Singers.....why?

[Monkey Steve]

yeah, sit down, properly clear the air on all sides (so, tell him you think he's acting like a c#nt - I haven't copy written that phrase so you can have it for free), remind him of the practicalities about gigs and comms and other people's lives that he seems to have forgotten when it doesn't suit him to remember, and discuss the issue around song choices not being solely down to him.

I had very similar issues from one guitarist in an old band (he was always right, we were always wrong, he only ever did what he wanted and expected us to be grateful for it) and it resulted in the band splitting up because most of us couldn't stand to be around him any more.  I think that if we'd actually sat down and pointed out what a spoiled tw~t he was to his face much earlier instead of moaning about him behind his back and then politely under-selling the complaints to his face (never once worked) then I think it could have been solved before we got to that point.

And you have nothing to lose.  If he maintains his right to act like a c#nt then your decision to fire him or quit the band should be fairly simple.

One big tip - have a word with the rest of the band ahead of the meeting.  Find out where they all stand, so you know which side they're on if it comes down to picking him or you.

[dmccombe7]

Remind him its a BAND.

[chris_b]

All the macho and overly aggressive comments have a certain amusement value, but in the real world, if it is his band, he's fronting it and he's getting the gigs then (fact of life) you don't have to be on the same page, you have to be on his page.

I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've not met many (if any) successful democratic bands in the last 50 years. It is a necessary evil, but there is always someone who is a driving force in every good band.

So breathe, clear the air with him, settle things down, make him happy and (as we are hearing it's a good band) get on and enjoy the ride.

[Lozz196]

Yes, it`s all very well being a democracy, but that can swiftly turn to an idiocy. Someone has to lead, fact of life, and it`s then up to both those who choose whether to follow or not, and the leader as to whether they want those people following them. An army marches to the pace of its slowest member. If the slowest member is impeding progress for whatever reasons there are then 2 people who need to make a decision.

[EliasMooseblaster]

7 hours ago, Witters said:

The keyboard player wants to keep it going, the singer is busy back pedalling as fast as he can, I don’t know what the drummer wants, and I’m in the middle going “wtf?”   Having been “the dream band” it’s now a car crash.

We have a meeting tonight but I don’t know where I stand.  I’m torn between not wanting to let my friends down (bass, drums, keys), not wanting to share the same airspace as the singer, wanting to walk away right now. Stunned.

This problem sounds familiar. The crucial question is: what does everybody want from this?

This is always a dangerm because everybody joins these startups with a vague agreement that they'd like to make a success of the project. The trouble is, they never get round to discussing specifics. This is not a failing on anybody's part: it's just that most people don't necessarily come into things with the well-prescribed idea that they want a given band to be, e.g., "the most popular early-krautrock covers band in Daventry, playing no fewer than eight nights a week, and ideally earning £7,000 per show."

I can only speculate. It may be that the singer enjoyed those gigs so much, he now thinks this band could put itself in a position to become his primary source of income; if the bassist has a family and a new job, then he may have other ideas. It may even be that they all want to make it their primary concern, but they all have different thresholds for being prepared to leave their jobs and dedicate themselves to it full-time (I speak from experience, this does happen).

Find out want everyone wants out of this project. Let them be honest; don't let one member shoot down another for "not wanting it enough" (read: being pragmatic) or "holding us back from our dreams" (read: my ego must be massaged). It should become clearer what needs to happen. Hopefully you can compromise, and the band won't need to start shedding members, but it's better to get this straightened out before things can properly boil over.

[Muzz]

It's always the singist's prerogative to choose the songs. It's easy to forget how personal a challenge it is to stand up and sing in front of people, and there's enough beaching and moaning goes on on here about playing songs folk don't like when we're mostly standing at the back, and don't have to invest as much of ourselves in the process*.

Also, before anyone gets all het up with the person getting the gigs and getting all the band members to commit to and actually turn up to them, I'd suggest trying it...herding cats is slightly easier...

 

* With all due credit to singing bassists here...double points, chapeau, etc... 🙂

[dmccombe7]

100% agree someone has to take the lead in a band and have a final say. The songs can be selected democratically and gigs agreed with a level of shared acceptance but someone needs to be pushing a band and getting the gigs or the band would end up rehearsing forever with no gigs in sight.

 

[dmccombe7]

Our band make song suggestions and it is then dependant on whether or not the singer is happy with doing it. At the end of the day the singer has final say on it from that perspective.

Our singer is the guy behind the band. He started the band off and he is the one getting the gigs so its easier for me to go along with his decisions. As long as a song isn't utter crap i'll give it a go and if it works all god. If it doesn't i'll suggest we drop it for something else.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by dmccombe7

[Muzz]

5 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Our band make song suggestions and it is then dependant on whether or not the singer is happy with doing it. At the end of the day the singer has final say on it from that perspective.

Our singer is the guy behind the band. He started the band off and he is the one getting the gigs so its easier for me to go along with his decisions. As long as a song isn't utter crap i'll give it a go and if it works all god. If it doesn't i'll suggest we drop it for something else.

 

Yeah, that's about it - the singist gets the ultimate veto, tho there's at least the pretence of democracy about it all... 🙂

[casapete]

Lots of good comments and advice here. Only thing I would add is that (certainly from my point of view) it really isn't always possible to send texts when you're going about your daily work / business / life. I drive a fair bit, and only check my phone for tests when I stop for instance. Also many jobs do not make it easy to constantly be monitoring your phone for calls / texts. I check my phone as often as I can to ensure nothing has been missed, and (to my knowledge) nobody has died yet as a result of me not answering immediately 😄

Edited October 9, 2018 by casapete

[Lozz196]

9 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

100% agree someone has to take the lead in a band and have a final say. The songs can be selected democratically and gigs agreed with a level of shared acceptance but someone needs to be pushing a band and getting the gigs or the band would end up rehearsing forever with no gigs in sight.

 

Def, in the 5 years we`ve been together I`ve got one gig, the drummers got one gig, and the focused singer has got the other 200+. His hard work relies on us to be swift at advising if we`re available as another band may get the offer if we`re not.

[dmccombe7]

36 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Def, in the 5 years we`ve been together I`ve got one gig, the drummers got one gig, and the focused singer has got the other 200+. His hard work relies on us to be swift at advising if we`re available as another band may get the offer if we`re not.

Can appreciate people not being able to answer messages while at work but after work shouldn't be a problem for a quick check of your calendar and txt yes or no to the singer. I would expect a reply within 2 days max if urgent.

[bassbiscuits]

2 hours ago, casapete said:

Lots of good comments and advice here. Only thing I would add is that (certainly from my point of view) it really isn't always possible to send texts when you're going about your daily work / business / life. I drive a fair bit, and only check my phone for tests when I stop for instance. Also many jobs do not make it easy to constantly be monitoring your phone for calls / texts. I check my phone as often as I can to ensure nothing has been missed, and (to my knowledge) nobody has died yet as a result of me not answering immediately 😄

That's true - but not being able to respond at all for four days of the week seems a bit OTT.

[dave_bass5]

i wouldn't be in a band where i couldn't book gigs because people wouldn't get back to me. T

9 hours ago, Witters said:

At the beginning of term I’d made it clear that I was going to be very difficult to get hold of during the week. He was getting more and more irritated that I was not responding to “can you do this gig” and seemed to not understand repeated “I am in front of students until very late in the evening four days a week, I cannot respond.” There was more but this will get lengthy.

I get that you have a busy job and cant be seen tbe using your phone in front of the students, but IMO there is no way a band can really function if someone cant take 30 seconds out of their day to respond to a possible gig date. I cant see how a short text is not possible during the day. You must have toilet breaks/lunch breaks etc.

Im not taking sides with anyone, just pointing out that the above can make it very hard for someone who wants to book gigs and i can understand his frustration.

[bassjim]

We have a shared band diary. On it we all put the dates we can not do in advance. Any thing comes up as the year goes on,  we update our not available status. Any gigs that come in on days any of us can not do, deps are instantly called upon. Our main gig getter can confidently say yes to anything local/ish if it comes in straight away as we have all agreed to that in advance. Works 9/10.

Not an answer to how to make a Sir Richard Head III behave better but if any of that helps.........

I've been close to pushing  old band members with ego problems under a passing bus but the try and sort it out route is probably best. If the guys a born Sir Richard Head III, its unlikely hes gonna change so you may as well try and blend in and grit your teeth if its great regular gig.

[ambient]

Balancing personal life with band life is always difficult.

I teach music to children and wouldn't dare have my iPhone out during a lesson, some schools actually ban them because of the camera. I do generally have time to check texts and emails in between lessons and during breaks though.

[dmccombe7]

On the rare occasion i had meetings all day and could only answer emails or txt messages during lunch breaks i found that i had too many from the morning to get thru them all. Same with txt messages and when i am at work i had a strict work ethic that work issues took priority over personal issues unless an urgent family issue.

A lot of times we had working lunch breaks which ruled out using your phone.  

Not every place of employment allows people the time to check all their messages and as someone said some places like schools don't allow them because of the camera. 

However i would always answer calls at night when i got home or if important just before i left the office or as i got in my car. (obviously the engine would be off and key out the ignition )

I have sympathy for people that can't access their phones during the day and i allow for that but 4 days is a bit much.

Dave

[Witters]

Wow, what a fantastic wealth of replies!  This is why I prefer bass players to guitarists (like me); you are so much nicer!

Also, I love bass and am really enjoying it, so much to learn and this is where to learn.

Some great responses to my original post, some entertaining, some a little close for comfort, some shot me down and some really good advice; especially as you only got my side of an incomplete picture.  Thank you all so much, you were a great help.

The meeting was an unexpected success, the singer held his hand up and said “I’ve been an derrière and thrown my toys out of the cot, I’m sorry”.  We have started a set of band rules/expectations, the existing band diary is to be reinvigorated and handed over to me, a gig finders fee has been introduced, a deps-Black-book will be started. We all realise what we’ve got and we want to keep it. A plan of action has been created and there is a willingness to meet more regularly without instruments.  We have been surprisingly mature for a bunch of musicians.

[Witters]

12 hours ago, Raymondo said:

If it's the band I saw at Wotton recently then yes he does.....and he is bloody brilliant!

More than one person told me that they go to see the band because "the guitarist is amazing"

The band name implies that it is the singers band and he did come across as the one with an "ego" when I saw them, but was very good and sang an incredible amount of songs on the gig.

@Witters I would suggest that if he is being as overbearing as you say, and I think he probably is judging him on the performance I saw, you wouldn't be long in either

(a) Finding another band that would jump at the chance to have you in the band or

(b) Find a singer that would love the chance to be in a band with such brilliant musicians.

Try to have a band meeting to sort things out if possible ( you do seem to have some "momentum" with this band) but have no worries if things cannot be repaired....I know for a fact that the organisers of W-U-E festival will book any band you are in!

Good luck, let me know when you have gigs🙂 

Thank you for your kind words but I couldn’t do what I do without the musicians with me.  We guitarists can be very dull on our own (unless we are Martin Taylor)

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, Witters said:

The meeting was an unexpected success. . .

I'm very happy to see that you are all back on track. Great news. 

[Beedster]

9 hours ago, Witters said:

Wow, what a fantastic wealth of replies!  This is why I prefer bass players to guitarists (like me); you are so much nicer!

Also, I love bass and am really enjoying it, so much to learn and this is where to learn.

Some great responses to my original post, some entertaining, some a little close for comfort, some shot me down and some really good advice; especially as you only got my side of an incomplete picture.  Thank you all so much, you were a great help.

The meeting was an unexpected success, the singer held his hand up and said “I’ve been an derrière and thrown my toys out of the cot, I’m sorry”.  We have started a set of band rules/expectations, the existing band diary is to be reinvigorated and handed over to me, a gig finders fee has been introduced, a deps-Black-book will be started. We all realise what we’ve got and we want to keep it. A plan of action has been created and there is a willingness to meet more regularly without instruments.  We have been surprisingly mature for a bunch of musicians.

Great outcome, hope it all works out, especially as it sounds like it's a great band

[la bam]

great stuff. its very easy to be dragged into crazy situations without realising it. Taking a step back like you have can work wonders.

[thepurpleblob]

True story - drummer friend and I started a band. Time passes, things going well. Singer leaves for new project and we recruit a new one. Great voice, great with the audience and so on. Two months later he corrupts the lead guitarist and me and the drummer are sacked because we won't do 3 gigs a weekend (which we always said). I've met some really cool people and some proper a*** h****s the like of which I never seen before playing music. 

The moral - I'm not sure there is one apart from to say this is what it can be like. You chuck this and you go to another band and some other diva. 

[Woodinblack]

I think in that case I wouldln't get sacked, I would say, 'my band, you leave and make your own'

[thepurpleblob]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

I think in that case I wouldln't get sacked, I would say, 'my band, you leave and make your own'

They were more devious than that. They'd already phoned around all the venues for upcoming bookings and told them that the band was changing its name....