Old School sounding amp to replace Walkabout

[Chienmortbb]

23 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

So maybe the whole “300w AB = 800w class D” thing is more conservative rated AB vs class D rating trying to quantify its peak power too. 

The thing I don’t understand is we’ve had this leap from lower powered amps to 4000w class D amps - but has there been an equivalent jump in driver technology? 

No slow evolution really.

[Muzz]

FRFR/DSP?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Muzz

[Steve Browning]

I had to sell my Walkabout a few months back, to finance a blown Transit engine. I am delighted to report I have just bought a replacement one - and it's 240 volt.

Admittedly I use mine mainly for rehearsing and recording but I have used it on many a decent sized gig and it's never been too quiet. Absolutely nail the vintage sound. 

[fretmeister]

@drlargepants

 

Saw the comments about the M900 - do you want a photo of my settings? 

I'm using a passive PJ with it and I'm very happy with my big band sound. Chunky bottom, enough space in the mids for the trombones, and a little treble, and with a touch of wooliness provided by the B3K circuit.

The VMT circuit should be the better choice for this... but it isn't. Far too much mids clashes with the other instruments. The B3K circuit does it far better and with less EQ mucking about.

[drlargepants]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

@drlargepants

 

Saw the comments about the M900 - do you want a photo of my settings? 

I'm using a passive PJ with it and I'm very happy with my big band sound. Chunky bottom, enough space in the mids for the trombones, and a little treble, and with a touch of wooliness provided by the B3K circuit.

The VMT circuit should be the better choice for this... but it isn't. Far too much mids clashes with the other instruments. The B3K circuit does it far better and with less EQ mucking about.

Yes very much so, thank you !

i also very much agree about the b3k being generally better sounding for more vintage stuff (which isn’t what you’d expect)

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

@drlargepants

 

Saw the comments about the M900 - do you want a photo of my settings? 

I'm using a passive PJ with it and I'm very happy with my big band sound. Chunky bottom, enough space in the mids for the trombones, and a little treble, and with a touch of wooliness provided by the B3K circuit.

The VMT circuit should be the better choice for this... but it isn't. Far too much mids clashes with the other instruments. The B3K circuit does it far better and with less EQ mucking about.

+1 for getting a pic of your settings.

Btw - what passive PJ are you playing through and what is your cab?

[fretmeister]

 

And a Barefaced One10 cab (or a pair if I need it)

 

I'll grab a photo of the amp settings when I get home.

[fretmeister]

I use the tone on the bass to control the treble rather than the amp. 

 

Drive level depends on the bass used. I turn it up until I can hear drive then knock it down again a smidge. 

 

The tone flip switches are important.

 

the bass EQ isn’t always quite that high but never far off either- depends on the room.

 

b3k model as said.

 

into Barefaced One10 which is quite vintage sounding too.

 

And last week I was playing Van Morrison’s Moondance with it. Nice walking line to play. 

[Al Krow]

@fretmeister

Interesting: a very different set up to how I have my DG M900!  Your set up is much more classically mid scooped (and bass heavy) and you're centring the mids you are cutting at 250 Hz and 750 Hz (on mine:  500 Hz and 1.5 kHz). You've also gone for a low drive / high gain / low master volume with the drive 'always on' and I've gone for the exact opposite in each of these. And to round it off, my bandmates marginally preferred the VMT for a drive tone with my J bass than the B3K.

I guess what that is simply saying to me is: horses for courses and this is clearly an amp with a lot of flexibility!  

[drlargepants]

23 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I use the tone on the bass to control the treble rather than the amp. 

 

Drive level depends on the bass used. I turn it up until I can hear drive then knock it down again a smidge. 

 

The tone flip switches are important.

 

the bass EQ isn’t always quite that high but never far off either- depends on the room.

 

b3k model as said.

 

into Barefaced One10 which is quite vintage sounding too.

 

And last week I was playing Van Morrison’s Moondance with it. Nice walking line to play. 

Interestingly bar the bass that’s the settings I happened upon last night that I was quite happy with. Probably less drive also. Actually I had the blend over 12 o’clock also. 

Worked very well. 

[Al Krow]

30 minutes ago, drlargepants said:

Interestingly bar the bass that’s the settings I happened upon last night that I was quite happy with. Probably less drive also. Actually I had the blend over 12 o’clock also. 

Worked very well. 

Does that mean the DG M900 could be getting a stay of execution in the Largepant household doc?  

[drlargepants]

Could be ...

[Al Krow]

I'll send you my fee note for my "intervention" later then...  

But seriously, it would be great to see if by adjusting the M900's very versatile EQ, in the way that you and Mr Master Fret have been doing, can get you to where you're wanting to be. That would be a very good result.

Maximise the potential of the gear we already have. I can think of worse mottoes.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Al Krow

[drlargepants]

Cards on the table. I don’t understand eq I never have, if it’s anything more than bass and treble I get lost !

Edited September 27, 2018 by drlargepants

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, drlargepants said:

Cards on the table. I don’t understand eq I never have, if it’s anything more than bass and treble I get lost !

Oh dear, doc. Because the mids, the mids, the mids, for the bass player that's where it's at

[drlargepants]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Oh dear, doc. Because the mids, the mids, the mids, for the bass player that's where it's at

So I’m told. 

I don’t understand the relationship between the dials on a four band eq, or how tone stacks work. 

I just play the things !

[Al Krow]

12 hours ago, drlargepants said:

So I’m told. 

I don’t understand the relationship between the dials on a four band eq, or how tone stacks work. 

I just play the things !

If you're interested, please shout. The starting point is quite simply to find out what the EQ centre points are on your amp and then to just adjust the EQ from full cut to full boost on each individual EQ dial (with all other dials left untouched on neutral and with gain / volume simply set to comfortable) to give you a feel for what each EQ dial is doing (with neutral being "noon" on most amps including the M900).

Here's a quote from a review of the DG M900 I posted a little while back:

"The EQ section is perhaps the best available on any D class amp at a similar (or cheaper) price point on the market today, with very usable and versatile EQ centre points: 

Bass - 80Hz

Low mids - toggle switch optionality centring at 250, 500 or 750 Hz

High mids - 750Hz, 1.5kHz and 3kHz

Treble - 5kHz"

But if you're after a crisp, punchy bass tone and want to avoid a muddy, flacid or boomy tone having a basic grasp of EQ is essential and worth spending a little time getting familiar with.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Al Krow

[bassace]

Permit me to hijack. Has anyone here an opinion re the merits of hi mid/lo mid over a parametric mid? It seems to me that however sophisticated the para, even one with the third variable (bandwidth) is still one mid, whereas lo/hi allow a much more versatile adjustment. This has been bugging me for a while.

BTW, I certainly agree that it’s all about the mids. 

[wateroftyne]

Yep, the mids are definitely where it’s at. The voicing of the Handbox is glorious in that regard.

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, bassace said:

Permit me to hijack. Has anyone here an opinion re the merits of hi mid/lo mid over a parametric mid? It seems to me that however sophisticated the para, even one with the third variable (bandwidth) is still one mid, whereas lo/hi allow a much more versatile adjustment. This has been bugging me for a while.

BTW, I certainly agree that it’s all about the mids. 

Mid EQs - five popular D class heads compared

Having both a lo and hi mid option could well be better than just a single parametric mid but this will depend on where the lo and hi mids are centred. If I compare what's available on five popular D class heads used by BCers:

The much liked Genzler Magellan 800 (£799 new), which has a single variable freq single mid EQ control, is going to be better than my Markbass LM3 head (£429 new) in this regard. The LM3 has its lo mids centred at 360 Hz and high mids at 800Hz (leaving a massive gap before the treble centred at 10kHz); but the GM unlikely to be better than the new Little Marcus 800 (£608) which has FIVE EQ controls: ULTRALOW:  65Hz LOW: 180Hz MID: 500 Hz HIGH MID: 1.4 KHz  HIGH: 3.8 KHz.

The DG M900 (£925 new) should also deliver an improvement over the GM's variable freq single mid EQ control by giving a choice of three EQ centre points for both their lo and hi mids.

The Mesa D800+ (£1,050 new) goes one step further by giving you a continuously variable EQ mid point for both the lo and hi mid (and also has a very useful hi pass filter), but is actually considerably more expensive than the (not cheap!) DG M900 when you factor in DG including £250+ worth of (B3K / VMT) dirt pedals in their amp.

[As an aside, the Mesa does look great on paper but I didn't find myself being "blown away" by the sound which I would want to be at that price point (and it didn't in particular, for me, reproduce the magic sparkle of my Mesa M6 head);  in the meantime I managed to bag a reasonably priced used M900 instead, which has "done the job" a treat].

Edited September 28, 2018 by Al Krow

[Muzz]

It's worth mentioning that the Magellan does also have a dual Contour control which, while it's a little vague as to numbers, does add to the shaping possibilities, especially around the mids.

And none of them come close to the frankly intimidatingly bonkers array of knobs on the Genz Shuttles...that 12.2 was just boggling, to be honest... 😕🙂

[Lozz196]

Old-school sounding amp, check out the re-emerged Orange Terror, now with added Clean switch. 

[drlargepants]

50 minutes ago, Muzz said:

It's worth mentioning that the Magellan does also have a dual Contour control which, while it's a little vague as to numbers, does add to the shaping possibilities, especially around the mids.

And none of them come close to the frankly intimidatingly bonkers array of knobs on the Genz Shuttles...that 12.2 was just boggling, to be honest... 😕🙂

I had one of those, couldn’t figure out the knobs, sold it. 

Was very good with everything on 12 though !

[Muzz]

You and most other people who bought one... 😀

[markorbit]

6 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Old-school sounding amp, check out the re-emerged Orange Terror, now with added Clean switch. 

I was somewhat surprised to see Fleetwood Mac's John McVie has chosen the new Terror Bass for his recent stage rig. Obviously this guy can play what he wants no matter the cost. Perhaps I should check the new version out. I tried the old one and found it a bit limited tone-wise but maybe the new Clean switch allows more variation. I quite like John McVie's tone usually - just a simple, warm tone that works.