“Lock in with drummer”

[DJpullchord]

Never understood this, does it not just mean ‘playing in time’?

[PawelG]

1 minute ago, DJpullchord said:

Never understood this, does it not just mean ‘playing in time’?

Yeah, I guess.

To me, it means to have the same feel, make the drummer sound good and just to sort of ''lock in'' to create this lovely thing called ''rhythm section''.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

I'd thought for years this meant lengthy after hours boozing sessions was the key to a better sounding band 

[la bam]

To me it means something a bit different.

You can play in time and it be correct, but lifeless. 

Making a conscious effect to be as tight as possible with the drummer, creating as many Dynamics as possible, not necessarily as per record, is where it's at for me.

[Steve Browning]

For me, a lot of it is being 'triggered' by the kick drum and playing a line that i sympathetic to the overall drum pattern. Over time you get to be able to read the drummer and you play the songs almost as a duet.

[DJpullchord]

So, in time, with rehearsed dynamics?

[bubinga5]

There is so many ways to LOCK in with the drummer rhythmically. Undefinable.

[chris_b]

"Locking with the drummer" is about time and timing, but there's a lot more to it than that, and in order to be successful he has to "lock" with you as well.

It's about the two of you working as one, being on the same wavelength, feeling the groove and dynamics of your combined playing (not the dynamics of the arrangement). It's about complimenting each other, lifting the song and giving it extra life. 

[gary mac]

31 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

For me, a lot of it is being 'triggered' by the kick drum and playing a line that i sympathetic to the overall drum pattern. Over time you get to be able to read the drummer and you play the songs almost as a duet.

Yes and when it happens, it's such a pleasing thing.

[Dood]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

"Locking with the drummer" is about time and timing, but there's a lot more to it than that, and in order to be successful he has to "lock" with you as well.

It's about the two of you working as one, being on the same wavelength, feeling the groove and dynamics of your combined playing (not the dynamics of the arrangement). It's about complimenting each other, lifting the song and giving it extra life. 

Sometimes, it's just getting the drummer to lock in with something... anything.. 😂 

I jest of course. I feel very lucky to work with some incredible kit technicians who have an understanding of what is needed in the song or part.

For me, locking in is about understanding first and foremost. Even before you think about the notes to play. Understand mutually what your roles within the song or piece is. Here's a great example: Often, those who dislike the genre whilst listening to Jazz think that drum solos are frenetic. However, with a bit of understanding, you can recognise the change of role in the band situation, it's easier to hear that the pulse is being held down elsewhere. Often, say the bassist will be holding it together rather than "the traditional role" of the drummer. The drummer could be laying down some crazy polyrhythms or displacing the groove such that to the uninitiated it "sounds wrong". The bassist knows where the ONE is and the drummer is probably relying on said person to remain rock solid. Understanding is the larger part of doing. 

[TheGreek]

Isn't it also about "not playing" with the drummer - leaving each other space to fill-out parts and elaborate on what you've been playing. 

[Mudpup]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

"Locking with the drummer" is about time and timing, but there's a lot more to it than that, and in order to be successful he has to "lock" with you as well.

It's about the two of you working as one, being on the same wavelength, feeling the groove and dynamics of your combined playing (not the dynamics of the arrangement). It's about complimenting each other, lifting the song and giving it extra life. 

Absolutely this.....

I'm lucky enough to be playing with a tight as a ducks drummer for the last 6 years (although we've known each other for 30 years) and i can spot when he's going to try something from just a look in his eye. You can almost smell it coming..... We seem to be thinking the same most of the time. I'm pretty average in my own opinion but we just seem to work very well together - deps frequently say how easy it makes their job. I've played with loads of drummers over the last 35 years and this is the best its ever been.

[fleabag]

Our drummist  is a real groove monster and tighter than a nun's chuff.  Very easy to play with if you like to groove a smidge

[Dood]

27 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

Isn't it also about "not playing" with the drummer - leaving each other space to fill-out parts and elaborate on what you've been playing. 

Hopefully.. I hope that my comment came across that it encompassed that too, yup, I agree. You don't have to be "playing together" to "lock in". You don't even need to actually be playing.

[Mykesbass]

1 hour ago, Dood said:

Sometimes, it's just getting the drummer to lock in with something... anything.. 😂 

I jest of course. I feel very lucky to work with some incredible kit technicians who have an understanding of what is needed in the song or part.

For me, locking in is about understanding first and foremost. Even before you think about the notes to play. Understand mutually what your roles within the song or piece is. Here's a great example: Often, those who dislike the genre whilst listening to Jazz think that drum solos are frenetic. However, with a bit of understanding, you can recognise the change of role in the band situation, it's easier to hear that the pulse is being held down elsewhere. Often, say the bassist will be holding it together rather than "the traditional role" of the drummer. The drummer could be laying down some crazy polyrhythms or displacing the groove such that to the uninitiated it "sounds wrong". The bassist knows where the ONE is and the drummer is probably relying on said person to remain rock solid. Understanding is the larger part of doing. 

One of your drummers, Matt, is a good example of locking in. Solidly in time, but can play around the beat. Jammed with him once, he played a wonderful lazy groove by being behind the beat. Joy to play with.

[Dood]

30 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

One of your drummers, Matt, is a good example of locking in. Solidly in time, but can play around the beat. Jammed with him once, he played a wonderful lazy groove by being behind the beat. Joy to play with.

YES! That groove is totally him! We played together with guitarist Andy James for years. The sound was just crushing, but always had that 'swagger' which suited the style of music we were doing at the time. I loved that band actually - though I am not proud of saying this, more than once a headline band split up after we supported them. Those guys made me work hard as a bassist and I think we managed to deliver the goods. 

[arthurhenry]

It means one thing only; listening.

[Beedster]

For me it means knowing your drummer (and them knowing you) and both being able to feel and play to the same clock in any track. My old drummer was amazing, we'd sound as if we were playing to a click, but when we tried putting a click on tracks we'd recorded live, whilst we were both tight to each other, we would drift significantly ahead and behind a click at various points in songs. Took us a long time to get there however. Key for me was that he used to learn my parts and then play drum lines that complemented them, sometimes by filling the spaces I left, and kinda relieving the tension, and sometimes by leaving the same spaces and increasing it. Great when it works, but hard work and hours of playing were the key. It's certainly about more than timing.   

[gt4ever]

For me the tempo and timing should breath slightly instead of being a rigid tight rhythm and the locking in is to have a joint inner feeling of this slight flexibility of rhythm and sounds awesome when you’re in it and both feeling it.

[lownote]

I seem to remember Scott Devine devotes a lesson to this.  It's not simple - sometimes you lock with the kick drum, sometimes with the high hat.  Sometimes the drummer does the detail and the bass takes a back seat, then the drummer lays back and you provide the detail.   Then you can lean on the beat and other times you lean back on the beat.  I swear you musos make it up half the time.

[mcnach]

14 hours ago, TheGreek said:

Isn't it also about "not playing" with the drummer - leaving each other space to fill-out parts and elaborate on what you've been playing. 

 

+1!!!

[mikel]

For me it always meant playing as a unit, leaving space for each other and making each other sound good. Its about the micro timing that makes a groove great rather than simply functional.

[stewblack]

I think it's some if not all of the above. No hard or fast rules but you know when your doing it right. Speaking personally it takes time for me to get to know a drummer. Some I dovetail with very quickly - our styles just suit one another's musical needs perfectly. Others may take longer, and sometimes it never seems to happen. Generally I need to listen to the drummer more closely than anyone else and begin a dialogue in rehearsal about the parts we are drawn to and how we play them. It's then a process of consciously playing complimentary stuff. Over time this becomes more instinctive through familiarity and repetition until you both are locked in together. Nirvana for me!

Edited October 8, 2018 by stewblack
Adding appropriate punctuation