, stay with the string brand/line you like and just increase the gauges to the next heavier set, or if such a set doesn't exist, build a custom set of singles.

For a semitone down, very roughly, add .005 to all gauges to maintain a similar tension. However ..

On 20/09/2018 at 16:07, scrumpymike said:

low physical input with good sonic definition

This suggests a lower tension string. Smaller gauges will be more flexible and will therefore have a clearer and more harmonic tone. On 30" a typical E string is becoming problematically thick, like a B is on 34". Also consider that a shorter scale creates a less floppy string so you don't need as much tension.

Maybe this is why the light gauge set sounded so good.

[scrumpymike]

3 hours ago, ixlramp said:

If you want more tension, stay with the string brand/line you like and just increase the gauges to the next heavier set, or if such a set doesn't exist, build a custom set of singles.

For a semitone down, very roughly, add .005 to all gauges to maintain a similar tension. However ..

This suggests a lower tension string. Smaller gauges will be more flexible and will therefore have a clearer and more harmonic tone. On 30" a typical E string is becoming problematically thick, like a B is on 34". Also consider that a shorter scale creates a less floppy string so you don't need as much tension.

Maybe this is why the light gauge set sounded so good.

Thanks for that.  Just fitted a set of GHS Brite Flats in medium gauge, already had them so nothing lost.  They're definitely have a much stiffer feel than I'm comfortable with but I'll see how they sound in rehearsal.  Following on from what you said though, maybe a higher tension set of light gauge would be the best compromise.  Too many variables for me and I can't afford to try everything.