What do audiences really want from the bass player?

[Japhet]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

This thread is about pub (and function) pop and rock bands...not music in general. I've corrected my earlier point (2) in case somehow folk had missed that! 

I'm very amused that you've spent so much time over the past 18 months trying to make out that a single pedal makes all the difference to your sound when you don't believe that you being there in the first place makes any difference at all! 😂 Clearly time to put your bass down and get back into the garden and do something that is going to be appreciated 😛

But seriously if bass players didn't matter to audiences and, by extension, to the bands which they are part of, they wouldn't exist. 

 

The point being that a whole load of people don't know what the bass does, but would sure as hell miss it if it wasn't there. I also think that we, as bassists, often search for the right sound for ourselves but it makes very little difference to a large percentage of the people we play to.

[discreet]

5 minutes ago, Japhet said:

The point being that a whole load of people don't know what the bass does, but would sure as hell miss it if it wasn't there. I also think that we, as bassists, often search for the right sound for ourselves but it makes very little difference to a large percentage of the people we play to.

As usual I try various different basses in a new band, there generally being one that is more suitable....

Singer: Why have you got all those different bass guitars? They sound exactly the same.

[Al Krow]

Just now, discreet said:

As usual I try various different basses in a new band, there generally being one that is more suitable....

Singer: Why have you got all those different bass guitars? They sound exactly the same.

For sure  My band failed to notice when I took in a 5 string bass instead of my usual 4. And as for noticing something as subtle as compression hahahahaha.

But they sure as heck would notice if I wasn't there.

[The59Sound]

A good show. If you can entertain an audience, you're a good bass player - regardless of skill. 

[chris_b]

9 minutes ago, discreet said:

As usual I try various different basses in a new band, there generally being one that is more suitable....

Singer: Why have you got all those different bass guitars? They sound exactly the same.

On a gig, I was chatting to the drummer, who is also a bass player, about the differences I was finding between my P and J basses and he said "Well, I can't hear much difference between them. You're making them sound pretty much the same!"

I've checked back over various live recordings and unfortunately, he's right!

I'm not sure I wanted to hear that. How was I hearing myself so wrong. Made me wonder if I knew anything about my sound at all?

[drTStingray]

Aren't we being a bit condescending and dismissive of the general populace assuming they haven't a clue what the bass does? After all everyone from a young age is accustomed to having a knob called Bass on most sound reproducing equipment which can be twiddled - and even the daftest of people know what effect turning it up has. 

So in a band most people assume the 'bassist' plays the bass. Granted that these days there seem to be drummers and sound engineers in cahoots to make it sound like the drummer plays the bass - in fact to make the drummer the most prominent of the whole thing sometimes it seems 😂😀

But seriously, I don't believe most people are unaware of the bass - that's why it should be nicely prominent in the mix, the notes should be clear (so as to provide the link between melody, harmony, rythmn etc etc) - and should not just be a subterranean amorphous wash of noise at the lower end... 

Edited October 5, 2018 by drTStingray

[ambient]

9 minutes ago, chris_b said:

On a gig, I was chatting to the drummer, who is also a bass player, about the differences I was finding between my P and J basses and he said "Well, I can't hear much difference between them. You're making them sound pretty much the same!"

I've checked back over various live recordings and unfortunately, he's right!

I'm not sure I wanted to hear that. How was I hearing myself so wrong. Made me wonder if I knew anything about my sound at all?

I read an interview with Sting. He said that he could be playing a cricket bat (might have been baseball bat) with strings attached, once it goes through the pa no one would notice anyway.

[Al Krow]

27 minutes ago, chris_b said:

On a gig, I was chatting to the drummer, who is also a bass player, about the differences I was finding between my P and J basses and he said "Well, I can't hear much difference between them. You're making them sound pretty much the same!"

I've checked back over various live recordings and unfortunately, he's right!

I'm not sure I wanted to hear that. How was I hearing myself so wrong. Made me wonder if I knew anything about my sound at all?

Chris 100% agree. We spend a lot of time on our "sound" and on gear because it's fun and we love doing so. Nothing wrong with that, it's out passion. But it's mostly pretty marginal stuff (as you've just found) and we mostly don't spend enough time on things that make for being a really good bass player which both our band mates and audiences would appreciate. 

I've resolved not to waste too much time going forward on stuff no one is going to notice (eg very subtle effects etc) and focus on things that do matter (the more "in your face" stuff). Those are exactly the things I thought I had set out in my OP. 

I guess I wasn't expecting the barrage of despondency from my fellow bassists suffering from a collective existential crisis of not knowing or understanding what it is about our beloved craft that audiences not only notice, but LOVE. 

Come on peeps! Bass is just GREAT and audiences love great live bands, almost all of whom have excellent bass players for very good reason (and it's not because they're charities)! 😎 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Al Krow

[fleabag]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

My thoughts on playing bass in a typical pub gig is that our audience is not going to notice:

• what kind of bass we're playing (other than it's NOT a Fender) 
• whether the modulation e.g. tremolo or flange is from a cheap MS-60B or a significantly more expensive L6H-Stomp / Eventide H9
• they probably won't even notice whether we're playing 4 or 5 strings (!) 
• and don't even get me started on compression 😂

 

 

 

Agreed.

Only other musicians ( and mainly bass players ) would even care.

[dmccombe7]

25 minutes ago, chris_b said:

On a gig, I was chatting to the drummer, who is also a bass player, about the differences I was finding between my P and J basses and he said "Well, I can't hear much difference between them. You're making them sound pretty much the same!"

I've checked back over various live recordings and unfortunately, he's right!

I'm not sure I wanted to hear that. How was I hearing myself so wrong. Made me wonder if I knew anything about my sound at all?

Our singer records all our rehearsals or most of it. I've listened to the recordings albiet on his mobile and using headphones with my laptop i can barely tell the difference. The guitarist reckons the P/J bass has more depth than my J but he's a bassist in another band so that doesn't really count. 

I'm at the point i prefer playing my Jazz bass and that's gonna be the goto bass for this band. If not much difference in tone out front i'll play the bass i prefer and i'm most comfortable with.

Dave

[PatrickJ]

25 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Aren't we being a bit condescending and dismissive of the general populace assuming they haven't a clue what the bass does? 

No!

At least not when the context has been set as your generic cider guzzling pub punter.

We're not debating the low end connoisseur who may choose to attend a show where the bass is a prominent instrument , a Vulfpeck or Marcus Miller gig for example.

😁😁

[51m0n]

Try being in a an instrumental band chaps. All of a sudden the audience can see and hear loads more about the band, its a really weird phenomenon. Seriously in all the years I played behind a front person I think someone mentioned my playing about three times, always other bassists. In my current band we are always all getting compliments. I can't really explain why, but I rather like it

[uk_lefty]

46 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

subterranean amorphous wash of noise 

My new job description

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow you have to look at the question and the group you have posted it to.

Everyone here knows the importance of not just bass, but balance working a band.

The question is phrased negatively, hence you will get negative responses, so it should come as no surprise.

I personally agree with @drTStingray I think the audience know exactly what’s going on, maybe some wont know ‘specifics’.........

Also as many people have said its genre specific

[Al Krow]

"Tell me what you want, what you really really want?"

How is that a negative Q dear @Cuzzie?

And if you look back at the OP there were like 7 or 8 things I'd identified that audiences would react positively to.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Al Krow

[petebassist]

After every gig I crowd-surf off the stage over the adoring bass-loving fans, then get cornered for half an hour to sign autographs and do selfies, then I'm invariably dragged off by a bunch of bass-loving groupies for a champagne fueled after show party - what's the problem here!

 

[Osiris]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

I guess I wasn't expecting the barrage of despondency from my fellow bassists suffering from a collective existential crisis of not knowing or understanding what it is about our beloved craft that audiences not only notice, but LOVE. 

 

Not sure if that's at least partially aimed at me but while my comments may ostensibly be despondent, they are an honest and realistic appraisal of typical the pub audiences I have been playing to since the 80's. Yes, certainly some notice what we're doing but in my experience they are very few and far between. As bass players we may not be comfortable with this especially once we factor in the endless hours and amounts of money we've sank into our paying and gear over the years, we want them to appreciate it as much as we do. But invariably they don't. 

The counterpoint to your position is that you risk overestimating your own importance as far as the punters are concerned. To them you're just a bloke in the corner of the pub playing a guitar 

 

[fretmeister]

2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Aren't we being a bit condescending and dismissive of the general populace assuming they haven't a clue what the bass does? After all everyone from a young age is accustomed to having a knob called Bass on most sound reproducing equipment which can be twiddled - and even the daftest of people know what effect turning it up has. 

So in a band most people assume the 'bassist' plays the bass. Granted that these days there seem to be drummers and sound engineers in cahoots to make it sound like the drummer plays the bass - in fact to make the drummer the most prominent of the whole thing sometimes it seems 😂😀

But seriously, I don't believe most people are unaware of the bass - that's why it should be nicely prominent in the mix, the notes should be clear (so as to provide the link between melody, harmony, rythmn etc etc) - and should not just be a subterranean amorphous wash of noise at the lower end... 

“I’ve met the man in the street, and he’s a.....”

 

Sid Viscous 

 

 

[Bluewine]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

For sure  My band failed to notice when I took in a 5 string bass instead of my usual 4. And as for noticing something as subtle as compression hahahahaha.

But they sure as heck would notice if I wasn't there.

I've been in the same band for the past 8 years. On stage I'm up front with our 2 guitarists. I play a lot of different cool classic and vintage bass guitars. They've never asked about any of my cool bass guitars. They don't even know that I've performed wireless for the past 8 years.

 

Oh, by the way, I'm going to start cutting my own hair.

 

Blue

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Osiris said:

Not sure if that's at least partially aimed at me but while my comments may ostensibly be despondent, they are an honest and realistic appraisal of typical the pub audiences I have been playing to since the 80's. Yes, certainly some notice what we're doing but in my experience they are very few and far between. As bass players we may not be comfortable with this especially once we factor in the endless hours and amounts of money we've sank into our paying and gear over the years, we want them to appreciate it as much as we do. But invariably they don't. 

The counterpoint to your position is that you risk overestimating your own importance as far as the punters are concerned. To them you're just a bloke in the corner of the pub playing a guitar 

 

Definitely not directed at you buddy; more the general overflowing of angst from our fellow BC'ers earlier in this thread along the lines of "feck - I'm not sure that the audience even knows what a bass is let alone cares what it's bringing to the party; and even if they did, they wouldn't be bothered about it". 

Tosh.

Just one example - imagine a Bruno Mars show with no bassist. You can't. Bass is so integral to a great sound for him and to pretty much almost all my favourite pop and rock bands.

And nope I'm not the bloke in the corner of the pub playing the guitar who is happy to hide himself away like some Norman no-mates avoiding all eye-contact with band mates and the audience, but part of a lively band who are prepared to entertain our audiences. We have fun and so do they. Surely that's the whole point?

 

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow I did read the OP, but OK, to put it plainly, most of the statements about likes and dislikes are barn door obvious and actually applicable to the whole band, not just bass. Volume, cohesion. 

Dead time is nowt to do with just bass, but if your front person has charisma, so called ‘dead time’ becomes a non entity.

Interesting bass lines - well if we have established that they barely listen to the bass, then the latest pentatonic lick with a gozillion hammer on’s will be missed easily. Probably no one has had a great deal of people say, “shame on you, you only played the root note”. Similarly have people had lots of people say, “Hey man, you bass lines are really interesting!”

Lastly, the other parts are just a comparator between effects is like a who’s who of effects and justifying having them. You say they would not notice a zoom or an H9 difference, if at all, but they would definitely notice a FI, even if all parameters were set about the same?

So essentially - it is saying to my mind anyway.

Does the punter know the difference between a well balanced and practices sounding band versus a sloppy mushy goo.

Probably, unless they are slaughtered and just wanna yell Sweet Caroline

[krispn]

I don’t think the audience wants anything from a bass player in a regular gigging pub band/covers band.

 

I think an audience would want a band to be tight and play songs that they like/expect of the venue. I think they want a few surprises I.e. a few covers in a different style to the original - something they recognise but is a nice sonic surprise. 

The point relating to which pedal or bass or amp etc. will likely not be something the punters care for especially the more booze they’ve had. In fact I propose they certainly won’t understand why you insist they get off your stage, don’t touch your tuning pegs or spill their pint on your pedal board or why you won’t let them sing. 

What this post does is in a roundabout way is suggest we celebrate what we do and why people may love us for doing it. The reality is most people won’t really know what we’re doing but they’re enjoying what the band are doing as a unit. If there is a sing along bass line of course they’re gonna sing along. Play Chelsea Dagger and they’ll sing along. Play Brown Eyed Girl and they might sing along. Play Ring of Fire....they won’t sing the bass. Play Sweet Home Alabama... they won’t sing the bass. However play Ring of Fire and the reason they’re stomping or dancing is the steady pulse. Play Sweet Home and if you put some stank on it, walk the bass about a bit and thrown in some tasty locked in accents with the drummer they’re gonna be dancing and thinking it’s the best version they’ve heard in years but still might not know why. Maybe it’s the booze. We know it was us grooving hard and we know we’re doing it for us and making the band sound good and not for some spotty geek who wants to know what strings we’re using. 

 

I’m off to play a gig now after a 5:30 wake up call and a 13 hour day in a pretty busy and stressful environment. I’m gonna move about and see if my bass lines get more attention than my shaking booty. I’ll update about 01:30 if anyone’s still reading. 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by krispn

[Cuzzie]

I ever asked about yr strings,and now I use clearasil

[Maude]

This thread has made me very happy to be in both of my bands. I couldn't be in a band where punters didn't notice the bass. First band is doublebass and lively so goes without saying that folks notice what I'm up to. Other band is Mod/Northern Soul/Ska, in songs like 'Tubestation At Midnight', 'The Real Me', 'The Night', 'Pressure Drop' etc people definitely know what I'm doing. I'm no wallflower in that band either and that's the way I like it. 

[krispn]

My singer and I went out to try and scope out a new fiddle player a few years back. In a local folk bar he bumped into a friend and a regular at our gigs. “You’ll know Gav!” he says to her. “Naw don’t recognise him. Where would I know him from?” she replied. Gav! He’s been our bass player for two years. 

I knew I was doing something right and haven’t looked back since.