Mini Helix - HX Stomp...

[krispn]

It’s pretty straight forward. If your unlikely to use the Native software then it’s not really of any value to you. If it’s something you can integrate into your normal workflow/music making/home rehearsal/practice then it might be worth the cost. I don’t see how it gets much more complicated.

Personally I do all my music rehearsal/practice at home via laptop/headphones and as I noodle on guitar and some keys too this would be quite a tempting deal. I can see how it might not appeal to someone with an already heaving pedal hoard and a couple of existing multi fx units. 

[Al Krow]

@krispn

You've exactly nailed it, mate. 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, krispn said:

Personally I do all my music rehearsal/practice at home via laptop/headphones and as I noodle on guitar and some keys too this would be quite a tempting deal. I can see how it might not appeal to someone with an already heaving pedal hoard and a couple of existing multi fx units. 

Yeh - My pedalboard lives outside with the stuff to go to gigs with. So the native would be quite good to actually explore the options really apart from as I haven't got a full helix, not to put too much in a patch!

[GisserD]

On 13/06/2019 at 19:48, Al Krow said:

Let's face it, how many of us have / will get both Stomp plus Native? Seems a bit pointless to me. 

Looks like most helix owners here at least think it's a usefull addition. I think you vastly underestimate how many people have home/professional reccording setup. And the majority of those would find HX native a valuable addition at a very good price. 

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, GisserD said:

Looks like most helix owners here at least think it's a usefull addition. I think you vastly underestimate how many people have home/professional reccording setup. And the majority of those would find HX native a valuable addition at a very good price. 

Plenty of us think many things are a good idea. Be interesting how many of this "vast" army of bass players you refer to actually get a Stomp + Native, given that there is quite a significant proportion who don't think the less featured HX Edit is worth bothering with, as they prefer to be able to edit patches on the fly. 

It may well be a useful addition, but I'm certainly not going to get religion about it either way. I thought krispn summed up its value to some bass players well in his earlier post. 

[krispn]

 

1 hour ago, GisserD said:

Looks like most helix owners here at least think it's a usefull addition. I think you vastly underestimate how many people have home/professional reccording setup. And the majority of those would find HX native a valuable addition at a very good price. 

 

@Al Krow it looks like you’ve mistook what @GisserD said. 

“Vastly underestimate” is very different  to to suggesting a “vast army of bass players” which GisserD never actually said You enjoy semantics as much as anyone but you’re putting words into his mouth here.  

@Al Krow you made a suggestion earlier in this thread....

“You'd be surprised how many Stomp / Helix LT / Helix Full Fat owners haven't ventured into HX Edit. Why do you think there is a regular stream of Helix's in the FS?“

unless you know a bunch of people who haven’t used the edit software before selling their units this is kinda baseless. I know you might be speaking form personal experience but I’d argue anyone I know with a stomp/hx/hxfx have all used the HX Edit software. Plus it’s weong to suggest you can’t edit on the fly with a stomp.

Again I’m not sure why you think you can’t edit HX stomp on the fly or why line 6 would make a device which needed a pc to edit? The Stomp shares the exact same interface as the big HX just has a smaller screen and fewer knobs. If you haven’t yet mastered how to edit the stomp on the fly it’s about a 10 minute learning curve, possibly quicker with the manual on hand for reference easy and it certainly doesn’t require the software editor it’s just that using the software editor makes things much easier to read on a bigger screen and all a bit more immediate. 

I know you’re a huge fan of the Zoom editor you should give the line 6 a try. You might like it. 

[Woodinblack]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Plenty of us think many things are a good idea. Be interesting how many of this "vast" army of bass players you refer to actually get a Stomp + Native, given that there is quite a significant proportion who don't think the less featured HX Edit is worth bothering with, as they prefer to be able to edit patches on the fly. 

You keep saying about HX Edit, like it is somehow related to native, it really isn't.

TBH i have HX edit but don't really use it much as it is simple enough to edit on the fly. Native however gives me something I cant do any other way, a completely new helix that is actually more powerful than my HX effects.

 

 

[krispn]

This might be useful...

[Al Krow]

@krispn - nope not my point at all that you can't edit the Stomp on the fly, of course you can! My point was simply that I prefer to edit multifx patches (on Zoom and now Helix) using a decent PC editor. ToneLib transformed my workflow with my Zoom multis.

So I will be using HX Edit with my Stomp and I'm happy with that decision. If folk want to get Native on top, please don't let me stand in your way.

@Woodinblack my linking of the Native and Helix is based on this article I came across which was very helpful: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/line-6-helix-native

In it they made a comment:

"Operationally, Native and HX Edit are very similar, with the obvious technical differences that Helix Native is both editor and processor, and works as a plug-in within your DAW host, while HX Edit is just an editor and functions as a stand-alone piece of software."

[krispn]

Ahh its just when you said people prefer to be able to edit on the fly I misunderstood what you were meaning.

 

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

On 14/06/2019 at 18:36, krispn said:

Personally I do all my music rehearsal/practice at home via laptop/headphones and as I noodle on guitar and some keys too this would be quite a tempting deal. 

Me too - I currently use Amplitube v3 on my Mac, but every time I start it now I get a message telling me that it won't be compatible with the next version of OS-X, so Helix Native is a tempting alternative.  

Am I right in thinking that Native is a plugin only, so I'll need a host of some sort?  I do have Logic but perhaps Mainstage might be a better option, unless there's other stuff around that fits the bill?

Also, for anyone who has both, is there a simple way of syncing patches between Native and HX Stomp (or any Helix for that matter) or is it a case of storing patches and importing them into the device?

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Gottastopbuyinggear
Fat fingers...

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 In it they made a comment:

"Operationally, Native and HX Edit are very similar, with the obvious technical differences that Helix Native is both editor and processor, and works as a plug-in within your DAW host, while HX Edit is just an editor and functions as a stand-alone piece of software."

Yes, that is true, operationally the workflow is the same (other than an instant change in sound), although that isn't a surprise, as they have the same workflow as the full helix and helix rack.  

But that is not how you refer to them. Using a helix stomp and HX edit doesn't give you what you get from a full helix (or LT or Rack, or Native), as you keep saying, which is misleading. It doesn't give you any more functionality over the stomp on its own, it just gives you another way of editing it.

I don't have a stomp so I have no idea how easy or not it is to edit, I know the HX effects and Helix LT are pretty easy to edit, but they both have more buttons, so I don't know how that translates. 

 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Gottastopbuyinggear said:

Me too - I currently use Amplitube v3 on my Mac, but every time I start it now I get a message telling me that it won't be compatible with the next version of OS-X, so Helix Native is a tempting alternative.  

I used to use amplitube 3 all the time on my mac, but haven't been using it much because I am using Bias Amp 2, which is pretty wonderful. If I wasn't using that I would have gone for native. I might still go for native as the effects are probably better,  although helix has nothing like the same customisation options of Bias Amp

1 hour ago, Gottastopbuyinggear said:

Am I right in thinking that Native is a plugin only, so I'll need a host of some sort?  I do have Logic but perhaps Mainstage might be a better option, unless there's other stuff around that fits the bill?

Mainstage is a good option but native also has its own host. If in doubt, anyone can download the 14 day trial, which runs just as the full thing until it times out.

1 hour ago, Gottastopbuyinggear said:

Also, for anyone who has both, is there a simple way of syncing patches between Native and HX Stomp (or any Helix for that matter) or is it a case of storing patches and importing them into the device?

Native / Helix / LT have the same patches so you can just send them around. Stomp and HX Effects have stripped down patches, so you have to be careful to make sure they aren't too complex.

[Al Krow]

25 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Yes, that is true, operationally the workflow is the same (other than an instant change in sound), although that isn't a surprise, as they have the same workflow as the full helix and helix rack.  

But that is not how you refer to them. Using a helix stomp and HX edit doesn't give you what you get from a full helix (or LT or Rack, or Native), as you keep saying, which is misleading. It doesn't give you any more functionality over the stomp on its own, it just gives you another way of editing it.

I don't have a stomp so I have no idea how easy or not it is to edit, I know the HX effects and Helix LT are pretty easy to edit, but they both have more buttons, so I don't know how that translates. 

Slightly amusing that we're having this discussion when you don't have a Stomp and I don't have Native: clearly two real experts on their overlap then! 😂 We should have @CameronJ jumping in, who has both.

Apologies if my use of language was less than precise - not the first or likely the last time, I'm sure! 

It's the operational workflow that is the only real interest point for me and their similarities in this respect is what I was trying to get across, and also why I don't feel any particular need to get Native as a bolt on to my Stomp & HX Edit. Of course, if Native is going to be useful for what someone is doing, then they absolutely should go for it.

[Woodinblack]

27 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Slightly amusing that we're having this discussion when you don't have a Stomp and I don't have Native: clearly two real experts on their overlap then! 😂 We should have @CameronJ jumping in, who has both.

Apologies if my use of language was less than precise - not the first or likely the last time, I'm sure! 

I don't have a stomp, although I have used all the others of the series, although I am aware the limitations of the stomp over full helix (native / helix / LT). I do have a HX Effects, which has its own limitations.

27 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

It's the operational workflow that is the only real interest point for me and their similarities in this respect is what I was trying to get across, and also why I don't feel any particular need to get Native as a bolt on to my Stomp & HX Edit. Of course, if Native is going to be useful for what someone is doing, then they absolutely should go for it.

Indeed - but I was iterating it as it may be confusing for other people reading, as you keep infering that HX edit and a stomp is the same as Native (and by its nature, a full helix), which of course it isn't, even if it may look the same on the screen.

Obviously we have different needs, and if you don't use a computer for playing or recording, native would be no use to you unless you were going to take a computer to a gig (which I have done before for other reasons, but always am hesitant to do), or if you practice in the house with your effects pedals, again, probably less use.

For those of us currently using the computer for practice or recording (myself included), it is a very compelling option especially as the price takes it down into the low end of the other software for doing that. 

 

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Obviously we have different needs, and if you don't use a computer for playing or recording, native would be no use to you unless you were going to take a computer to a gig (which I have done before for other reasons, but always am hesitant to do), or if you practice in the house with your effects pedals, again, probably less use.

For those of us currently using the computer for practice or recording (myself included), it is a very compelling option especially as the price takes it down into the low end of the other software for doing that. 

Thanks Woody. The above are two very relevant points, from my perspective. 

The first i.e. not using a PC in rehearsals or gigs and using actual pedals at home is exactly where I am coming from, which would indicate "no" to Native. 

However if you are also saying that Native can take the place of our existing DAWs eg Ableton or Reaper then that's something I, for one, wasn't aware of and would change my view of its usefulness (to me, anyway) entirely. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

However if you are also saying that Native can take the place of our existing DAWs eg Ableton or Reaper then that's something I, for one, wasn't aware of and would change my view of its usefulness (to me, anyway) entirely. 

No, native is 'just' an effects pedal, so you would record a raw guitar / bass straight into the DAW, and all the processing would be done by native. So effectively once you had recorded it you would set up your guitar sound.

[krispn]

@Al Krow having tried both the zoom software and the HX edit do you find one preferable to the other? 

[Al Krow]

20 minutes ago, krispn said:

@Al Krow having tried both the zoom software and the HX edit do you find one preferable to the other? 

So far no question that ToneLib (for Zoom) knocks HX Edit out the park for ease of use. But maybe that view will change as I spend more time with HX Edit. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Al Krow

[krispn]

That’s quite interesting! What stands out as making it better? Would you say it’s your familiarity with the zoom which makes it easier or do you find the zoom more intuitive? 

*I should say with the zoom I mean ToneLib

Edited June 16, 2019 by krispn

[Al Krow]

If you check out the Zoom B1X-4 / B3n patch idea thread you can see that the basic ToneLib layout is very intuitive for each individual effect, with ready embedded software explanations on hand for each parameter. Add easy drag and drop features and you have something that provides a really 'accessible' and easy workflow - that makes creating and editing patches both a doddle and a lot of fun. 

It's just such a darned shame that Zoom are limiting their offering to the sub £130 multfx budget end of the market. If they would iron out a few minor niggles (eg low level 'digital noise' underneath the notes) and add a little more capability / DSP, I'm sure there are many Zoom fanboys (and girls!) who would readily part with another £45 to £70 on top. 

I'm sure with time I may come to view the Helix interface similarly. But not necessarily. You will have seen Jimfist's much more articulate post on why he is much happier with the Zoom interface than that of much more capable multifx, due to the easier workflow. And he is someone who has spent many many hours tweaking multifx pedals over many years. 

[Al Krow]

If you check out the Zoom B1X-4 / B3n patch idea thread you can see that the basic ToneLib layout is very intuitive for each individual effect, with ready embedded software explanations on hand for each parameter. Add easy drag and drop features and you have something that provides a really 'accessible' and easy workflow - that makes creating and editing patches both a doddle and a lot of fun. 

It's just such a darned shame that Zoom are limiting their offering to the sub £130 multfx budget end of the market. If they would iron out a few minor niggles (eg low level 'digital noise' underneath the notes) and add a little more capability / DSP, I'm sure there are many Zoom fanboys (and girls!) who would readily part with another £45 to £70 on top. 

I'm sure with time I may come to view the Helix interface similarly. But not necessarily. You will have seen Jimfist's much more articulate post on why he is much happier with the Zoom interface than that of much more capable multifx, due to the easier workflow. And he is someone who has spent many many hours tweaking multifx pedals over many years. 

[krispn]

Have you tried hx edit yet? It’s pretty easy too

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, krispn said:

Have you tried hx edit yet? It’s pretty easy too

Yes. But early days. Ask me again in a few months...

In the meantime, you're clearly on the verge of getting another Stomp or Native yourself, I can tell!

[krispn]

Well I can tell you’re in no rush to fire up your stomp if you’re saying a few months. Probably getting to grips with all those other pc editors right 😀

Yeah I’ll get a stomp sooner or later as the band have now committed to full in ears (importantly the drummer has!)

But you know me I’m one of those impulsive bassist’s who insist’s on using new gear pretty much asap!

Edited June 17, 2019 by krispn