What do audiences really want from the bass player?

[Monkey Steve]

15 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I just can't agree on this one buddy. Forget 7 Nation, perhaps a bad example (of a song we play with bass leading to great audience reaction).

As I said, take the bass out of three pub classics like Living on a Prayer, Jet - Do you want to be my girl? or Sweet Child and see if it's anything close to the same?

Are you really saying it makes no difference to audience enjoyment if the bass isn't playing on these (and there's no bass-line substitution being done with octave down on guitar or keys)?

I guess what I'm saying is that bass-lines matter. And they are integral to pop and rock.

I think I'm somewhere between the two - the punters will notice if the bass isn't there.  But only because the song doesn't sound right.  So they might not know or care if the bass player isn't on stage, but they will notice that the song doesn't sound right.

So in answer to the thread's central question, what the audience wants is for the bass player to play the bass lines correctly. How that happens is something they're happy to leave as none of their concern

[chris_b]

I had no expectations when I started playing bass.I just wanted to be in a band and I could play bass better than guitar. Then I saw John McVie playing with John Mayall and my future was sealed.

Most audiences don't hear, understand or care about the bass and that doesn't matter. Some do, though. I regularly have people (not always bass players) come up to ask about my gear, style of playing and influences. It's nice when people notice, but the one person that always has to notice and you always have to impress is the band leader. If the band likes you then you're in business. Don't get confused, while they'll expect a good sound from you they are really only interested in the lines you play and how well you play them.

If you can lock with the drummer, play good lines and make the band feel good, then that's your job is done. I did a dep with a regular band last week, with a (very good) dep drummer, and we nailed it from the first number. The band leader later went on to Facebook thanking the two of us for making the band sound so good.

If your playing has made the band sound good then the audience will always notice that.

[drTStingray]

25 minutes ago, Len_derby said:

Some interesting insights here.

My thoughts are that any bass player who is concerned about being unappreciated, misunderstood or overlooked has possibly chosen the wrong instrument 😊

I disagree with this completely. I've been playing bass since the early 70s and started on the basis of appreciation of what players like Andy Fraser, Jack Bruce, Larry Taylor and Leo Lyons were doing - all of those players were fully appreciated in their respective bands and were far from hidden in a rumbling morass of sub frequencies. So I was someone who actively wanted to play bass. I've met one or two people since who are astonished at this, but there again they came from the guitar angle and also had no concept of what anyone other than a guitarist, drummer or singer's roles are in a 'rock' band. 

The bottom line is any GOOD musician is likely to be appreciated in any setting - be it pubs or wherever. So bass has lots of roles in musical settings and those who would confine it to a sub frequency morass have failed to understand most of the functions it performs. Of course there's a difference if you're playing say Neil Young or Leonard Cohen covers to say a wedding function band playing dance music (or even playing danceable music in a pub). 

A lot of 1960s nonsense in terms of ideas has been brought forward - one of which (and possibly true then in some selected cases) that the bass player drew the short straw and was somehow a failed guitarist. 

And part of the marketing of bass guitars in the late 50s was along the lines of 'guitarists - double your income by playing bass guitar' - that some people like Carol Kaye did is fact, of course!!

if you're melting into the background and you don't like it you may be in the wrong band or need to develop playing ability to stand out a little more (if that's what you want to do)....

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by drTStingray

[Guest MoJo]

1 hour ago, Marvin said:

I’m not particularly interested in what a bass player is up to when I go to watch a band, so I can’t imagine anyone being interested in what I do.

 I saw The Winery Dogs with Billy Sheehan playing bass a couple of years ago...I spent the gig in awe of Richie Kotzen. Sheehan was brilliant with all his tapping etc, but Kotzen stole the show

Very true and Sheehan's solo was needless and too long

[Mykesbass]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Really?! You're clearly playing at different gigs to me. Just start the bass riff to 7 Nation Army unaccompanied and see if anyone notices!

But that's a guitar part.

[Muzz]

15 minutes ago, MoJo said:

Very true and Sheehan's solo was needless and too long

Like 99.9% of bass solos...

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[mart3442]

If someone comes up to me after a show and tells me I played great and they aren't a Bassplayer, I assume I've overplayed. If anyone comes up to me and tells me the band sounded great, then I've done my job. Thats all I want  the audience to expect.....

Edited October 5, 2018 by mart3442

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

I can't help but feel that the question is a bit like asking what cinema goers want from the editing suite.

Someone somewhere obsesses over the technology and techniques to make a quality cut, but most viewers neither know nor care about the process. Mainly, we just want to see a good film.

Or perhaps closer what cinema goers expect from the main support actors / actresses?

[MacDaddy]

4 hours ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

Um, do you mean Steve Harris? 😮

Edit: referring to MacDaddy's post.

[Cuzzie]

No one seemed to care when Metallica edited out the whole of the bass line on the And Justice for All album.

Seeet child of mine, people care way more about the guitar riff, if you never did the bass bit afterwards I reckon nearly all people would not care a jot

Jet - the Bass player can’t even get the name of the song right, what hope do the audience have?!

Aside from the obvious big names, a whole heap of bass players won’t know too many others who perform their craft, so if they don’t know or recognise, what hope do we hold for the audience

Edited October 5, 2018 by Cuzzie

[Geek99]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

I'd like to know who this Sharon is that keeps hanging around my gigs 

Never there when you are though, is she ? Hmm

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

No one seemed to care when Metallica edited out the whole of the bass line on the And Justice for All album.

Seeet child of mine, people care way more about the guitar riff, if you never did the bass bit afterwards I reckon nearly all people would care a jot

Jet - the Bass player can’t even get the name of the song right, what hope do the audience have?!

Aside from the obvious big names, a whole heap of bass players won’t know too many others who perform their craft, so if they don’t know or recognise, what hope do we hold for the audience

Oh dear.

Let's make this easy.

Two identical covers bands A and B play Sweet Child, Jet and Bon Jovi except that band A has no bassist.

Happy to bet whatever sum you want with any disheartened bassist on this thread who thinks that audiences don't notice or care about the bass line and that their musical existence is actually pretty pointless and superfluous 😂, that there will be any typical pub audience in the UK who will prefer band A (no bassist) over band B (competent bassist playing the bass lines well).

Any takers?

[MacDaddy]

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow as long as the bassist is playing the correct Jet bass song.........

What if band A has a keys player.........

What you are talking about is a full band playing a full band song, of course (unless it’s acoustic, no cajon drum etc.) all parts will merge together and give a fuller sound, that’s blindingly obvious.

What about the other 2 points?

[Geek99]

Unfollow 

[peteb]

Punters go to see bands (or at a push singers or occasionally guitarists). The important thing is that they like the band rather than the bass player or any other individual musician (see above proviso about singers and guitar players). 

If you stand at the back and play perfect, consise basslines without an unnecessary note then the average punter will probably not notice you. But if that works for the band then it doesn't matter. 

If you want to get more attention from the audience then make sure that you look the part, move about a bit, interact with the crowd and the rest of the band, maybe even throw in the odd lick where you can get away with it. You will find that a lot more punters will notice you (hopefully in a good way)! 

Edited October 5, 2018 by peteb

[uk_lefty]

My band won't take a gig if I'm unavailable. Same for the drummer and singer though 

On Saturday night we are gigging without one of the two guitarists.

So the band knows the value of bass being played properly... The two guitarists and the singer all own basses but won't play to replace me on a gig.

I think the audience want me to lock in with the drummer, keep the beat moving, and not mess up so many times!

If anyone ever says anything after the gig they either enjoyed the band as a whole unit or they're trying to impress someone else by talking to me about "bass" thereby demonstrating a level of knowledge of how a rock band works beyond the average man in the street.

Edited October 5, 2018 by uk_lefty

[Al Krow]

23 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

@Al Krow as long as the bassist is playing the correct Jet bass song.........

What if band A has a keys player.........

What you are talking about is a full band playing a full band song, of course (unless it’s acoustic, no cajon drum etc.) all parts will merge together and give a fuller sound, that’s blindingly obvious.

What about the other 2 points?

In point of fact I don't really care if the bass lines are played well by a keys player or a bass player; but as a matter of fact predominantly bands have bass players rather than keys players handling the bass lines - any good reason for that, or just a coincidence? I'd actually say that ghost notes, slap, etc all play their part in the bass being preferred for bass lines over keys - bass is an inherently more percussive instrument than keys.

I did ask how many of the worlds top 1000 bands ever have not had a bass player. I can name JUST one that would be in my top 1000 ("the Doors"). How many of your top 1000 bands don't have a bass player? If you can genuinely get to 10%, I'll be very impressed.

But I think we (and I hope everyone else) are finally agreed that:

1) bass lines are important for most pop and rock songs

2) most bands use a bass player (rather than a keys player) to play the bass line

3) remove the bass player from the set (or the keys player for the minority of bands that use keys to do the bass), audiences will notice and care BIG time.

Hooray! So 90 posts into this thread, we can all relax and get back to playing bass secure in the knowledge that if we don't turn up to the next gig and there's no one to take our place, it will make a difference.

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Al Krow

[Muzz]

1) Nope, not at all: only a tiny, tiny percentage of bass lines are recognisable by the 'audience', and an awful lot of songs could be played with root notes and no-one would notice

2) In pub rock bands, possibly, but in music in general? Nope.

3) Again, that completely depends on genre, gig and audience. I've seen a gig where the bass player had a total rig failure, the guitard cranked up the bottom end from his rig and they got away with it. I went to see Cadillac Three recently, and presumed because on their vids there's just drums, lap steel and guitar/vocals they'd have a bassist live. Nope. They were epic.

[Osiris]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I just can't agree on this one buddy. Forget 7 Nation, perhaps a bad example (of a song we play with bass leading to great audience reaction).

As I said, take the bass out of three pub classics like Living on a Prayer, Jet - Do you want to be my girl? or Sweet Child and see if it's anything close to the same?

Are you really saying it makes no difference to audience enjoyment if the bass isn't playing on these (and there's no bass-line substitution being done with octave down on guitar or keys)?

I guess what I'm saying is that bass-lines matter. And they are integral to pop and rock.

 

2 hours ago, Osiris said:

... we would notice and we would feel that the song suffers as a result if the bass was to not play on most of our sets. But I doubt that many in the audience would - and that's the point I'm trying to make. They might be vaguely aware that something doesn't sound quite right but they probably won't know what's amiss, nor really care. 

... We care, they don't...

 

All aboard the @Al Krow magic roundabout once more 

In my experience, the audience are usually more concerned about what they're having to drink next rather than the presence and quality - or not - of any low frequencies emanating from the band. 

[dmccombe7]

Did the Doors not use a bass player for live work occasionally. ?

Tangerine Dream the only other i can think of on my fav bands.

That's a bit of a struggle to think of any tho. Could make for an interesting thread Al Krow.

Dave

 

 

[dmccombe7]

This thread is surprising me quite a bit. Most audiences i've played to in rock venues are generally interested in the full band thing. Don't get me wrong i've been in pub venues watching a band where people couldn't care less and were more interested in chatting and drinking.

Would agree the bassist generally isn't the front man and only rare cases where he is the star of the band Geddy, Gene Simmons Mark King being a few examples but they are relatively rare.

My own attitude when a band is on is that i want to watch and hear them.

Dave

[EliasMooseblaster]

4 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Did the Doors not use a bass player for live work occasionally. ?

I believe they had a session player in for the studio albums (none other than Jerry Scheff played on LA Woman, their last album before Morrison died). Most of the live footage I've seen, it's Manzarek's left hand on a separate bass keyboard.

Another more contemporary example is the Matt Schofield Trio. Jonny Henderson has a similar setup to Ray Manzarek. Admittedly the band is mostly a vehicle for Schofield's superb guitar playing, but I must admit I was not distracted by the absence of a dedicated bass guitar or double bass player when I saw them.

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, Muzz said:

1) Nope, not at all: only a tiny, tiny percentage of bass lines are recognisable by the 'audience', and an awful lot of songs could be played with root notes and no-one would notice

2) In pub rock bands, possibly, but in music in general? Nope.

3) Again, that completely depends on genre, gig and audience. I've seen a gig where the bass player had a total rig failure, the guitard cranked up the bottom end from his rig and they got away with it. I went to see Cadillac Three recently, and presumed because on their vids there's just drums, lap steel and guitar/vocals they'd have a bassist live. Nope. They were epic.

This thread is about pub (and function) pop and rock bands...not music in general. I've corrected my earlier point (2) in case somehow folk had missed that! 

11 minutes ago, Osiris said:

All aboard the @Al Krow magic roundabout once more 

In my experience, the audience are usually more concerned about what they're having to drink next rather than the presence and quality - or not - of any low frequencies emanating from the band. 

I'm very amused that you've spent so much time over the past 18 months trying to make out that a single pedal makes all the difference to your sound when you don't believe that you being there in the first place makes any difference at all! 😂 Clearly time to put your bass down and get back into the garden and do something that is going to be appreciated 😛

But seriously if bass players didn't matter to audiences and, by extension, to the bands which they are part of, they wouldn't exist. 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Al Krow