Thoughts on TC Electronics Rigs

[Linus27]

I play in a 50s and 60s Rock n Roll band and I would describe the tone I aim for as warm, rounded with a little bit of definition/character. I play a lot walking bass lines, Motown type stuff so I need to fill the bottom end but also cut through enough so people can hear the movement to dance to. My usual rig is a Markbass LMIII and 2x Markbass NY112 cabs. I've generally been happy with it but not blown away. My Fender 75 AVRI Jazz has always sounded good to very good depending on the room and occasionally awesome. My Fender 70s RI Precision has sounded a mix of poor to ok and occasionally acceptable. Certainly never amazing.

On Saturday, I got to use my Jazz through one of the old TC Electronics BH500 heads and a TC Electronics 4x10 and it sounded amazing. It was tight, punchy, warm and I loved it and it got me thinking, is it the TC Electronics rig or is it the 4x10 that my ears are liking? I've never been blown away by my Markbass rig, it has always just been effective and functional but lacking in personality, perhaps a bit clinical. I've always wondered If it was the 12" speakers that were letting me down.

I don't want to ditch the Markbass gear and go TC Electronics if this is a poor decision. I dont really know anything about them to be honest. Reliability is key for me as well as I am gigging 3 or 4 times a week. Alternatively, maybe a 4x10 is my answer.

Any thoughts or advise?

[TJ Spicer]

Tight, punchy and warm are the TC characteristics in my book (having owned an RH750, Blacksmith and BH250). Should make more of a difference than a cab change... 

[Al Krow]

If you want warm, rounded with a little bit of definition character then your Markbass rig is going to be that.

Markbass cabs have a reputation for rolling off the high end treble and there's a gap in the EQ in the LM3 in the 2kHz to 5kHz range between the high mids and the treble on the amp which makes it difficult to compensate for this high end roll off. But that is exactly what is producing the "warmer" Markbass sound that many folk like. 

I've played the LM3 based head on my Markbass combo through different cabs and it makes a BIG difference. I'd suggest try doing that, as well as getting a basic EQ pedal to adjust the EQ on your existing rig (there's an EQ effect on a Zoom MS-60B or similar if you have one of those). 

The other way I have managed to tighten up the sound on my Markbass rig for my 50s and 60s band when playing with my Sandberg was to cut the bass EQ just a touch. 

I'd definitely recommend playing with the EQ first to see if that works to tighten up your sound, before changing your rig, and then combine that with a different cab as the next step if the EQ adjustment by itself doesn't get you there. 

(The only TC I've had is the entry level BG250-115 which was fine for the money, but my Markbass combo is definitely a step up from it. BUT I know there is a LOT of love for the higher-end TC amps from fellow BCers). 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Al Krow

[bassfan]

I’ve had TC kit for years, RH450 and now the RH750 using the RS212, 210 and 112 in different combinations and I have to say tight, punchy and warm are definitely what you get. I’ve recently been on a bit of a “tone quest” myself and bought a bergantino 212 which I have to say has changed the tone of my RH750 again to punchier and warmer! I was considering changing the RH750 for something else but for now I’ll stick with it. They are great amps. I’ve not tried the 410 cab but I would imagine it’s pretty good! 

[Lozz196]

It sounds to me that your ears preferred the TC rig. I`m not knocking the Markbass gear that you have, far from it, I`ve had that gear myself, but from your post it appears to me that you really preferred the TC gear. Given that I`d say get that same rig. I ended up with Ashdown through the same sort of circumstances, every time I played through an Ashdown rig I far preferred it to my own, so went and bought some Ashdown gear.

[Linus27]

Thanks for the replies guys, has been really helpful. I've also just remembered that I did an open mic a few months back and the back line was a TC head played through I think a TC 2x12 and the guy using it was playing a Spector and it sounded amazing. Again, very warm and punchy. Just maybe the TC sound is more to my liking. Food for thought.

[fretmeister]

Ive used Mark Bass gear with non Mark Bass cabs with a great result. I think their heads are great but the cabs are a bit lacking.

 

I had the LM2 with some Bergantinos and that was superb. So I'd be looking at cab swapping first. I play a lot of walking stuff - mainly big band with a 20 piece horn section.

I either take a Tecamp Puma 300 or my DG M900 - but always through Barefaced One10 cabs. 1 for rehearsal and 2 for gigs.

 

I'm really impressed with those cabs - amazingly full in the bottom and enough top end to hear it come through. No hiss or fizz as there isn't a tweeter.

 

I never got the chance to try the LM2 with the Barefaced cabs, but I'd be amazed if that didn't do what you wanted. Super light weight too.

[Linus27]

5 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Ive used Mark Bass gear with non Mark Bass cabs with a great result. I think their heads are great but the cabs are a bit lacking.

 

I had the LM2 with some Bergantinos and that was superb. So I'd be looking at cab swapping first. I play a lot of walking stuff - mainly big band with a 20 piece horn section.

I either take a Tecamp Puma 300 or my DG M900 - but always through Barefaced One10 cabs. 1 for rehearsal and 2 for gigs.

 

I'm really impressed with those cabs - amazingly full in the bottom and enough top end to hear it come through. No hiss or fizz as there isn't a tweeter.

 

I never got the chance to try the LM2 with the Barefaced cabs, but I'd be amazed if that didn't do what you wanted. Super light weight too.

To be honest, this was my initial thought and that its the MB cabs that are maybe letting me down tonally. I would love to try my LM3 head through a 4x10 just to compare and see if there is a big difference.

[Linus27]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

If you want warm, rounded with a little bit of definition character then your Markbass rig is going to be that.

Markbass cabs have a reputation for rolling off the high end treble and there's a gap in the EQ in the LM3 in the 2kHz to 5kHz range between the high mids and the treble on the amp which makes it difficult to compensate for this high end roll off. But that is exactly what is producing the "warmer" Markbass sound that many folk like. 

I've played the LM3 based head on my Markbass combo through different cabs and it makes a BIG difference. I'd suggest try doing that, as well as getting a basic EQ pedal to adjust the EQ on your existing rig (there's an EQ effect on a Zoom MS-60B or similar if you have one of those). 

The other way I have managed to tighten up the sound on my Markbass rig for my 50s and 60s band when playing with my Sandberg was to cut the bass EQ just a touch. 

I'd definitely recommend playing with the EQ first to see if that works to tighten up your sound, before changing your rig, and then combine that with a different cab as the next step if the EQ adjustment by itself doesn't get you there. 

(The only TC I've had is the entry level BG250-115 which was fine for the money, but my Markbass combo is definitely a step up from it. BUT I know there is a LOT of love for the higher-end TC amps from fellow BCers). 

Thanks for the input Al. I also cut the bass EQ on my MB rig as its the only way to get a tone I like. For my Jazz, the Bass is 10 o clock, Low Mids is flat or 10 o clock, High Mids to about 2 o clock and high at 12 o clock. Both filters are off. For my Precision, its the same apart from Low Mids are at 9 o clock and High Mids are at 12 o clock.

I'm still not convinced about the MB cabs, I think this may be where my problem lies.

[gary mac]

I loved the MB cabs that I used for a good few years but I really didn't like them with any of the selection of MB amps that I tested them with at the dealers. I settled on a Genz Shuttle 6 and then loved the whole rig. Would still be using that rig today but health issues saw me going for an even more lightweight alternative.

I do have a little TC amp as a spare and for the cost, it's a great little amp. 

From a practical point of view, I wouldn't buy another TC amp, having recently tried to repair one for a customer. It was just not cost effective. 

[Al Krow]

21 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

Thanks for the input Al. I also cut the bass EQ on my MB rig as its the only way to get a tone I like. For my Jazz, the Bass is 10 o clock, Low Mids is flat or 10 o clock, High Mids to about 2 o clock and high at 12 o clock. Both filters are off. For my Precision, its the same apart from Low Mids are at 9 o clock and High Mids are at 12 o clock.

I'm still not convinced about the MB cabs, I think this may be where my problem lies.

You may be right. Unfortunately bass manufacturers rarely give any detail as to the mid points of the EQ of their on board preamp so there is no way (without having some decent testing gear) to easily work out exactly which frequencies you are boosting / cutting. 

If you can get hold of an EQ pedal and just give the 3kHz a little boost to see if that sufficiently counters the high end roll off of the Markbass cab, that might do the trick. 

Otherwise there was a VK 210 MNT in the FS and, from my own experience, your LM3 head will absolutely love being paired with that. 

[Cuzzie]

Without bashing or championing any gear.

One piece gives you joy, the other does not fulfil your sonic needs, but may do if you stick a load of stuff and EQ pedals infront of it to make it potentially sound how you like it, but no guarantee, and an increase in stuff (which you may want).

Monetary situation aside - seems a fairly easy choice

[Al Krow]

7 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Without bashing or championing any gear.

One piece gives you joy, the other does not fulfil your sonic needs, but may do if you stick a load of stuff and EQ pedals infront of it to make it potentially sound how you like it, but no guarantee, and an increase in stuff (which you may want).

Monetary situation aside - seems a fairly easy choice

One EQ pedal = "a load of stuff"?!

If so, I presume you're not using any pedals whatsoever with your rig to get the sound you like?

It seems to me that it's surely better to try a simple fix before recommending someone to change their entire rig? If it doesn't work then, of course, go on to look at other options. Just my tuppence worth on approaching these things.

[chris_b]

I've had both makes (not the cabs) and my preference would be for Markbass. My MB could get a very warm and fat sound but I found the the TC was just bassy, a bit one dimensional.

IMO from Markbass to TC is a sideways move.

I'd keep your amp and put it with a Barefaced Super Compact. That would definitely be taking a big step forward.

[chris_b]

My Markbass LM2 EQ was all tone controls at noon and the 2 filters off, fully anti-clockwise. That was with my Lakland and 2 Aguilar GS112 cabs. A great sound and only sold due to the weight!

[la bam]

just to throw a curve ball in - years ago i switched from a 1x12 to a 4x10 and the whole sound changed. much tighter and defined.

perhaps try the mb head with a tc 4x10 (or another cheaper 4x10) first?

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow nope, I use pedals, you know I do, but could go happily Bass - Amp - Cab, use em because I like em.

Just sounds to me like an EQ pedal is chasing the tail, yep you could bump the frequency, and it may remove the sheet from infront the speakers, but there will still be a massive blanket and duvet sitting over the rest of the rig you have to fight through.

Just going bybthe OP’s words - they have said it’s functional, but not inspiring, a load of opinions will flood, but they nailed a sound with a certain rig, and TC gear works.

Thats about it really.

[Al Krow]

@Cuzzie fairy snuff  

He also said his goal was a tone that is "warm, rounded with a little bit of definition/character". If that's not the definition of the Markbass sound, I don't know what is!

If an EQ pedal gets him there then, great, but otherwise a BF cab, or a VK 210 as a couple of us have suggested (or TKS / Tecamp / Bergantino etc) with his LM3 head could well be just the ticket.

I've played my LM3 head through a variety of cabs and frankly it matches up well to some highly regarded D class heads (e.g. DG M900 and Genzler Magellan 800); the LM3 is a quality piece of kit and very well built. It's only real flaw IMO is its EQ centre points (hence my suggesting an EQ pedal to fix).

(For what its worth none of the D class heads I've played quite have the magic fairy dust of my Mesa M6 but that's a whole different discussion! )

Edited September 25, 2018 by Al Krow

[40hz]

Having owned a LM2 through a NY122 and now using a TC BH550 through a Vanderkley MNT210 (previous TC K210 cabs), I'd say the Markbass stuff was warm but a bit flat dynamically, there wasn't enough 'pop' to the sound for my tastes. My TC rig gave me that crystalline tone and presence that was lacking and even more so when I moved over to the VK cabs.

[Linus27]

22 minutes ago, 40hz said:

Having owned a LM2 through a NY122 and now using a TC BH550 through a Vanderkley MNT210 (previous TC K210 cabs), I'd say the Markbass stuff was warm but a bit flat dynamically, there wasn't enough 'pop' to the sound for my tastes. My TC rig gave me that crystalline tone and presence that was lacking and even more so when I moved over to the VK cabs.

This is exactly how I feel about my MB rig. There is nothing wrong with it but being described as a bit flat dynamically is spot on. It still sounds great, don't get me wrong but again, as you say, it lacks the 'pop' factor.

[Linus27]

55 minutes ago, la bam said:

just to throw a curve ball in - years ago i switched from a 1x12 to a 4x10 and the whole sound changed. much tighter and defined.

perhaps try the mb head with a tc 4x10 (or another cheaper 4x10) first?

This is what I am thinking as I suspect the MB LM3 head is an awesome head and its the 12" speakers that are giving the lack of dynamics. I'm wondering if the smaller, tighter 10" speakers will give me that tighter and more defined tone. I think I'll try a 4x10 like a Vanderkley and go from there.

Just to also add, the way I set the EQ on the TC rig up on Saturday was pretty much the same as how I set my MB LM3 up. I just added a little bit of Spectracomp which tightened and gave a bit more dynamic.

[Lozz196]

It could well be the cabs you know, Markbass cabs do have a high-end roll-off. I`ve always been very impressed when hearing Markbass amps through Barefaced cabs. But saying that, I think @Cuzzie hit it spot on, one set-up you love, the other not so.

[big rob]

I Have been using TC stuff for years, first i had just the RS212 cab and the RH450 head, that was great. Then i added a RS210 and it got better.

Then i got the RH750 and it got even better.

Then i swapped my RH750 and RS212 for a Blacksmith and a RS410 so the rig was 6x10 with the RS210.

recently sold the RS210 and i also purchased 2 x Mark Bass 104HF cabs so was using the blacksmith with the 2 markbass cabs..........result bloody awful, not enough warmth and too clanky for me if that makes sense.

So sold them and now have the blacksmith and just the RS410 and i am not changing anytime soon, yes its heavy but its well worth it.

If i change at all it will only be to another RS / Blacksmith configuration.

 

[Osiris]

Having having extensively gigged both a Mark Bass Little Mark 2 amp and a TC RH450, through my Tecamp 2x12 cab, I found that they are both warm and punchy amps. As others have said, the MB has a great tone with everything set flat, great as in it works well in the mix but isn't very exciting in isolation. The trouble I had with it though - and the reason that I moved it on after 2 or 3 years - was the centre frequencies of the pre-amp. Set flat everything was fine, but when it came to EQ'ing it for a room with difficult acoustics I found there wasn't any control where I wanted it - the bass EQ is voiced at 40 Hz which is handy for cutting low end rumble on wooden floors but there was no control over the audible bass at around 100-200 Hz ish, and I missed that. Likewise at the high end, the treble is voiced at 10Khz which is just too high to be usable in my opinion, for me control over the 4-6 Khz band is much more useful and usable in a live environment. All in my opinion and experience of course. 

The MB was replaced by a TC RH450. Someone is bound to wade in and mention the whole wattage fiasco sooner or later, if they do ignore it, the amp has plenty of power and volume. Moving on... I much preferred the EQ voicing of the TC, it has a 4 band semi-parametric which gives me tons of control right were I wanted it. Sure, you don't have control over the subby lows, but they weren't there obliterating the mix when I used mine. The drive circuit too is very good and adds a great dirty edge to the tone without getting fizzy. Oh, and the built in Spectracomp simply sprinkled fairy dust over everything and made my bass sound great! 

Both great amps, but as a sweeping generalisation I'd say that the MB EQ is more voiced towards studio work and isn't quite so usable on the average pub gig whereas the TC amp has all the control right where you need it down the Kebab & Calculator on a sweaty Saturday night. If you're veering towards the TC rig, I'd say you already have your answer 

[dave_bass5]

4 hours ago, Linus27 said:

This is exactly how I feel about my MB rig. There is nothing wrong with it but being described as a bit flat dynamically is spot on. It still sounds great, don't get me wrong but again, as you say, it lacks the 'pop' factor.

Same here. Ive used MB heads for years, but ive always found they sound better and more lively with a pre amp in front of them. I do think they lack character, or at least one that i like. I doubt ill ever get rid of my MB F1 head, but having tried other heads during the time ive not been compelled to go back to MB except for the fact that i think it looks really cool.

Ive been looking in to the BH550 or BH800 head (also red, liek my F1) and i except ill get one at some point if i keep gigging. I love the smart EQ system. I had it on the Spectradrive and found for the first time i had a musical EQ rather than keeping it mostly flat on the MB heads. might be tempted to pick up a BH250 for non gig situations.

Then again, i have a Q/Strip so EQ isnt really something i need worry about on the head.