MESA Subway query

[dmccombe7]

Has anyone gone from standard Mesa gear to the D800 / D800+ Subway range.

Does the Subway range have the same or similar tone to the Powerhouse cabs or MPulse or Carbine or Big Block range. ?

Does it have that depth of tone, warmth and "girth" of tone being the best description that tubes bring to the table. ?

Just thought i'd ask see what people think.

Dave

[thodrik]

As a Carbine and Walkabout owner, my understanding is that the preamp of the D800 series is a similar design to the Carbine series: big, clean, fast attack, easy to dial in a good tone and with tonnes of headroom. This is different from the MPulse and Walkabout range  which are trying to capture the sound of an all valve  amp. 

I would doubt that the D800 will lack anything in terms of tone, heft or volume. It just won’t sound like the MPulse or a Walkabout, most likely because it wasn’t designed to sound like them. 

 

[dmccombe7]

From what i've read from the designer the D800 was designed to emulate a combination of the Mpulse and Carbine tone. That was from the other forum that he answers most questions on the thread.

I was recently thinking of going for the Mpulse rather than the D800+ mainly because of the cost but i like the idea of the lightweight. I know there are guys out there that had the standard amps and changed and was just wondering what they thought about both amps.

I like that valve preamp tone but not a fan of the weight on the full valve heads

Dave

Edited October 14, 2018 by dmccombe7

[thodrik]

I think that the guy I bought my Carbine from (Largo) on here, ended up with D800, so you could try him. 

If you have any concerns on weight and want a valvey preamp sound I would probably avoid the Carbine range. The Walkabout is only 13 lbs or so, the rest are a good bit heavier. If you want valve preamp tone in a light-ish package I would recommend that over the D800. The Walkabout has limited headroom unless you run it through a bigger, more efficient cab though. 

In terms of the cabs, the Powerhouse cabs are heavy beasts, so if you have any concerns of weight whatsoever, I would suggest just getting the Subway range. The tone will be great and the added benefit will be that you can actually lift them. I have a Powerhouse 6x10 which I have no doubts will deliver more heft than a couple of Subway cabs stacked, but it is equally a pain to lift and move (it weighs 110lbs or so). These days nobody should ever need a 6x10, I don’t either I just wanted to own a big cab at least once in my life. 

[dmccombe7]

It was the MPulse 600 that was for sale on here but its too far to travel and not keen on posting so not an option but it looked great and had a few things i quite liked in an amp.

I have a Bergantino HT322 cab (1x12, 2x10's and a horn) so its a bit of a beast to carry too. Match that with my GK1001RBii and its loud and powerful but not warm and tube sounding. If i went for the Mpulse i might go for a 410 cab on castors or a good lightweight option 410

I just like the idea of a lighter option hence the Subway range. Can't try it as none of the shops up here actually have them in stock all at same time. Could try the amp but not a cab or i could try one of the cabs but not the amp. Pretty poor for Mesa dealers IMO.

Thanks for the reply tho. All help appreciated.

Dave

[thodrik]

The GK1001RBii is a beast of an amp. I played a few shows with one. 

It is strange that it is so difficult to try Mesa bass gear in Scotland, considering that their UK distributors are in Glasgow (Westside Distribution), but there you go. I have seen a couple of Big Blocks in Scotland in the classifieds over the last few months, that is the only Mesa amp I would sell my Carbine for. 

Edit: by 'classifieds I also include Facebook 'Buy/sell forums'.

Edited October 14, 2018 by thodrik

[dmccombe7]

43 minutes ago, thodrik said:

The GK1001RBii is a beast of an amp. I played a few shows with one. 

It is strange that it is so difficult to try Mesa bass gear in Scotland, considering that their UK distributors are in Glasgow (Westside Distribution), but there you go. I have seen a couple of Big Blocks in Scotland in the classifieds over the last few months, that is the only Mesa amp I would sell my Carbine for. 

Edit: by 'classifieds I also include Facebook 'Buy/sell forums'.

I'm on the FB forum for local buy and sell gear too.. Will keep an eye open for a 2nd hand one.

Dave

[TheGreek]

I can't comment on the D800/D800+ as I haven't tried one, however I currently own a MPulse 600 and previously owned a Walkabout.

IMO, though there is a family resemblance, with similar "faces" and controls, tonally they're not that similar. Nobody doubts the versatility of the Mesa range - lots available which means there is something for most needs and I'm sure that with patience and perseverance you going to get pretty close to what you want from either...The MPulse gives you old school valves versus the Walkabout's more modern solid state tonal package. They are not the same beast.

Not currently gigging so I rarely move my gear...I much prefer the MPulse over the Walkabout - if I was hauling it about weekly I may have a different opinion but personally, I found it to be much warmer and phatter sounding - easier to access those more soulful and funky tones - whereas the Walkabout, which I wasn't overly impressed with TBH, is probably more suited to a rockier, more driven tonal palette. 

Having said that, I do know it's very popular here - many say one of the best amps they've played. If you like a good solid rock amp it probably is...Horses for courses I suppose.

I also have the Powerhouse 1x15 cab. They may not be light by modern standards - i.e. compared to BF/Vanderkleys and the like, but they are not in the same weight category as your vintage Marshall/ Ampeg classics. I think Mesa, being aware of the weight factor fitted them with castors as standard....a bit of a Godsend...They must know about my back..

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the Powerhouse 1x15 however it recently inexplicably developed an "overdriven/distorted" sound for no apparent reason or cause.

I suspect a simple wiring problem which is undiagnosable by your typical numpty (me). I bet an "expert" at shaking wires will be able to resolve the "problem" in seconds.

Neither the MPulse nor the Walkabout are lightweights by today's standards. If you're not unhappy with the additional weight (over a Class D head) I'm pretty sure that you'll be happy with either. 

[Al Krow]

I've not found the D800/800+ to match the "something extra" that my Mesa M6 provides.

The tube preamp + class A/B MOSFET power amp in the M6 has a quality and articulation that just seems to set it apart from the more "sterile" class D alternatives (and I've played a few). I'd actually say that the Genzler GM800 with a touch of its on-board drive gets closer than the D800/800+.

But I doubt that anyone would notice the difference in a live band setting, though, apart from (just possibly) yourself and the portability, cost and convenience of a D class head obviously then come into their own.

The Mesa PH 212 cab I have easily matches both the VK210 and BF SC for the quality of sound it delivers, and if it were more portable I'd have not looked any further.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Al Krow

[dmccombe7]

I like the idea of the lightweight gear and its a big attraction but its the tone i want first or as close to it as possible.

I've been lugging an Ampeg SVT4 Pro about for some gigs but its just too unreliable.

The weight isn't the main focus. I'd be happy with the MPulse 600 i was looking at with a decent cab but rather than lugging my Berg HT322 about i'd be looking more towards the Powerhouse 1x15 and either a Powerhouse 2x10 on top. Other option might be the Powerhouse 2x12 cab on its own. Not loked into those much tho.

Currently using a lightweight Markbass rig but the tone just isn't there. Tried the MB amp head thru my HT322 cab and it was a complete change in tone from the amp which just confirmed my thinking that the small lightweight cabs just don't do it for me.

Thanks fro help guys 

Dave

[dmccombe7]

Is the walkabout not just a smaller Mpulse head with less parametric control. ?

[TheGreek]

http://mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/m-pulse-600.html

http://mesaboogie.com/amplifiers/bass/walkabout-series/walkabout-heads/head.html

[Steve Browning]

On 14/10/2018 at 22:39, TheGreek said:

I can't comment on the D800/D800+ as I haven't tried one, however I currently own a MPulse 600 and previously owned a Walkabout.

IMO, though there is a family resemblance, with similar "faces" and controls, tonally they're not that similar. Nobody doubts the versatility of the Mesa range - lots available which means there is something for most needs and I'm sure that with patience and perseverance you going to get pretty close to what you want from either...The MPulse gives you old school valves versus the Walkabout's more modern solid state tonal package. They are not the same beast.

Not currently gigging so I rarely move my gear...I much prefer the MPulse over the Walkabout - if I was hauling it about weekly I may have a different opinion but personally, I found it to be much warmer and phatter sounding - easier to access those more soulful and funky tones - whereas the Walkabout, which I wasn't overly impressed with TBH, is probably more suited to a rockier, more driven tonal palette. 

Having said that, I do know it's very popular here - many say one of the best amps they've played. If you like a good solid rock amp it probably is...Horses for courses I suppose.

I also have the Powerhouse 1x15 cab. They may not be light by modern standards - i.e. compared to BF/Vanderkleys and the like, but they are not in the same weight category as your vintage Marshall/ Ampeg classics. I think Mesa, being aware of the weight factor fitted them with castors as standard....a bit of a Godsend...They must know about my back..

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the Powerhouse 1x15 however it recently inexplicably developed an "overdriven/distorted" sound for no apparent reason or cause.

I suspect a simple wiring problem which is undiagnosable by your typical numpty (me). I bet an "expert" at shaking wires will be able to resolve the "problem" in seconds.

Neither the MPulse nor the Walkabout are lightweights by today's standards. If you're not unhappy with the additional weight (over a Class D head) I'm pretty sure that you'll be happy with either. 

I have used Boogie gear continuously from 1988 to the present day, going from Bass 400 through Walkabout to M-Pulse 600. Fairly recently a friend and I did a comparison of my amps and his Subway 800, through the same cab.

We both concluded that there was a noticeable 'dna' that was present in all the amps (all bar the Bass 400 which wasn't included in the comparison).

[dmccombe7]

2 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I have used Boogie gear continuously from 1988 to the present day, going from Bass 400 through Walkabout to M-Pulse 600. Fairly recently a friend and I did a comparison of my amps and his Subway 800, through the same cab.

We both concluded that there was a noticeable 'dna' that was present in all the amps (all bar the Bass 400 which wasn't included in the comparison).

Did the D800 come across as having the same warm tube sound that i tend to associate with Mesa ?

With your extensive experience and knowledge of Mesa Steve what is your preference or fav Mesa amp excluding the £3k top of the range all tube head of course. Thinking more in the Mpulse, Carbine, Walkabout, Big Block and D800 territory. 

Would you change over to the Subway rig from your normal Mesa rig. 

I see you already have 2off the Subway 15 cabs so curious why you haven't gone for the D800 head.

Sorry for all the questions Steve but you are probably one of the best people to ask knowing your amp history. That and the fact i've found your general comments to be honest, straight to the point and always worth reading.

Dave

 

[Steve Browning]

Yikes!!

I confess I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to amps and have an unfair bias towards some amount of genuine valve in the path. My friend bought an M-Pulse 600 on the basis of hearing mine through the Diesel 2x15 that was my cab until about 2 years ago. I bought the two Subway 1x15's to replace the old 2x15. Using the M-Pulse and Subway cabs gives me the same sound as I had with the Bass 400 and Diesel rig IMHO.

My friend tends to use his M-Pulse too, I should add. Just to throw a further spanner, if the weight of the amp ever proved to be prohibitive for me, I would happily use the Subway. The tone was certainly the same (pretty much) across the range of amps but the valve pre-amps did have 'something' which may have just been valve colouration but not to the extent that we thought it was completely different.

I think the vagueness of that answer suggests that we didn't think there was much of any significant difference but I have let my  bias towards valves colour my judgement in favour of the M-Pulse.

[dmccombe7]

35 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Yikes!!

I confess I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to amps and have an unfair bias towards some amount of genuine valve in the path. My friend bought an M-Pulse 600 on the basis of hearing mine through the Diesel 2x15 that was my cab until about 2 years ago. I bought the two Subway 1x15's to replace the old 2x15. Using the M-Pulse and Subway cabs gives me the same sound as I had with the Bass 400 and Diesel rig IMHO.

My friend tends to use his M-Pulse too, I should add. Just to throw a further spanner, if the weight of the amp ever proved to be prohibitive for me, I would happily use the Subway. The tone was certainly the same (pretty much) across the range of amps but the valve pre-amps did have 'something' which may have just been valve colouration but not to the extent that we thought it was completely different.

I think the vagueness of that answer suggests that we didn't think there was much of any significant difference but I have let my  bias towards valves colour my judgement in favour of the M-Pulse.

Thanks Steve that's an honest answer and its more or less what i was expecting and what i have heard listening to as many VID clips as i can of all Mesa gear and comparing between them.

The weight thing is not a major factor for me. I'm still able to carry a reasonable weight. I've been looking at some of the 2nd hand Mpulse 600 and Big Blck amp heads that are selling for half the price of a D800+. The Powerhouse 212 or 210 with a 115 cab i could quite happily get along with and again they are selling at ridiculously low prices on the 2nd hand market. 

I'm currently selling off a lot of gear i've collected over past 10 yrs that i no longer use and i'll be keeping an eye open for good 2nd hand buys and if that fails i'll maybe bite the bullet and go the full Subway rig.

Unfortunately the local shops and Mesa dealers up here don't stock the Subway range and i'm not able to trial it

Really apreciate your reply along with few others who have responded.

Thanks again

Dave

[Mark_Bass]

I sold my M9 Carbine and brought a Subway D800+.

The only real difference other than weight and size was I found my M9 was a tonne louder or at least I didn’t need to crank it anywhere near as much as the Subway.

i think my bass cuts through a bit more with the Subway and it’s nice to be able to be able to rehearse with headphones as opposed to being locked in my garage

[Steve Browning]

I have subsequently bought a Subway pre/DI and am very happy with it. I haven't used it as any part of my backline but it was excellent going into the pa when I did a gig that didn't require any specific backline.

[AREA]

I have a Mesa Subway D800 and I really love it. Lots of Power. Your really can feel and hear, that it is the second or third Generation of Class D Amps. A few Weeks ago we compared the Mesa D800 Side by Side with the Quilter BB800 and the Mesa has blown the Quilter out of the Water. It was really a huge and without a Doubt noticable Difference. The "Lightweight Thing" was also my Intention to go with the Mesa.

[machinehead]

44 minutes ago, AREA said:

I have a Mesa Subway D800 and I really love it. Lots of Power. Your really can feel and hear, that it is the second or third Generation of Class D Amps. A few Weeks ago we compared the Mesa D800 Side by Side with the Quilter BB800 and the Mesa has blown the Quilter out of the Water. It was really a huge and without a Doubt noticable Difference. The "Lightweight Thing" was also my Intention to go with the Mesa.

Surely that's an exaggeration?  No?

I don't hear that much difference really but I notice that one costs twice as much as the other!!

I very much doubt that there's much, if any, difference in volume, and tone is a subjective subject.

The market is awash now with excellent, lightweight bass amps.  I think that all of them will do a decent job for the gigging bassist.  It's definately a good time for us to be playing bass guitar.

Frank.

[AREA]

36 minutes ago, machinehead said:

Surely that's an exaggeration?  No?

I don't hear that much difference really but I notice that one costs twice as much as the other!!

I very much doubt that there's much, if any, difference in volume, and tone is a subjective subject.

The market is awash now with excellent, lightweight bass amps.  I think that all of them will do a decent job for the gigging bassist.  It's definately a good time for us to be playing bass guitar.

Frank.

Hi Frank,

Yes Times are good for the gigging Bassist. There is good Equipment for nearly every Pocket (pricewise), but no..that was not an exaggeration. We compared the two Amps at a small Bass Player Meeting from a german Bass Forum and the Difference was noticed by other Bassplayers too. When we really turned up the volume to get some performance, the mesa was much more sovereign, but of Course you're right, the Mesa is in another Price Class without a Doubt

[peteb]

I own both a mpulse and a Subway D800. 

I would say that they don't sound the same, but the Subway comes as close as any Class D I've heard. I don't think it has the headroom that some say it has, but does sound good...