Guest Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) Hi everyone I'm just after a little help with reducing the output volume on my Mesa M6 Fathom/Carbine head I've recently bought it and used it last night with a Mesa Powerhouse 8 ohm 2x10 and a Precision bass in a large pub. It sounds fantastic but it's stupidly loud with gain on half and the volume on circa 1!!!! Is there any advice to reduce the input maybe and would using the active circuit with my passive bass be detrimental to my sound in any way? Or do I lift the output and just lower the gain.... Thanks Mike Edited October 7, 2018 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy515 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Could an attenuator be used in the signal chain? Ive wondered this when using an Ampeg head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Ehm, roll back the gain...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy515 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 hour ago, HazBeen said: Ehm, roll back the gain...? But will that not loose much of the grind/break-up you can only get from tube heads with plenty of gain, pre-signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I have the same head. I run the gain at about 9 o’clock and the master often less than that. I play through a Mesa 6x10 so that is why I don’t crank the volume! However it is equally loud through my old 8 ohm Trace Elliot 1x15. The gain has never been higher than 10 o’clock. It is a clean amp so you are not losing out on ‘valve warmth’ by running it on low gain settings. I would do that before looking to get attenuator. I personally think that the amp is too loud, which saying something because I own a Trace Elliot V6 and EBS Fafner. The volume taper on the Mesa M6 is like an old Marshall amp in the that the output volume goes from zero to stupidly loud with little in between. I have to run the gain ridiculously low as otherwise it is impossible to obtain a usuable output on the master volume setting. The tone of the Mesa though is brilliant why is why I have kept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 EQ pedal in the fx loop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 4 hours ago, HazBeen said: Ehm, roll back the gain...? Yep, that's the easiest thing to do, it won;t change things that much. A few other things to think about. 1. Look at using EQ to address gain/volume, small cuts at certain frequencies can make a huge difference to the overall level. 2. What was your reference point for 'too loud'? You? A competent sound-guy? The audience? The guitarist/singer? All of these have different perspectives. Show me a guitarist who doesn't think the bass should turn down a little and I'll eat my trousers. Sound-guys/audience on the other hand tend to be more objective (although not always). Also 'too loud' can be a genre/taste thing as much as a statement of fact (bass is front and centre in some genres, background thump in others). Did you record the gig, might help you get an objective view? 3. In relation to the above, also think about where the rig was on the stage, specifically its proximity to other musicians/PA etc? The sound on stage can be very zonal, with some lucky audience/band members receiving viscera modifying bass tone with other getting none at all. 4. The Powerhouse 2x10 is also a very punchy cab, which IME cuts through way more than an equivalent 1x15. Bottom line however is that you need to rehearse with the same rig you're going to gig and get the balance in rehearsal to a point that the whole band are happy, otherwise you can waste whole gigs trying to get the right tone/volume. And just for the record, a bass cannot be too loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Too loud or not, that rig looks lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Beedster said: Show me a guitarist who doesn't think the bass should turn down a little and I'll eat my trousers. Start munching, both of my guitarists like the bass up front in the mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Beedster said: Yep, that's the easiest thing to do, it won;t change things that much. A few other things to think about. 1. Look at using EQ to address gain/volume, small cuts at certain frequencies can make a huge difference to the overall level. 2. What was your reference point for 'too loud'? You? A competent sound-guy? The audience? The guitarist/singer? All of these have different perspectives. Show me a guitarist who doesn't think the bass should turn down a little and I'll eat my trousers. Sound-guys/audience on the other hand tend to be more objective (although not always). Also 'too loud' can be a genre/taste thing as much as a statement of fact (bass is front and centre in some genres, background thump in others). Did you record the gig, might help you get an objective view? 3. In relation to the above, also think about where the rig was on the stage, specifically its proximity to other musicians/PA etc? The sound on stage can be very zonal, with some lucky audience/band members receiving viscera modifying bass tone with other getting none at all. 4. The Powerhouse 2x10 is also a very punchy cab, which IME cuts through way more than an equivalent 1x15. Bottom line however is that you need to rehearse with the same rig you're going to gig and get the balance in rehearsal to a point that the whole band are happy, otherwise you can waste whole gigs trying to get the right tone/volume. And just for the record, a bass cannot be too loud Thanks for this great advice 👍 Edited October 7, 2018 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMG456 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 If you want the amp to be quieter when you're driving it hard, there used to be devices you would put in the speaker circuit that would soak up that power - had a quick look on line and they are still being made although mostly not cheap. Search for amp attenuators. Or get a less efficient cab. Or, how are the speakers wired in your cab - if in parallel then maybe they could be rewired in series to present a bigger load to the amp - no idea if that would affect the tone or not but as long as the effective resistance was within the amp's capabilities, it might be worth trying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Getting a graphic equaliser with an overall level slider and cutting that should do it. However, as @thodrik has one and says that reducing the gain doesn`t impact on the sound/doesn`t lose valve warmth, I`d try that first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 A weird case of deja vu! I had the very same thing when I got an M6 Carbine amp & posted pretty much the same question to Basschat. Let’s just say I no longer have the amp but still think it’s the best sounding amp I’ve ever owned. Just couldn’t tame the loudness! Sorry that’s not much help & probably not what you want to hear 😟 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oZZma Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) On 07/10/2018 at 10:32, Paddy515 said: Could an attenuator be used in the signal chain? Ive wondered this when using an Ampeg head. Has anyone tried this? I have a problem with my guitar head (too loose, maybe because I don't push the tubes enough?), I wonder if it really makes difference, where do you place the attenuator? In the effects loop or right before the cab? I found the schematics and seems a pretty basic build... not sure if it's safe for a beginner builder to do it because if it fails I will burn the amp, if it goes after the power section. Sorry for the stupid questions but I'm a beginner and I haven't even heard about "attenuators" until yesterday LOL Edited March 1, 2019 by oZZma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 if that pub gig is as loud as you need to get , sell the amp and buy one more in your range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 07/10/2018 at 14:49, Beedster said: Show me a guitarist who doesn't think the bass should turn down a little and I'll eat my trousers. quote of the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I'm looking at that rig and wondering (not that I know) if there is an output level on the wireless? Could that be reduced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, Steve Browning said: I'm looking at that rig and wondering (not that I know) if there is an output level on the wireless? Could that be reduced? That would lower the input gain, which the OP wanted to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Why not just turn your bass volume down ? Does using the wireless not take you into active territory as it's now an electronic signal rather than passive. (i'm curious about that myself) I've used my Jazz bass in both active and passive modes on my Mesa Mpulse and never noticed any difference in tone. Just a change in volume. On the other hand i mistakenly played my active PJ in passive mode and it sounded quite flat. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, oZZma said: Has anyone tried this? I have a problem with my guitar head (too loose, maybe because I don't push the tubes enough?), I wonder if it really makes difference, where do you place the attenuator? In the effects loop or right before the cab? Attenuators work on the post-power stage output, so they need to be between the amp output and the cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 07/10/2018 at 14:58, JimBobTTD said: Too loud or not, that rig looks lovely. +1, love the NM PBass. I feel a GAS attack coming..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 07/10/2018 at 09:32, Paddy515 said: Could an attenuator be used in the signal chain? Ive wondered this when using an Ampeg head. 2 hours ago, oZZma said: Has anyone tried this? I have a problem with my guitar head (too loose, maybe because I don't push the tubes enough?), I wonder if it really makes difference, where do you place the attenuator? In the effects loop or right before the cab? I found the schematics and seems a pretty basic build... not sure if it's safe for a beginner builder to do it because if it fails I will burn the amp, if it goes after the power section. Sorry for the stupid questions but I'm a beginner and I haven't even heard about "attenuators" until yesterday LOL 2 minutes ago, pete.young said: Attenuators work on the post-power stage output, so they need to be between the amp output and the cab. An attenuator is essentially a volume control for your speakers. They work fine on guitar rigs where you are unlikely to find amps rated over 100W and pushing the output valves hard is part of the guitar sound. However all the ones I have seen are rated for use with amps of 100W or less and use 1/4" jack connections which rules them out for use with most serious bass rigs. On top of that the good ones are big and heavy as they are full of high-powered resistors, with heat sinks and fans to cool said resistors. As other have said a device with a volume control in the effects loop (provided that it comes after the pre-amp valves) should be a more suitable solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Turn the gain down, turn the bass down, join a louder band. Do you have a pedal boosting your volume? Was this gig a quiet gig? If your other gigs are louder then this amp might work, otherwise, as good as it sounds, seems like you have an amp for a louder band. Buy a smaller amp for gigs like this and use the louder head when you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 My Mpulse with an 8ohm cab at home i have the GAIN at approx 12 o'clock mid-point and Master Volume between 9 o'clock and 10 which i think is between 2-3 on a 0-10 scale. At rehearsals the master will be between 3-4 or 10 o'clock and 11. That drops by approx 1 when using my 4ohm cab. Must be a very quiet gig you were playing or the M6 is a lot louder than my Mpulse. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Curious where the lead from the bass goes if you have a wireless in use ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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