Old School sounding amp to replace Walkabout

[drlargepants]

6 hours ago, Muzz said:

You and most other people who bought one... 😀

I actually really like those amps, ignoring the middle ‘starship enterprise’ bit. 

Light, powerful and has a real tube (iirc)

[drlargepants]

4 minutes ago, markorbit said:

I was somewhat surprised to see Fleetwood Mac's John McVie has chosen the new Terror Bass for his recent stage rig. Obviously this guy can play what he wants no matter the cost. Perhaps I should check the new version out. I tried the old one and found it a bit limited tone-wise but maybe the new Clean switch allows more variation. I quite like John McVie's tone usually - just a simple, warm tone that works.

Very interesting as one would assume he doesn’t lug his own gear about. 

What cabs was he using ?

[markorbit]

On closer inspection it isn't the Terror Bass that is in his live rig but four AD200s. Pics here. https://orangeamps.com/artist/john-mcvie-of-fleetwood-mac-2/

 

[drlargepants]

54 minutes ago, markorbit said:

On closer inspection it isn't the Terror Bass that is in his live rig but four AD200s. Pics here. https://orangeamps.com/artist/john-mcvie-of-fleetwood-mac-2/

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but why would you need four heads in this day and age, what with front and side monitors etc ?

[Osiris]

23 hours ago, bassace said:

Permit me to hijack. Has anyone here an opinion re the merits of hi mid/lo mid over a parametric mid? It seems to me that however sophisticated the para, even one with the third variable (bandwidth) is still one mid, whereas lo/hi allow a much more versatile adjustment. This has been bugging me for a while.

BTW, I certainly agree that it’s all about the mids. 

Both fixed frequency mid band controls and (usually) semi-parametric mid controls (those with a sweepable frequency range as well as a cut/boost control) have their uses. In my experience neither one is 'better' (whatever that means to you) than the other, they are simply different ways of controlling the critical mids. 

Fixed mid controls, be they part of a multi-band graphic EQ or 1 or 2 controls on the pre-amp, allow you to cut and boost the mids around the stated frequency centre for that control. If it's part of a multi-band graphic the range of the control (the frequencies affected) is usually quite narrow but you have the neighbouring sliders to help craft your tone. For amps with only 1 or 2 mid band controls the range is usually wider and has a more noticeable impact on your sound.

Semi-parametric mid controls allow you to select the exact frequencies you want to control. While a single semi-parametric mid is ostensibly more limited than 2 or more fixed frequency controls, they allow you to isolate troublesome frequencies e.g. in a room where the bass is booming you can pinpoint the offending low mid and cut it. Likewise, in a dead sounding room you can find an upper mid frequency that gives the bass some clarity and definition in the mix and give it a gentle push. 

If you like the fixed frequencies that the manufacturer has chosen in their pre-amp design and they work for you then job done. If you want more surgical control to isolate problem frequencies then a para or semi-parametric control will serve you better. 

[Al Krow]

@Osiris Agree with all that.

But obviously if you have semi parametric control (or something that gets close to it) for both lo mids and hi mids then that is going to give you even more control over the critical mids, than just a single parametric mid control. That additional flexibility is something that both the DG M900 and the Mesa D800+ offer, but they both come with a price tag to match their quality (particularly the Mesa!)

Edited September 29, 2018 by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@Osiris Agree with all that.

But obviously if you have semi parametric control (or something that gets close to it) for both lo mids and hi mids then that is going to give you even more control over the critical mids, than just a single parametric mid control. That additional flexibility is something that both the DG M900 and the Mesa D800+ offer, but they both come with a price tag to match their quality (particularly the Mesa!)

I agree but with a fully parametric control (one where you can adjust the Q (quality or width) and frequency parameters with a pot, you can cover a lot of the mids and not have a notch or peak at the crossover frequency where a high mids/low mids semi parametric system meets.

[Chienmortbb]

10 hours ago, markorbit said:

On closer inspection it isn't the Terror Bass that is in his live rig but four AD200s. Pics here. https://orangeamps.com/artist/john-mcvie-of-fleetwood-mac-2/

 

Same rig as Glenn Hughes uses then?

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I agree but with a fully parametric control (one where you can adjust the Q (quality or width) and frequency parameters with a pot, you can cover a lot of the mids and not have a notch or peak at the crossover frequency where a high mids/low mids semi parametric system meets.

Thanks for that.

But do any amps allow you fully parametric control over the mids or are we getting into Tech 21 Q\Strip or Empress para EQ territory (or at a much more budget level a Zoom MS-60B or B3n)? At which point you may as well stick with an amp that has basic EQ features and deal with EQ'ing via a pedal.

[Chienmortbb]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks for that.

But do any amps allow you fully parametric control over the mids or are we getting into Tech 21 Q\Strip or Empress para EQ territory (or at a much more budget level a Zoom MS-60B or B3n)? At which point you may as well stick with an amp that has basic EQ features and deal with EQ'ing via a pedal.

I don't think they do. Semi-parametic is cheap and easy to design, fully parametric is more complex and so takes time to design and is probably four times the number of components. The pedal option is probably the only option to be honest unless you are using some kind of modelling software.

 

[Muzz]

10 hours ago, markorbit said:

On closer inspection it isn't the Terror Bass that is in his live rig but four AD200s. Pics here. https://orangeamps.com/artist/john-mcvie-of-fleetwood-mac-2/

 

So he's definitely not lugging anything about himself, then... 😀

[grenadillabama]

I like the Vox Stomplab  1B for a cheap pedal with e.q. It was less than $100 with a power supply. The chromatic tuner and gtr effects are a free extra !    

[Al Krow]

Just now, grenadillabama said:

I like the Vox Stomplab  1B for a cheap pedal with e.q. It was less than $100 with a power supply. The chromatic tuner and gtr effects are a free extra !    

That's a very bold statement you're making there! 😂

[grenadillabama]

The 1B has a sweepable mid. The 1G has four bands of e.q.

Edited September 29, 2018 by grenadillabama

[Osiris]

On 29/09/2018 at 08:31, Al Krow said:

@Osiris Agree with all that.

But obviously if you have semi parametric control (or something that gets close to it) for both lo mids and hi mids then that is going to give you even more control over the critical mids, than just a single parametric mid control. That additional flexibility is something that both the DG M900 and the Mesa D800+ offer, but they both come with a price tag to match their quality (particularly the Mesa!)

Except that DG M900 doesn't have semi-parametric mids 

The 3 selectable frequencies for each band do offer a wide range of flexibility but it's not as precise as a semi-parametric - if you're looking to control a resonant frequency in a difficult room that is outside the options on the DG pre-amp you may run into problems, you might get close but you may also end up having to compromise I.e. live with it or use a pedal EQ. A sweepable mid control allows you to precisely isolate the problem frequency. 

And as @Muzz said, the Genzler has the single knob, dual voiced contour control for the mids, voice A being a variable mid scoop (more subtle but infinitely more usable than most) and voice B which bumps the low mids for a warm, rounded tone that plonks the bass right where you want it in the mix. Set up your core tone with voice A or B, tackle any troublesome frequencies with the semi-parametric mid control and off you go. Simple, quick and all the control most of us are ever likely to need. 

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Except that DG M900 doesn't have semi-parametric mids 

I know  hence my comment in brackets "(or something that gets close to it)"

I'm adept at finding loopholes; if only I was half as good at making decent bass-loops 😂

17 minutes ago, Osiris said:

if you're looking to control a resonant frequency in a difficult room that is outside the options on the DG pre-amp you may run into problems, you might get close but you may also end up having to compromise I.e. live with it or use a pedal EQ. A sweepable mid control allows you to precisely isolate the problem frequency. 

I'm impressed that you have the skills to do this. I don't even come close! 

The room acoustics of something as 'mundane' as a pub gig are continuously variable depending on how many punters and where they are standing and, besides, I can't hear what they're hearing, particularly with ear plugs in.

Much more basic approach for me - get a bass sound that broadly works during a quick 10 minute sound check; typically cut the bass a touch to avoid boominess and boost the mids a touch (having worked out beforehand what broadly delivers the best combination of bass and amp EQ with an isolated bass that I can hear); and make sure that my bass amp is sufficiently far forward so as not to get into a feedback loop with the mics. Seems to work fine.

And as we all know, provided you have the basic sound ok (balanced volume with the rest of the band, not a harsh tone or boomy bass) all that really matters is that you play tight with your drummer and with groove. The rest, frankly, is just Basschat.

 

[Muzz]

Just to haul this one back on topic, I had a rehearsal yesterday with a band who last all played together 28 years ago - we're going to do a one-off 30th anniversary gig next year, and I took my backline to the rehearsal rooms. Big room, shed-building drummer, guitar through the the PA and a wedge amp/monitor, and lots of late-80s keys. I had the Walkabout through the BF Super Twin, and I was murdering the drummer with the volume at 9 o'clock.

With efficient cabs (or just the one, in this case), a Walkabout can definitely be loud enough to hurt your ears. Mine are howling confirmation this morning...I know, I know, but I was all giddy and didn't use my attenuators.

As I've said before: 300w my derriere...don't get hung up on the numbers 😀

[thodrik]

6 hours ago, Muzz said:

Just to haul this one back on topic, I had a rehearsal yesterday with a band who last all played together 28 years ago - we're going to do a one-off 30th anniversary gig next year, and I took my backline to the rehearsal rooms. Big room, shed-building drummer, guitar through the the PA and a wedge amp/monitor, and lots of late-80s keys. I had the Walkabout through the BF Super Twin, and I was murdering the drummer with the volume at 9 o'clock.

With efficient cabs (or just the one, in this case), a Walkabout can definitely be loud enough to hurt your ears. Mine are howling confirmation this morning...I know, I know, but I was all giddy and didn't use my attenuators.

As I've said before: 300w my derriere...don't get hung up on the numbers 😀

Yepp. I have used the Walkabout with an Ampeg 8x10 on many occasions and through the Mesa 6x10 I bought earlier this year. The Walkabout can be ridiculously loud through a bigger/more efficient cabinet. It has handled open air gigs without any issue whatsoever.

Also slightly on topic, I have barely touched the parametric EQs on the amp in 9 years, other than to try and cut a bit of the sub bass that can dominate the 1x15 combo. 

[Muzz]

And another haul back onto topic: first rehearsal in several months with the Proper Rawk Band. Shedbuilding, Cosy-Powellesque* drummer, two Marshall 100w heads on angled 412s, stoooopidly loud. None of the clever FRFR/In-ears hoohah from the other band(s) - Bass(es) into Walkabout into BF Super Twin. Gain around midday (juuust before it starts to squish), nothing extreme in the EQ, other than my usual -15db at 30Hz cut, Master at 9 o'clock. Massively loud. And I mean massively. If your Walkabout isn't loud enough, it's definitely the cab that's the issue.

I was cursing that I'd forgotten my attenuators, and my ears are howling today. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... 300w my a*se... 😁

Oh, and it sounded absolutely fabulous. 😁

 

* In terms of volume and, erm, brio, rather than talent. Unfortunately...

[Dood]

On 29/09/2018 at 10:46, Al Krow said:

Thanks for that.

But do any amps allow you fully parametric control over the mids or are we getting into Tech 21 Q\Strip or Empress para EQ territory (or at a much more budget level a Zoom MS-60B or B3n)? At which point you may as well stick with an amp that has basic EQ features and deal with EQ'ing via a pedal.

 

On 29/09/2018 at 10:59, Chienmortbb said:

I don't think they do. Semi-parametic is cheap and easy to design, fully parametric is more complex and so takes time to design and is probably four times the number of components. The pedal option is probably the only option to be honest unless you are using some kind of modelling software.

 

The only amplifier I can think of that has 4 bands or Parametric EQ (that in this case has a width control for each band) is the Bergantino B|Amp. It also has an adjustable HPF and (for the acoustic player) a feedback filter too.*

No surprises really that it is my all time favourite amplifier. 

 

*And a compressor. And three types of drive. and a switchable effects loop. All controlled by a wireless pedal.