NBD, and advice needed.

[leschirons]

Just bought this as I've decided I'm at that time of life when I need to give it a try.

Not sure if there are defined ways on how to start off or whether it's just see what sort of works. Found one or two things on You tube but they are mainly just plucking exercises and don't advise on best way to hold the thing to avoid any future bad habits.

Any advice or links appreciated.

[stingrayPete1977]

Hi mate definitely check out Geoff Chalmers discover double bass, that will take you from basic left hand technique to bowing in the philharmonic! 

[philparker]

Although it may sound pretty obvious, I, and I would presume most others, would advise seeking out a decent and reputable tutor to get you started and prevent the bad habits creeping in. It is of course up to you how long you and often you decide to take lessons, but to get started there is no better advice than a good tutor.

Without wishing to state the obvious, tuition on the DB is far more pertinent and important than on EB or Guitar and if you wish to progress on DB, technique is also more paramount than on EB or guitar.

Congratulations on your purchase, it is a lovely looking instrument!

[leschirons]

Thank you both for replying. I will try and find a tutor, at least to get me started and will also check out Geoff Chalmers.

I know a great tutor here in the UK but not sure what I'll find back in France, especially deep in no man's land where I live😂

[philparker]

Geoff Chalmers is of course excellent and so is Laurent Pierce as well as a whole host of YT Tutors, but they can't correct you when you are starting out, they can't adjust you or advise you to try something different if it isn't working - they can't provide you with feedback etc. They do provide great learning material, but in between it would be better to have the individual advice of a tutor.

Good Luck!

[stingrayPete1977]

Certainly both would be ideal but if you're going to make a start on your own then Geoffs lessons are the only ones I'd follow just to get going a bit until a tutor can be found. 

[J_Bass]

I bought Geoff's beginner package and I recommend it. 

Nice way to talk, not boring, but calm and takes time to explain, but not to the point you feel the need to fast forward. 

The lessons make sense and the sequence is very well thought. 

But I also got a teacher. He corrects me on the spot and coming from electric, this really is a different instrument and I felt the need for guidance. 

 

[leschirons]

Thanks for all your replies. I thought I'd found a tutor yesterday but it seems he's not interested in teaching upright "stick" bass only real double bass. Do I have a "stick" bass? FIIK  I thought they were the ones with no body at all.

Watched two of the Geoff Chalmers vids and found him very agreeable to listen to however, on the posture vid, he's making a point of contact with the bass body that I don't have on my bass so that's confused me a little.

[stingrayPete1977]

A tutor that won't teach you on a stick bass isn't a teacher you need teaching you anything imo. 

Yes you'll have some things that are different and it's a physical instrument anyway, left hand technique and right hand plucking are what I'd concentrate on first. 

[Marc S]

On 20/10/2018 at 16:09, stingrayPete1977 said:

A tutor that won't teach you on a stick bass isn't a teacher you need teaching you anything imo. 

Yes you'll have some things that are different and it's a physical instrument anyway, left hand technique and right hand plucking are what I'd concentrate on first. 

Exactly what stingrayPete says above. I can't believe a tutor would refuse to teach you because of your choice of bass - that's really quite unbelievable
In any case, I don't think that is a stick bass, as it does have a resonant chamber / body
There are some great instructional videos on YouTube, Geoff's being some stand out examples. Watch as many as you can, but get some lessons early on too

That's a nice looking bass you have there - congratulations on your purchase, and best of luck with your exciting new journey

[petebassist]

Difficult to tell from the photograph, but it sounds like your bass doesn't have a waist extension arm at the back to hold the bass away from your body? If not, you might want to concoct one yourself so that your bass isn't too near your body and you can hold it more comfortably, like on the Eminence here. The bass should be stable enough so that you can move your hand freely up and down the neck with only a light pressure from your thumb to stabilize your hand, without having to press your thumb too hard,  which I believe can cause hand/arm/shoulder strains. Small bodied/stick basses are also prone to swivelling, hence the T-shaped foot on the Eminence, which you might also be able to copy. 

 

[leschirons]

You're right, it doesn't have a waist extension and it does tend to swivel.

I've been studying the videos to try and find some uniformity  on instrument position/angle etc but it seems that every player has their idea of what is correct for them. Some play with the bass parallel to their body, some at an angle and a couple I've seen,  nearly 90° to their body.

As mentioned, I'm going to concentrate for a week or two on left and right hand technique and maybe see what developes stance-wise but still look for a tutor before any really bad habits set in.

[Beer of the Bass]

I played an older model Bassix EUB for a few years, and always struggled with posture. While he did well to offer the only EUB available for less than a grand in the early 2000s, I felt like a few details of mine weren't well thought out.  One was the lack of a waist/bout extension, and there's no obvious way to fit one since the body is a thin fibreglass shell. The fingerboard on mine was oddly shaped too, and couldn't be planed as it's a moulded resin material.

So while it was basically a functional instrument, I found I developed much less useful double bass technique on it than I'd hoped. Hopefully he'd have refined things a little more with later models though. 

[mangotango]

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 16:09, stingrayPete1977 said:

A tutor that won't teach you on a stick bass isn't a teacher you need teaching you anything imo. 

 

And yet I've encountered several.......grrrrrr.

[neilp]

A teacher is perfectly entitled to make that decision, and they have probably made it on the basis that there Are differences and they don't feel comfortable teaching what they don't know. I have never played an EUB, and I would say the same. I wouldn't teach you on that bass. It's not a snobbery thing. You should be grateful for their integrity

[mangotango]

24 minutes ago, neilp said:

A teacher is perfectly entitled to make that decision, and they have probably made it on the basis that there Are differences and they don't feel comfortable teaching what they don't know. I have never played an EUB, and I would say the same. I wouldn't teach you on that bass. It's not a snobbery thing. You should be grateful for their integrity

Yes, of course they are so entitled. However, speaking only from my personal experience, in at least a couple of cases, it was easy to judge from their sneering reactions that it was exactly a snobbery thing.

And I was indeed  grateful to them, for one very good reason.  I carried on my search and found a teacher who would let me learn on the instrument of my choice, rather than imposing theirs, and who teaches with an open mind. 

Perfect for me.  YMMV.

[stingrayPete1977]

On 07/11/2018 at 11:29, neilp said:

A teacher is perfectly entitled to make that decision, and they have probably made it on the basis that there Are differences and they don't feel comfortable teaching what they don't know. I have never played an EUB, and I would say the same. I wouldn't teach you on that bass. It's not a snobbery thing. You should be grateful for their integrity

As I said before, any teacher that won't teach you on an EUB isn't a teacher you want if you have an EUB, if it's because they've never played one or just snobbery it doesn't matter really the student will be better off without that teacher, if that teacher can't or won't teach the basics of left and right hand technique of a DB to an EUB player I doubt they'd be great at teaching anyway tbh. 

I use every technique Jake Newman has taught me in the same way on my DB and EUB other than putting my knee behind the body. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by stingrayPete1977

[neilp]

I think what I'm trying to get across is that the two are different instruments, feel entirely different to play and respond differently. The physical challenge is different, the sound is different, response to bow and fingers is different. If a teacher doesn't want to teach you on a EUB, find a different teacher, that much I agree with. Don't rush to judgement though.

[stingrayPete1977]

I don't think they are different enough tbh, certainly not at a beginner level.

But you wouldn't know as you've "never played one", maybe you shouldn't rush your judgement? 😉

[Beer of the Bass]

I owned and played a Bassix EUB for a number of years, and I can see where Neil is coming from, TBH.

[mangotango]

20 hours ago, neilp said:

I think what I'm trying to get across is that the two are different instruments, feel entirely different to play and respond differently. The physical challenge is different, the sound is different, response to bow and fingers is different. If a teacher doesn't want to teach you on a EUB, find a different teacher, that much I agree with. Don't rush to judgement though.

I do get what you are saying, honestly. I had a double bass many years ago, but at the time I didn't have the formal tuition that would have helped me along the way. And now, some 35 years later, I'm trying to make up for lost time by restarting with correct fundamentals.  So I really do understand what you're saying about the different physical challenges, etc.  I can see also that, say a classical guitar teacher might not feel able to help a guy who turns up at his door with a Strat.  And if that's how it had been presented, I'd have been fine with it and moved along. 

However, if I came across as curmudgeonly on this subject, here's why -  there were two specific reactions from prospective teachers that quite simply made me angry. One guy to whom I was introduced at an orchestra performance that I attended was absolutely fine with the prospect of teaching me, quite happily discussing a plan for tuition...right up until I mentioned the electricity involved, and also that it was my intention to play jazz, not orchestral music. His face dropped, his lip curled into a classic condescending sneer. "Oh NO", he said, "I shan't be doing THAT!" And he pretty much turned and walked away. Yeh, thanks mate. The other was a woman of whom I made enquiries over the phone. Again, I got as far as saying "electric upright" and she almost became angry with me, instantly saying "No, no, I can't teach that!" and virtually putting the phone down on me. So those reactions kind of coloured my viewpoint, up until I found my current teacher, whom I met when he was the bass tutor at a jazz course I attended; I was playing bass guitar on that course. He takes the p out of my bass guitars, calling them cricket bats; he wasn't entirely sure about the EUB at first, but accepted it as my "halfway house" once he'd heard it produce a "not too bad for one of those things!" kind of sound. We had a laugh about it, then got on with the lessons.

Much as I'd love to have one, I don't have the space at home for a DB; and on a practical basis, the jazz group in which I'm playing mostly bass guitar has sufficient going on with keyboards and also electronics used on the trumpet, that the EUB will fit in well and be easier to amplify while still giving me something of the right sound and feel. Enough for me at the moment anyway.

[petebassist]

@mangotango I don't blame you for being p!ssed off from the sound of it - they sound like a couple of nobs. One thing though, snobbery aside, with electric uprights there're no standards and so many different types, compared to acoustic instruments e.g. shorter scales, non-concave fingerboards, different body & support styles, so it doesn't surprise me that some tutors would be dismissive. Some EUBs are designed to feel exactly like a (typically 3/4 size) acoustic upright, e.g. the Yamaha, SLB and some are not, e.g. NS Designs. I think from the look of the Bassix, it's probably in the former camp, except for the bouts, but I haven't tried one.

Being a bit let's say person-adverse, I stick to online lessons & a DVD that I learnt from, Ed Friedland's jazz upright bass, which showed me all of the basics. But but keep on looking, you might get lucky and find a brilliant tutor. Good luck mate!